BBC: Israel and Iran share most negative ratings in global poll

Originally posted by Muaddib
Souljah....The U.S. gave biological "samples".... Meanwhile European countries gave Saddam tons, and tons of chemical gas, and other wmd, provided Iraq with nuclear weapons development... Yet like always you keep trying to put all the blame on the U.S.....

So who invaded Iraq?

France?

Oh and lets not forget...you still try to derail the topic when the fact that "France gave Israel it's nuclear weapon program and the nuclear weapons they have".... Everytime you keep trying to ignore this and instead want to keep trying to blame the U.S....

I do not think I said a single word about Israeli Nuclear program and the United States - where did that come form Dude? I am confused.



OK - from now on I shall use the term THE CIVILIZED WEST; which includes countries like:

FRANCE

GERMANY

United Kingdom

United States

And other "Part Time Member" who come when the money is right.

Shall that be satisfactory?

Originally posted by Souljah

So who invaded Iraq?

A coalition of countries did, meanwhile another coalition of countries such as France, Russia, China, Germany and a few others were making billions with illegal deals using the Oil For Food program, which is now known as the OFF scandal and meanwhile over 500,000 Iraqi children under the age of 5 died, and Saddam's regime was murdering tens of thousands more... Those same countries wanted for the sanctions to continue, which would have put the death toll of Iraqi civilians a lot higher than what it is now.

Originally posted by Souljah
I do not think I said a single word about Israeli Nuclear program and the United States - where did that come form Dude? I am confused.

You were again blasting away at the U.S. saying the U.S. has been giving billion of dollars to Israel, and weapons, but you forgot who gave Israel it's nuclear weapons program....

Originally posted by Souljah

And other "Part Time Member" who come when the money is right.

Shall that be satisfactory?

and some "other member" must be either 10 years old, who don't know how to debate, and everytime such a member is losing he has to yell someone is cheating....when noone is, or such "other member" is talking about himself and someone has been paying him to obfuscate topics and lie on forums like this one...

[edit on 10-3-2007 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by Muaddib
A coalition of countries did, meanwhile another coalition of countries such as France, Russia, China, Germany and a few others were making billions with illegal deals using the Oil For Food program, which is now known as the OFF scandal and meanwhile over 500,000 Iraqi children under the age of 5 died, and Saddam's regime was mlurdering tens of thousands more... Those same countries wanted for the sanctions to continue, which would have put the death toll of Iraqi civilians a lot higher than what it is now.

A COALITION?



You mean MIGHTY Military countries like,

Albania
Afghanistan
Azerbaijan
Colombia
El Salvador
Eritrea
Ethiopia
Nicaragua
the Philippines
Uzbekistan
?

WoW! That sure is a MIGHTY and STRONG coalition!

And yet again your pathetic attempt to put USA in the best picture ever, while throw a bad light on every other country in the World; as if United States did NOT make any money with Oil-For-Food Scam! I just want to proove to you (and everybody else), that you should sometimes blame United States too - or shall they throw you out of your current country back to the commie heaven?

US: US charges oil-for-food chief
U.N.: Defiant U.N. Sleuth Hands over Iraq Oil-for-Food Papers to U.S. Congress
USA: Senate Told of Oil-for-Food Bribes
USA: Cheney Made Millions Off Oil Deals with Hussein
Iraq: Bush Conceals Names of U.S. Firms That Paid Kickbacks to Saddam
US: Oil-for-Food Scandal Broadens With New Charges
U.S.A.: The Oil-for-Food Scandal Seeps into Houston
PLENTY WHERE THAT CAME FROM!

Still you just point your fingers at the "Usualy Suspects", who did not want to invade Iraq, based of false documents, lies and deceptions - countries like France, Germany and of course the "Evil Commies" China and Ex-Commies Russia. United States could NEVER do something like they do, right?

You were again blasting away at the U.S. saying the U.S. has been giving billion of dollars to Israel, and weapons, but you forgot who gave Israel it's nuclear weapons program....

