In Black and White - Race Questions

Originally posted by phoenixhasrisin
I however am not one to pretend that life is all "flowers and sausages", so to speak

That was hilarious! Thanks!

I'm not "pretending". In every circumstance, there are REAL "flowers and sausages" and there are REAL "poop and brussel sprouts". I'm just saying that a habit can develop of focusing on the P&BS just as a habit can develop of noticing, acknowledging and appreciating the sausages.

Where I spend more time directly affects my overall outlook and attitude. I know people who, in ANY situation will go right for the poop and brussel sprouts every time. It's something I can "predict" ahead of time. And they're pretty miserable people. That's all I'm saying.

There are more foreigners per head in any country than of the indiginous poulation. No point tryna anaylse it all now racist or not!

Originally posted by happinness
There are more foreigners per head in any country than of the indiginous poulation.

Interesting observation. I never thought about that. Thanks.

No point tryna anaylse it all now racist or not!

Oh! If only I weren't so darn analytical, sometimes, though! But I am. I love it. Whether there's a point to it or not, I love to analyze things.

Originally posted by phoenixhasrisin

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I'm told that I'm fortunate that I don't "have" to think about race. But nobody does. It's always a choice.

I think you are fortunate, from what I have seen most people do consider their race a central part of their identity.

After running this by my husband (as I am wont to do) I have a little more to say. I AM fortunate in that it's easier for me (as a white person in the US) to choose not to have race as a central part of my identity than it would be for - say - a black or mixed-race person to choose. It's one of the privileges in this country of being white. It's easier. And it's still a choice.

Just as its easier for a Hispanic person to choose not to have HIS race as a central part of his identity in the town where I live. In the accident I had the other day, all the cops and about 4 paramedics who showed up, were of other races. So, depending who a person is surrounded by, the choice is either easier or harder. (And I know it's not as simple as that. There are added issues of being "black in America" regardless who one sees on a daily basis.)

That's something I've started to notice since being involved in race threads. Other People's Race. I honestly never noticed before... But now I do. I'm not sure I like the fact that I notice more now or not. But we have a lot more black people in my town than I had ever noticed before!

BH,

Great thread. Why am I so late to find it?

Anyway,

To answer some of your questions, I'd like to direct you to my family. I've got an older brother who is now pushing thirty. He's half black, half white, same as me. He's dating an awesome girl from South Carolina who is white.

I have a younger sister, who is also black/white who is dating a white man from Mauritius (a small Island off the coast of Madagascar). He's cool too. She used to date this Pakistani guy from Texas. I couldn't stand him. Not because he was Pakistani, but because he was a verbally and emotionally abusive douchebag. But that was a few years ago.

My youngest sister is fully white, and she is dating a white boy. One of them clean cut kind you find in the store. He's one of my best friends, and again, totally cool.

I, myself, am black/white, and my girlfriend is black/white (and foxy) .
Her sister is also black/white, and is currently dating a white girl.

All I can say is, if race were a problem, family reunions would be rather problematic.

In regards to my life as a grey child (black/white mix) I'd say the biggest problems I had were from my extended family (grandparents, cousins, aunts and uncles). They seemed to have more interest in the development of my all white counterparts. My Aunt was always considered the good child, and my mother was considered the one who had the mulatto children. The jibber jabber in Worcester MA was horrible that way. It didn't matter how many masters degrees and doctorates she got, my mom was always the one with the black children.

On my father's side it was the same thing (almost). The children who received the most attention from the family were the ones who were all black. I guess things are more similar between Worcester MA and Antigua than many think.

As it is now, I don't think anyone really cares that I'm grey, just that I am who I am.

As for my children, when I have them, I hope them the best. I hope they find people who they love, and who love them. And I can guarantee that I won't like anyone who my daughter brings home, whether white, black, Hispanic, or Zeta Reticulan.

Great thread BH

Originally posted by phoenixhasrisin

Originally posted by HarlemHottie
I feel sorry for them.

That's odd, because I have honestly started to feel sorry for those of "pure" race.

Allow me to clarify. Upon re-reading, I see that could have been taken offensively, but I was running out of space and couldn't really add any more.

I don't naturally feel sorry for them. I feel sorry for them because the people I knew seemed so internally conflicted. As someone who's always been comfortable in her own skin, I couldn't understand their confusion. The way I saw it was, you're whichever race you were raised. Like, if you were closer to your mom than your dad, spent more time with her family than his, etc, you would naturally, I thought, consider yourself to be her race, culturally anyway.

