Cutting back on the Patriot Act

Cutting back on the Patriot Act

seattletimes.nwsource.com

With a 94-2 vote, the Senate passed a bill that canceled a Justice Department-authored provision in the Patriot Act that had allowed the attorney general to appoint U.S. attorneys without Senate confirmation. Democrats say the Bush administration abused that authority when it fired the eight prosecutors and proposed replacing some with White House loyalists.

(visit the link for the full news article)

This seems to be a step in a good direction. The Senate overwhelmingly voted to restore some checks and balances in the system. Let's hope this trend continues as more and more abuses contained in the Patriot Act are exposed.

seattletimes.nwsource.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

Let's remember that this cut back is actually a very partisan political move. When the Democrats control House Senate, and the White House, they can easily bring this provision back. I predict that this is the only portion of the Patriot Act that will be redacted before the 2008 elections.

Originally posted by Justin Oldham
Let's remember that this cut back is actually a very partisan political move. When the Democrats control House Senate, and the White House, they can easily bring this provision back. I predict that this is the only portion of the Patriot Act that will be redacted before the 2008 elections.

With the Senate having a makeup of 49 Democrats, 49 Republicans, and 2 independents, I don't think we can call a 94-2 vote partisan. However, you could very well be right about this being the only part of the Patriot Act to be rescinded.

It's a shame that the Patriot Act is not required reading for the members of Congress. It seems it takes a scandal to bring the injustices of the Act to their attention.

Originally posted by Justin Oldham
Let's remember that this cut back is actually a very partisan political move. When the Democrats control House Senate, and the White House, they can easily bring this provision back. I predict that this is the only portion of the Patriot Act that will be redacted before the 2008 elections.

Since when is anything in Washington NOT partisan?This crap is going to go on for ever now...Every administration is going to flip flop this provision. It is a distraction provision for political smoke screening. Watch in the future how this will surface again when Washington wants to distract the American public from some other crap they are pulling!

This is pure duck-and-cover on the Senate's part. And considering what's already been lost, it's peanuts one way or the other.

Here's a handy list from this March 4 NY Times editorial eulogy for the Bill of Rights.

Here's the bullit-point gist:

Restore Habeas Corpus
Ban Torture, Really
Close the C.I.A. Prisons
Account for ‘Ghost Prisoners’
Ban Extraordinary Rendition
Tighten the Definition of Combatant
Screen Prisoners Fairly and Effectively
Ban Tainted Evidence
Ban Secret Evidence
Better Define ‘Classified’ Evidence
Respect the Right to Counsel

There's so much on the table already that reforming the "Patriot" Act and closing Gitmo were tagged on as afterthoughts.

Originally posted by Justin Oldham
When the Democrats control House Senate, and the White House, they can easily bring this provision back.

I'm not so sure it is a given that the next President will be a Democrat for a couple of reasons. First of all a monkey wrench by the name of Rudy Giuliani has been thrown into the works. Secondly I think a lot of voters believe that it is a bad thing to have one party in control of the three branches. That is something I consider at every election and their may be enough like minded people to sway an election.

Regardless of the party in control, I don't think they will ever give up any power once they have acquired it. I see this as more of an attempt to take power away from the Executive Branch and give it to Congress. I believe the reason for the nearly unanimous vote is that this is not a party issue. Senators in general seem to believe the Executive Branch has too much power. I would tend to agree. I think any further changes to the Patriot Act will all be toward that end. I doubt the rights will ever be restored.

Rudy doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell. He is far more liberal than they funnymentalists like... they will never back him any more than us true liberals will back Clinton.

There are a few discussions I'd like to invite you all to take a look at.

This one, which relates to 2008 Conservative candidates. And, this one which is like This one.. All of these have been going on for some time, and I think you might like to participate. Have you seen my stuff?

I don't care if it is partisan; I don't care if it is political posturing; I am glad "they" are taking a look at it and changing it. I hope with all the recent scandals this is not the only area they address.

At the very least, a higher degree of Congressional oversight is necessary to put atleast a minimal check on the current juggernaught of Executive authority. If thre is nobody watching the watchers, we could all be introuble for no good reason.