At the current rate of USA help to Israel, $15,139,178 of US taxpayers money goes to Israel EVERY DAY! And I think every American Taxpayer should know the following FACTS:

U.S. Aid to Israel: What U.S. Taxpayer Should Know

Most Americans are not aware how much of their tax revenue our government sends to Israel. For the fiscal year ending in September 30, 1997, the U.S. has given Israel $6.72 billion: $6.194 billion falls under Israel's foreign aid allotment and $526 million comes from agencies such as the Department of Commerce, the U.S. Information Agency and the Pentagon. The $6.72 billion figure does not include loan guarantees and annual compound interest totalling $3.122 billion the U.S. pays on money borrowed to give to Israel. It does not include the cost to U.S. taxpayers of IRS tax exemptions that donors can claim when they donate money to Israeli charities. (Donors claim approximately $1 billion in Federal tax deductions annually. This ultimately costs other U.S. tax payers $280 million to $390 million.)

When grant, loans, interest and tax deductions are added together for the fiscal year ending in September 30, 1997, our special relationship with Israel cost U.S. taxpayers over $10 billion.

Since 1949 the U.S. has given Israel a total of $83.205 billion. The interest costs borne by U.S. tax payers on behalf of Israel are $49.937 billion, thus making the total amount of aid given to Israel since 1949 $133.132 billion. This may mean that U.S. government has given more federal aid to the average Israeli citizen in a given year than it has given to the average American citizen.

So has France given 133.1332 BILLION USD to Israel?

and some "other member" must be either 10 years old, who don't know how to debate, and everytime such a member is losing he has to yell someone is cheating....when noone is, or such "other member" is talking about himself and someone has been paying him to obfuscate topics and lie on forums like this one...

What was that Dude?

Are you loosing?

Cheaing?

Lying?

I think you should stop doing that.

It makes Jesus not happy.

Extremist?
Dude - you do not know me at all!
But very well - you are entitled to your opinion anyway.

Dude, Anyone who lives in a different continent and passes judgment on a regional conflict that he has no experience with but adopts the stance of one side hook line and sinker is an extremist. Your Talmud quotes you incessantly repeat even after I explained to you that they are fabricated, taken out of context or mistranslated means that you are a bigoted extremist as well.

Yebamoth 98a. All gentile children are animals.

Talmud is a series of Rabbinical laws, discussions, biblical interpretations and lore written throughout history. Yebamoth comes from the Babylonian Talmud if I am not mistaken and was written in 400-700 AD. It is a compilation of rabbinical laws written during that time. I think the original language for these writings was Aramaic.

The above quote (from what I understood) is written in the context of relations between a man and a woman. Jews are allowed only to marry other Jews. Relations with a non-Jew is forbidden but does not have any legal standing in Jewish law. That is why reference to non-Jews in this context is explained as referenced to animals.
Tasteless, but that was the form of language at the time. Remember that this is during the onset of Christianity when Judaism was pretty much banned and Jewish persecution was very much alive.
Some Talmudic verses have since been removed from the Talmud since it was provocative and in bad taste. Rabbis found it no longer suitable.

Talmud explicitly states that Jews and Non-Jews are equal and were created in the image of G-d. If you wish you can educate yourself on someone who knows about Judaism more than missionislam.com, revisionisthistrory.org or davidduke.com - the site is here
Talmud is mostly followed by the Orthodox (some of which are those those nice anti-Zionists you love so much). Conservatives and Reform Jews give it a lower standing - those 'Extremists' leaders in Israel (who are actually mostly secular).

Ariel Sharon was a corrupt leader who looked after his own self interest on the other hand he was a brave military leader who saved Israel during the 1973 war. He was definitely a controversial figure. Those quotes though are plainly fraudulent. Too bad you are too narrow minded to read through the CAMERA explanation and make a fool of yourself - Here is the
actual retraction

Yeah? You sure? How many Palestinians do you know? Have you seen where they live? Have you ever been to Palestine? Have you seen the Ghetto of Gaza Strip or West Bank? Do you think they are living in good conditions? Are their basic Human Rights granted? Are they not living under MILITARY occupation? As far as I know, more than 2704 houses in the Gaza strip has been completely . . . . . . Approximately 656 businesses, factories, or schools have been destroyed or damaged in the Gaza strip.

Yeah such a nice "Home" they have...

Actually I was in the West Bank on a few occasions, some during my military stint. I was stationed by Nabalus on guard duty by a Jewish settlement. I also went to buy items in Bidia. The houses I saw where more spacious and nicer than my own. But that's a different story. Military occupation is no fun. Palestinian conditions were better BEFORE the Palestinian Authority (this from the mouth of Palestinian workmen who I had assist me renovate my house 8 years ago - Before the Intifadeh). Now their life is hell - You will of course blame Israel - Shame on those world dominating ZIONISTS who dare to act against Palestinian militants to curb attacks on those demonic Jews.