Did that make sense?

Of course, these are just the thoughts of a- what did you call it?- "pure race," so what would I know? (Although, I feel a little Nazi-ish typing that. And, also, it's wrong, because I'm not "pure," but I'll go with it, for the sake of conversation.)

I see what a crutch it is for most people

How would one use being black as a crutch? Out of curiosity...

Thankfully race can never be "central to my identity".

Trust me, it isn't by choice. People remind you everyday. I remember when I was little, and could forget, or not think about it for days. That was nice. Paradise lost.

Those few do sound like a sad bunch, give me an hour, and I'd help them discover their inner high yellow.

I would be happy to, but, alas, we're out of touch. Her apparent pain really upset me, though. I'm the kind of friend who would sit up all night with you, dealing with your problems, the night before a final, so... yeah, I really did want to help her find peace with herself, but I didn't know how.

ps, phoenix, I just noticed where you are. I don't sing, but this is for you: "Just hit the east side of the LBC, on a mission trynna find Mr. Warren G..."

[edit on 14-3-2007 by HarlemHottie]

Originally posted by HarlemHottie
Did that make sense?

It makes sense, and I am not trying to deny that many people of mixed race struggle with their racial identities, however, I feel that it has more to do with the frustrations of not living up to others expectations of race, more than it has to do with personal feelings of racial ambiguity.

Does that make sense?

Of course, these are just the thoughts of a- what did you call it?- "pure race," so what would I know? (Although, I feel a little Nazi-ish typing that. And, also, it's wrong, because I'm not "pure," but I'll go with it, for the sake of conversation.)

No one is really, which is why I put it in quotations.

How would one use being black as a crutch? Out of curiosity...

One way is to pull the race card when it is unnecessary to do so.

People remind you everyday. I remember when I was little, and could forget, or not think about it for days. That was nice. Paradise lost.

It's as if you are telling me something that I don't know, hell, the most frequent question I have heard in my life has been..."What are you?"

What is it they say about it being better to have loved and lost?

ps, phoenix, I just noticed where you are. I don't sing, but this is for you: "Just hit the east side of the LBC, on a mission trynna find Mr. Warren G..."

Thank you so much. Would you believe me if I told you that someone recently asked me if that stood for "Lower British Columbia"?

[edit on 15-3-2007 by phoenixhasrisin]

Mixed Race Couples:

What do you think about mixed race couples? Do you approve? Are you uncomfortable when you see them?
Mixed couples are very common in today's society. Seeing them has absolutely no effect on me. I dont view anyone as a color but as a person like me you and everyone else. So in other words I APPROVE!

Does it matter if it’s a black man with a white woman or a white man with a black woman? Does that make a difference?
No it doesnt make a difference at all.

Would you date a person of another race? Would you marry a person of another race? Any and all other races? If not, why not?
I currently am with someone of the opposite race to me and I love her more than anything.

Kids of Mixed Race:

When you see a mixed race person, what do you think and how do you feel? Are you intrigued? Think nothing of it? Feel sorry for them? Envious?
I think nothing of it.

If your son or daughter wanted to date a person outside his/her race, would you support them? Caution them? How would you feel? Would some races be more acceptable than others?
I would support them 100% but i would also caution them that there are people out there who would do anything in their power to make them see otherwise.

Racial Hatred and Slurs:

In your opinion, are all racial slurs the same? Is a white calling a black "tar baby" the same as a black calling a white "Miss Scarlett" if the same intent is in both? (That intent being to hate on and slam someone because of their race.)
A racial slur is bad anyway you look at it.

Is “racial hatred” worse than other kinds of hatred? Why or why not?
All hatred is the same.

Are racial slurs worse than slurs based on other factors (like gender, profession, sexual preference, etc.)
No

If you heard the slurs "Miss Scarlett", "slop eating swine", "The Lyncher", “male chauvinist pig”, “jungle bunny”, "fat lazy pig" and "tar baby" all hurled with the same venom and intent, are they the same? Which are worse and why?
All the same

General

Do you think most people have similar views to yours when it comes to race and race relations?
Honestly i think their are more racists people in today's world .

Do you think other people are generally more or less racist than you are?
Im not racists.