I'm beginning to wonder if the Patriod Act needs to go altogether. There are too many things about this act that are questionable at best, illegal at worst and by all definitions Unethical.

I hope I'm not straying too far off the topic but:

Are you familiar with the CIA's Secret Renditions?

Wikipedia- Rendition[/url

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A18709-2005Mar8.html]Rendition Realities

What is occouring is Covert opratives from the CIA would go to countries around the world looking for people who they Suspect Might have information related to Terrorism or other threats. Armed men would take the person at gun point into a van and dirve them to a secret airstrip to be put on a plane heading for an undisclosed country. There the person would be forced to give information our government think they know about terrorism or other threats.

What it boils down to is Kidnapping as a method of gathering intelligence! Does anyone else find it scary that the US consideres kidnapping people at Gun Point a Legitimate method of gathering intelligence?

Tim

Does anyone else find it scary that the US consideres kidnapping people at Gun Point a Legitimate method of gathering intelligence

I find it scary that they can "kidnap" someone(in a foreign country or in the USA) ,hold them without council, try them in secret without council, not show them the evidence during the trial, and render judgement , all in secret. If this is not the definition of a police state then what is?

It's too bad that so many people are just now waking up to this. I'm not the only one who has been talking about this subject. I joined the debate in 2004. So many ofthe people who used to kid me are now asking me for answers. While I am glad to see that this topic is being "discovered," at long last...I can't help feeling a little strange when people say, "did you know about this?" That's why we MUST continue to have these discussions. If we don't keep talking about this and other dangerous, thre won't be anything for the people of the future to find and learn from.

It's too bad that so many people are just now waking up to this.

I disagree sir. I am glad more and more people are waking up each day. The more people that realize their constitutional rights can be trampled over; the more the govt will be held accountable for their inaction.

I understand this thread is about the patriot act, but I think the patriot act goes hand in hand with others like.........
the military commissions act....
www.breitbart.com...

WASHINGTON (AP) - The Supreme Court on Monday declined for now to review whether Guantanamo Bay detainees may go to federal court to challenge their indefinite confinement.

The Bush administration argues that because of changes in the law since 2004 there is no need for the justices to hurry. Congress has authorized military hearings to assess whether the prisoners are being properly detained as enemy combatants. Those decisions can be appealed in a limited fashion to the appeals court.

No need to hurry? Read that again no need to hurry. Some of those held at gitmo have been held 5 years without a hearing;but there is no need to hurry. Does everyone realize US citizens can be labeled "enemy combatants". Would anyone in the US be willing to wait 5 years in military prison for a hearing?

I honestly hope congress can get a handle on the civil rights given away in the last 6 years.

we wouldnt be seeing this if there hadnt been so much heat about the firings theyre trying to spin the situation thats all they do is try to use this as a way to make them and theyre party look good

Your point is well made. You'll have to excuse my jaded point of view. I've been carrying this water for quite some time. Ha. I still remember the storm of hate mail that came in when I published my first book. Yikes. You would have thought I was advocating for something obscene. Now, today, I get a different reception. today, I'm welcomed when I got to a public event.

Originally posted by shooterbrody

It's too bad that so many people are just now waking up to this.

I disagree sir. I am glad more and more people are waking up each day. The more people that realize their constitutional rights can be trampled over; the more the govt will be held accountable for their inaction.

I agree with both of you! Shooterbrody, I think Justin's point was that it's a shame that it took so long for people to become aware of the threat. In all that time while people didn't understand what was going on, the dark powers that treaten our freedoms were growing unchecked. Now they are harder to stop then they would have been say 5 or 10 years ago.

However, I also agree with you that it good that people are becoming aware of the danger. Now that more Americans see the growing danger, more people can take action to stop it.

In summery: I'm glad people are becoming aware of the danger, but I wish it had NOT taken people so long to see it!

Tim

Very well said, Tim. I think that ALL of us need to keep talking about these issues. As we meet people who are waking up to the coming crisis, we should be patient and flexible. Even I tend to forget just how long I've been at this. Having said, that, I'll try to do a better job of keeping my onw frustrations in check.