I see it differently - Palestinian life would have been better if their war (terrorist) ambitions would be curbed. No peace will come in parallel to Terrorism. Get that message back to your Arab patrons.

Your news postings from one sided media outlets shows your bias. As if since 2000 the Palestinians did not initiate a war of terror on Israel which has lasted 7 years already. As if no Israeli casualties occurred during this time. This is a war which the Palestinians placed the cross-hairs on the Israeli civilians. You see it with the daily rocket barrages on Israeli cities and towns, the suicide bombings against Jewish civilians and the Palestinian leadership's double talk against suicide bombers in English and for them in Arabic.
My heart goes out to the Palestinian innocents killed in combat (something I have yet to hear from you regarding Israeli casualties) but this is a combat the Palestinian leadership chose to engage in. Israel cannot sit by and let terrorist aggression.

Build the fence, arrest wanted suspects, kill terrorist leaders. These measure have proven effective. When the Palestinians decide they want peace they will stop their terrorist campaign and start in dialog. Currently there is no-one to speak to with Hamas at the wheel!

At the current rate of USA help to Israel, $15,139,178 of US taxpayers money goes to Israel EVERY DAY! And I think every American Taxpayer should know the following FACTS:

Dude! this is 1997 figures - 10 years ago!!! Hello! Much has changed since. Iraq receives a wad of cash from the US in 2004 it was 18Billion USDs.
Israel is currently receiving less than 2.5Billion in aid mostly credit that it needs to spend on US military hardware.
That's the US firms making a pretty penny.
That's security for Israel.
That's a secure US ally in the world's hot spot.

That one pissed off Slovenian forum member that needs to get his figures up to date.

Originally posted by JudahMaccabbi
Dude, Anyone who lives in a different continent and passes judgment on a regional conflict that he has no experience with but adopts the stance of one side hook line and sinker is an extremist.

So basicly all Americans and Europeans who pass judgement on the regional conflict in Iraq and Afganistan, are extremists?

Some Talmudic verses have since been removed from the Talmud since it was provocative and in bad taste. Rabbis found it no longer suitable.

Well I can certainly see why.

But there are lots of quotes from Rabbis, which are very, very offensive towards an entire Islamic religion and if I would not know better, I would say they are racist.

Talmud explicitly states that Jews and Non-Jews are equal and were created in the image of G-d.

But how? I really do not get it after reading this kind of quotes:

Only Jews are human. [Gentiles] are animals. (Baba Mezia 114a-114b.)

Even the best of the [Gentiles] should be killed. (Babylonian Talmud)

If a heathen [Gentile] hits a Jew, the Gentile must be killed. Hitting a Jew is hitting God. (Sanhedrin 58b.

For murder, whether of a Cuthean [Gentile] by a Cuthean, or of an Israelite by a Cuthean, punishment is incurred; but of a Cuthean by an Israelite, there is no death penalty. (Sanhedrin 57a)

The words are pretty clear written.

Talmud is mostly followed by the Orthodox (some of which are those those nice anti-Zionists you love so much). Conservatives and Reform Jews give it a lower standing - those 'Extremists' leaders in Israel (who are actually mostly secular).

From David Duke:

The Talmud is to this day the circulating heart's blood of the Jewish religion. Whatever laws, customs, or ceremonies we observe - whether we are orthodox, Conservative, Reform or merely spasmodic sentimentalists - we follow the Talmud. It is our common law.

Hmmmmmmmmmm....

Kind of does not agree with your writings. Isn't Talmud in Your blood too?

I see it differently - Palestinian life would have been better if their war (terrorist) ambitions would be curbed. No peace will come in parallel to Terrorism. Get that message back to your Arab patrons.

I do not have any Arab patrons.

I know time is very late for Peace in Middle East right now - but there is always Hope as they say, and I think there shall be someday really PEACE in this lands, I really do think so. I just do not know when, since as things are looking today, it could take a long time.