Do you consider yourself somewhat racist? Not very racist? Totally open and accepting to other races? Very racist? Totally open and accepting to other races.

In regards to a point HH made earlier regarding black men and homely white women. I know exactly what you mean. I've seen it more times than I can count. I have to admit that it happened with me once. I can honestly say though, that this was one of the only relationships that I had been in where I cared more about personality and intelligence than about looks. She was an Ivy Leaguer and I was a townie. We had a lot of very in depth conversations about all types of stuff.

I eventually dumped her because I found out that she thought of me as the trophy hot BF, and I thought that was BS. We're still friends though. Not the only time I dated a white woman, but the only time I dated a homely white woman. Date a girl for intelligence and conversation? Never again. Only hotties for me thanks

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
In regards to a point HH made earlier regarding black men and homely white women. I know exactly what you mean.

I've seen it more times than I can count. I have to admit that it happened with me once. I can honestly say though, that this was one of the only relationships that I had been in where I cared more about personality and intelligence than about looks. She was an Ivy Leaguer and I was a townie. We had a lot of very in depth conversations about all types of stuff.

I eventually dumped her because I found out that she thought of me as the trophy hot BF, and I thought that was BS. We're still friends though. Not the only time I dated a white woman, but the only time I dated a homely white woman. Date a girl for intelligence and conversation?

Never again. Only hotties for me thanks

I can relate, Ras.

But, seeing as I've...associated with white girls substantially more than dated them, I haven't had to worry about relationships too much. I learned a long time ago it's MUCH easier this way.

But, in defense of these brothers you speak of, not ALL of them go with ugly white girls. A lot of them do, though, tis true.

Originally posted by truthseeka
But, in defense of these brothers you speak of, not ALL of them go with ugly white girls. A lot of them do, though, tis true.

Yeah I never got that, every time I see that I'm like "WTF?" You don't need that... If the tables were reversed I wouldn't do it just for the sake of it...

Originally posted by WestPoint23

Originally posted by truthseeka
But, in defense of these brothers you speak of, not ALL of them go with ugly white girls. A lot of them do, though, tis true.

Yeah I never got that, every time I see that I'm like "WTF?" You don't need that... If the tables were reversed I wouldn't do it just for the sake of it...

I know, right?

Waking up to an ugly white girl after a kegger is one thing (hey, it happens ), but parading one around like she's a trophy is another. Do it for looks for sure, not just to say "I got me a white girl." Take a lesson from many black pro athletes...

Mixed Race Couples:
What do you think about mixed race couples? Do you approve? Are you uncomfortable when you see them?

Not in the slightest, I'd be a hypocrite if I was! I know many mixed race couples and I think it makes life more interesting.

Would you date a person of another race? Would you marry a person of another race? Any and all other races? If not, why not?


I already have, my wife is Japanese. Never mind the difference in race, try the difference in cultures!! Many people ask me why I married a Japanese person or what made me choose a Japanese wife over a Western wife. I always have to say I married my wife not her race. I love her for the person she is and not for any other reason.

Kids of Mixed Race
When you see a mixed race person, what do you think and how do you feel? Are you intrigued? Think nothing of it? Feel sorry for them? Envious?


I look forward to sharing the joy of two vibrant but wholly different cultures, Japanese and Irish. They can only balance each other out really! We might make a sane person between us!

I do feel some anxiety about bringing mixed-race kids into the world. In Japan, they would be known as 'halfs' but I prefer to think of them as 'doubles' Every parent feels protective of their kids though and I would think they would always worry their kids would get on in life no matter what.


If your son or daughter wanted to date a person outside his/her race, would you support them? Caution them? How would you feel? Would some races be more acceptable than others?


I hope they do and I hope they invite them and their families home to meet me. Our families have had nothing but very positive experiences reaching across the divide to share cultures.

I think the problems come from over-familiarity perhaps. Once the lustre of uniqueness wears off a particular race they are open to the projection of fears and ignorance by a different race.

Besides, I always remember the weird saying that the race you hate the most is the race your daughter will marry. Fate has a weird way of turning around and biting you in the arse.

Racial Hatred and Slurs:
In your opinion, are all racial slurs the same?


I have been on the crappy end of the racism stick many times and I can tell you I didn't enjoy it. I learned to get over and beyond it though. It did force me to re-examine my views of other races and how I deal with them. The golden rule of treat people like you would be liked to be treated yourself stands tall.

Racial slurs come from weakness, lack of confidence and ignorance. Same as all other insults and slurs. In other words, sticks and stones...


Is “racial hatred” worse than other kinds of hatred? Why or why not?


This is where I get off the PC train I am afraid. I have seen the traits in races that earn them the slurs that are so widely thrown about. I have gotten the whole 'foreigners are lazy, stupid, loud, drunk and violent' shtick off the Japanese and then get some idiot come and prove it to them that foreigners were all those things while I am being the good little diplomat trying to convince them otherwise.

There are idiots in every race and it is thanks to them that we get a bad name. I cringe every time I hear the drinking and fighting Irish jibes, but then I drink and I am a martial artist who likes a good fight. Makes things confusing.....

General
Do you think most people have similar views to yours when it comes to race and race relations?


Yes. I find the Japanese and the Irish to be on the same wavelength as each other when it comes to outsiders. Though considering how I was accepted in Japan, I feel this has more to do with familiarity and agreement on common views rather than anything to do with race.

I hate being PC instead of being honest but my views on other races are made from meeting many members of that particular race and find each one of them reinforcing my view as being true. Sometimes my views are less than positive but for the most part I haven't met a race I would dislike to the point of hatred.

I have a particular dislike for one race though which is borne through meeting many different individuals in different places who were all equally as irritating and arrogant as their fellows. I hope every day I will meet someone from that race to prove me wrong about them. I am sadly still waiting though.Does this make me a racist!?!!?! OMG!


Do you think other people are generally more or less racist than you are?
Do you consider yourself somewhat racist? Not very racist? Totally open and accepting to other races? Very racist?


I am racist in the POV that I have come to dislike certain races from multiple dealings with them. An unpopular view perhaps, but this thread is all about honest opinions right?

Originally posted by howmuchisthedoggy
There are idiots in every race and it is thanks to them that we get a bad name. I cringe every time I hear the drinking and fighting Irish jibes, but then I drink and I am a martial artist who likes a good fight. Makes things confusing.....

Sorry... I had a good chuckle at this one. Maybe it's the third Gin and Tonic. But my Irish/Polish/German blood... awww hell... You get where my joke was going I hope! Wanna fight?

Originally posted by phoenixhasrisin
Does that make sense?

Of course, it makes sense. You would know better than I. I couldn't possibly understand your experience with race in this country. I barely "understand" mine.

One way is to pull the race card when it is unnecessary to do so.

I've been hearing that a lot lately. The question then becomes, who gets to choose when it's unnecessary or not?

But, back to this 'using race as a crutch' thing... In my opinion, race is the handicap. The crutch, if it exists, would be those rapidly dissipating AA programs.

It's as if you are telling me something that I don't know

It wasn't my intent to make you feel that way.

Would you believe me if I told you that someone recently asked me if that stood for "Lower British Columbia"?

Hahaha. Yes, I would believe it. It's an international site, and the majority of the Americans here don't seem like the type to listen to Nate Dogg... although, as always, I could be wrong.

howmuchisthedoggy, my friend... It's so good to see you posting! You're one of my favorites (in spite of that drunken Irish thing... ) Now, may I request a PODcast so your wondrous voice can lull me???

Anyway!

Originally posted by howmuchisthedoggy
Never mind the difference in race, try the difference in cultures!!

I know! I learned SO much from dating outside my culture! It's fascinating!

We might make a sane person between us!

I have no doubt, whatsoever!

I hope they do and I hope they invite them and their families home to meet me.

You know, I don't have kids, but I think I would almost wish for them to date a wide variety of people, including all races and cultures just for the experience and life lessons.

Racial slurs come from weakness, lack of confidence and ignorance. Same as all other insults and slurs.

I couldn't agree more!

This is where I get off the PC train I am afraid.

I hate that train! It's all bumpy...

I cringe every time I hear the drinking and fighting Irish jibes, but then I drink and I am a martial artist who likes a good fight. Makes things confusing.....

Honestly, stereotypes aren't created in a vacuum. There's some truth to them. That's how they come into being. The danger comes in applying them to everyone in a group. In other words, being prejudiced.

I am racist in the POV that I have come to dislike certain races from multiple dealings with them. An unpopular view perhaps, but this thread is all about honest opinions right?

Thank you for your honesty! And again, it's so good to 'see' you!