And if you wish to know, why the Palestinians are still resisting, maybe it is because they are still considering their life, a life under Military occupation. A life in big prison - a life in a Ghetto; something the Jewish people should know better, then to do that same thing, which was once done to them, upon other people. If you would have been born under military occupation, only G knows what you have done - I do not know for myself, but I do know, I would not be the same person as I am now, living mostly in Peace and with a roof over my head, without tanks on the streets and without military jets doing soonic booms over my head (which I know how bad it sounds).

Your news postings from one sided media outlets shows your bias.

Media Bias is usually hiding the deaths of Palestinian kids - as I have prooven numerous times, death of a Palestinian is very UNDER reported - while death of an Israeli is usually OVER reported. And you and I both know that Pro-Jewish, Pro-Zionist lobbies own more then just Washington - they own several mass media, like newspapers, websites, tv stations; and also several think tanks, who tell them what is right and what is wrong.

122 Israeli children have been killed by Palestinians and 869 Palestinian children have been killed by Israelis since September 29, 2000 - how many do you think have been reported? 1,020 Israelis and at least 4,057 Palestinians have been killed since September 29, 2000 - how many do you think have been reported? 7,633 Israelis and 31,267 Palestinians have been injured since September 29, 2000 - how many do you think have been reported?

Not to mention, that 0 Israeli homes have been demolished by Palestinians and 4,170 Palestinian homes have been demolished by Israel since September 29, 2000. And of course, 60+ new Jewish-only settlements have been built on confiscated Palestinian land between March 2001 and July 11, 2003. There have been 0 cases of Palestinians confiscating Israeli land and building settlements. So how do you expect these people to be silent, lay down and die like dogs in ghettos, with their land taken, their parents probably dead, and without any job, money or future? People usually resort to desperate actions out of desperation - not out of boredom, or because they want to do it, but because they have no other exit left.

My heart goes out to the Palestinian innocents killed in combat (something I have yet to hear from you regarding Israeli casualties)...

My Heart goes to EVERY Innocent Killed ANYWHERE. You really do not know me at all, and with statements like this you are just showing that. I would just love to know what you really think of me, and then go for a beer with you.

Iraq receives a wad of cash from the US in 2004 it was 18Billion USDs.

Too bad most if this money gets stolen...

Israel is currently receiving less than 2.5Billion in aid mostly credit that it needs to spend on US military hardware.

So let us see:

U.S. Financial Aid To Israel: Figures, Facts, and Impact


Recently Americans have begun to read and hear that “Israel receives $3 billion in annual U.S. foreign aid.” That's true. But it's still a lie. The problem is that in fiscal 1997 alone, Israel received from a variety of other U.S. federal budgets at least $525.8 million above and beyond its $3 billion from the foreign aid budget, and yet another $2 billion in federal loan guarantees. So the complete total of U.S. grants and loan guarantees to Israel for fiscal 1997 was $5,525,800,000.

Probably the only members of Congress who even suspect the full total of U.S. funds received by Israel each year are the privileged few committee members who actually mark it up. And almost all members of the concerned committees are Jewish, have taken huge campaign donations orchestrated by Israel's Washington, DC lobby, the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), or both. These congressional committee members are paid to act, not talk. So they do and they don't.

AIPAC, in turn, can draw upon the resources of the Conference of Presidents of Major American Jewish Organizations, a roof group set up solely to coordinate the efforts of some 52 national Jewish organizations on behalf of Israel.


Perhaps the most controversial of these groups is B’nai B’rith’s Anti-Defamation League. Its original highly commendable purpose was to protect the civil rights of American Jews. Over the past generation, however, the ADL has regressed into a conspiratorial and, with a $45 million budget, extremely well funded hate group.

In the 1980s, during the tenure of chairman Seymour Reich, who went on to become chairman of the Conference of Presidents, ADL was found to have circulated two annual fund-raising letters warning Jewish parents against allegedly negative influences on their children arising from the increasing Arab presence on American university campuses.

More recently, FBI raids on ADL’s Los Angeles and San Francisco offices revealed that an ADL operative had purchased files stolen from the San Francisco police department that a court had ordered destroyed because they violated the civil rights of the individuals on whom they had been compiled. ADL, it was shown, had added the illegally prepared and illegally obtained material to its own secret files, compiled by planting informants among Arab-American, African-American, anti-Apartheid and peace and justice groups.

What a nice company?

And SO WHAT if this figures are 10 years old - that does not deny the fact, that Israel has costed American Taxpayers $134.8 billion (not adjusted for inflation)? Actually now that 10 years passed, I Soguess we should add a couple of billions more ey? Also, on this basis the $84.8 billion in grants, loans and commodities Israel has received from the U.S. since 1949 cost the U.S. an additional $49,936,880,000 in interest. Now I do not live in United States, but if I would I would sure be, one pissed off taxpayer!

And those numbers for just for my friend Muaddib, who was pointing out how France helped Isreal in all those years, and I just wanted to point out, how much money really got out of USA...

So basicly all Americans and Europeans who pass judgement on the regional conflict in Iraq and Afganistan, are extremists?

No, I said

Anyone who lives in a different continent and passes judgment on a regional conflict that he has no experience with but adopts the stance of one side hook line and sinker is an extremist

.

You are adopting all the stances of the Palestinians without thinking for a second that maybe there are two sides to a coin.
Fact is you support right to return which will provide the Arab world with what they wanted since the beginning - THE DESTRUCTION of ISRAEL.
That is extremist.
You voiced your bigotted opinion on the Talmud when you have no idea what it is. That is Extremist.
You take David Duke's (A white supremist, ex-KKK Grand wizard) word over mine regarding Talmud. That is a laugh - wait were is that icon - oh here->

You want explanations on Talmud - go to the link I provided. It is from a Rabbi who is VERY familiar with Talmud. I studied Talmud very briefly in Hebrew school. Normally, in schoolm, Bible is taugh extensively and Talmud referenced only rarely. Orthodox Jews learn Bible first (since it is the basis of Jewish beliefs) and Talmud only later.

Talmud does not degrade Islam (mostly because Islam did not threaten Judaism during the time it was written). Some Modern day extremist Rabbis may have said derogatory things against Islam but so have Islamic Immams (about Jews - Jews are Dogs and Pigs), Catholic leaders (the pope for example against Islam - Mohamed brought only violence) and a variety of religions against one another.

Regarding Media bias - I have Spanish who during the uprisings would say that according to Spanish news (for example) such or such terrorist attack never happened and only showed the Israeli response.
In Italy similar occurance were noted. Another thing that bothered me was that SKY or BBC would provide more time for voicing the Arab side of the arguement and much less for the Israeli side.

Palestinian homes were destroyed if it was used as a staging ground for terrorist military actions, smuggling of weapons or the house of a suicide bomber. You said that 0 Israeli homes were destroyed - this is innaccurate Qassam missles have damaged and destroyed homes as well as killed civilians (these were aimed at residential areas).

Gaza was totally emptied of Jews and soldiers and the crossings to Egypt is NOT under Israeli control - for all intents and purposes there is NO OCCUPATION in GAZA. The GAZANs in response have attacked Israel non-stop, used the open borders to obtain more weapons, explosives and transfer Syrian, Hebzbullah and Iranian agents to and from the GAZA. OCCUPATION is an exuse. What the Palestinians want is Israel destroyed.

Regaring American aid. I am sure that most Americans wish to see a strong Israel. I know this because in the 19 years I lived in the States I experienced much appreciation of Americans toward Israel. Israel and the US have a very special relationship. Something I am sure you despise.
Personnally I am very proud of my dual citizenship and both the great countries I lived in.

Originally posted by JudahMaccabbi

Originally posted by Souljah

Originally posted by JudahMaccabbi
Tell me Souljah,
when you say 1% are extremists, from what study did you pick-up that statistic? Is it based on something or just a hunch.

Honestly - it is a Hunch, and usually my Hunch is 99% right.

And that is not just my opinion.

It is too bad that you deceive yourself. I tried to explain to you that there is a difference between the citizens of a totalitarian state and a democratic state. The media in democratic state provides various views (although not always balanced) but totalitarian (and theocratic) states give only their own views. I provided evidence that there is much support for OBL and his extremism in the Arab/Muslim world but you refuse to SEE it. too bad.

Yeah the people in a free society are free where as the people in a not free society are not free! that is what is different any way I am talking about Iran as you are obviously lumping Iran with everyone else.

I can tell you that there is almost to non zilch zero support for OBL in Iran!!!

[edit on 10/3/07 by JudahMaccabbi]

Offcourse you again. Iranians are first Persian then Muslim. Please don't lump them with all the other Muslims because the majority of them are different.