Evidence of 6 million Jewish deaths

I have been called a 'holocaust denier' because I believe the number 6 million is an exageration.
I know the holocaust happened.
I know it was horrible.
I DONT KNOW how accurate the figures are.

I am not an anti-semite or any type of supremist.
I like to be informed.
If somebody can give me some hard evidence that 6 million is accurate I would be willing to accept it.
Please lets not discuss the various aspects of how or why, all I want is some evidence to back the claim of 6 million.

It's a lost cause trying to braoch the whole subject. In many places it can get you imprisoned. It's nearing thought crime potential to even quietly question the "official" figures and "facts". Even when they are disputed by Jewish scholars, although none of them have yet been jailed for questioning or studying the events, that's reserved for us gentiles

Seriously, playing the Holocaust Denier or Anti-Semite card is nothing more than a pathetic response designed to kill all debate on the subject. I have my own opinions but can't even be bothered to discuss them these days as it's a pointless exercise.

www.ushmm.org has some pretty good info. as to the exact figure, well, you know that there wasn't a formal headcount but if you take what is available you can come to a fairly decent estimate.

Hoess himself signed an affadavit attesting to the extermination of 2 million jews via gassing and another half million by "other means"

www.ushmm.org...

let's assume the number there is closer to 2 million than to 2.5. That's 2 years at Auschwitz alone. There were other camps that had similar numbers. the math adds up.


here's a link to an article about combating holocaust deniers.
www.ushmm.org...
I'm not accusing you of such so don't get your panties in a bunch. The link provides evidence and more links.



[edit on 2-3-2007 by Crakeur]

Somewhat hard considering many documentation that would solve this arguement were destroyed by various groups and people. People seeking the truth have used pre-war census records and comparing them to post-war census information. Using this number alone, estimates have exceeded five million. I reiterate that many documents have been destroyed by various groups, from allied bombings and orders from Nazi officials.. Not to mention those who were not documented at all..

I'd like to say that there are at least four million documented people have perished at the hands of the Nazis. Names and documents can be found at: www.yadvashem.org...

EXISTENCE and 6,000,000 DEATHS

Isn't this a classic OXYMORON?

Originally posted by 11Bravo
If somebody can give me some hard evidence that 6 million is accurate I would be willing to accept it.

www1.yadvashem.org...
We estimate that Yad Vashem currently has somewhat more than four million names of victims that are accessible

And cites these authors/historians, amoung others:

The Destruction of the European Jews by Prof. Raul Hilberg
Encyclopedia of the Holocaust - by Prof. Israel Gutman and Dr. Robert Rozett
The Holocaust - Wolfgang Benz



[edit on 2-3-2007 by Nygdan]

Wow I didn't realize there were two threads about the holocaust running in this particular forum. I just posted something about the importance of establishing the number of 6 million deaths in the other thread. I'm not sure how to link it here and I don't think it would be wise to repost it and waste space. Basically I'm working on the hypothesis that 6 million is an important number based on religious texts saying that 6 million need to die to justify the establishment of a return to the homeland. If anyone can enlighten me as to how I'm mistaken I'd love to hear it.

Just to clarify, I know that the suffering endured was horrible and any number of deaths is not a good thing. My point is that the numbers could possible have been manipulated for ignoble purposes.

Originally posted by Kwyjibo
I'm working on the hypothesis that 6 million is an important number based on religious texts saying that 6 million need to die to justify the establishment of a return to the homeland

And how would that, even if it were true, somehow make the evidence FOR the holocaust, and for it actually being around 6 million deaths, vanish?

Are you going to say that everyone that has studied the holocaust is a ferverent beleiver in that concept, that they're all jews? That the evidence itself is a jewish lie?

My point is that the numbers could possible have been manipulated for ignoble purposes.

So if 'the jews' hadn't 'fabricated' the death count, they wouldn't've gotten isreal, because yahweh requires that it be 6 million? That doesn't even make sense.

If the holocaust was 6 million or 2 million, the British would've given administration of the palestine mandate to a Jewish State. If there hadn't been a holocaust at all they would've given it over to them, and they were planning on doing that long before it. The holocaust merely underscored the necessity of such a state. Had there been a state of Israel in those days, there wouldn't've been a holocaust, because the jews would've been able to prevent it.

nygdan, now i really thank you for actively pursuing the end of the ignorance that is denial of the holocaust and conspiracies surrounding the numbers

though i do disagree with your statement that a jewish state is necessary

anyway, why do we always here the 6 million number? at least 10 million people died in the holocaust, it could have been as high as 12 million. it's just 6 million hebrews that died in the holocaust. the only reason that so many of them died is because there were plenty of them to killed. 1-2 million roma people (commonly referred to as gypsies) died. homosexuals were killed, the mentally ill were killed, the mentally and physically disabled were killed. a very small number of blacks were killed.

why doesn't anyone dispute the other half of the deaths?

Indeed, you notice that the holocaust denial literature (and again, I think that there is a difference between the people, like Leuchter and Zundel, producing the literature, and the people who read it and think 'well, that part right there does make some sense, I don't hate the jews, but that is an odd tidbit of information right there) opts to focus on the death of the jews. Sometimes it even cites the millions of other deaths as a way to try to say that the jews are manipulators. Thats because at the back of much of this literature is the idea that, while the holocaust may not have happened, we should have one now, because the jews, in general, are evil.


As far as the focus being on the 6 million number, thats because its what the best tabulations come out to. It could've been higher, but there's not enough support for it being higher.

Hoess himself signed an affadavit attesting to the extermination of 2 million jews via gassing and another half million by "other means"

Yet, the official death toll at Auschwitz has been reduced to 1,250,000 Jews, making the accuracy of Höss's affidavit very questionable.

let's assume the number there is closer to 2 million than to 2.5. That's 2 years at Auschwitz alone. There were other camps that had similar numbers. the math adds up.

There are no official figures, even among the Holocaust orthodoxy. For example, the Red Cross archive uses much lower figures.

I'm not accusing you of such so don't get your panties in a bunch. The link provides evidence and more links.

Thusfar, I haven't seen anything that can convince me, to be honest. The strength of what's considered as evidence appears very weak.

Originally posted by Nygdan
Indeed, you notice that the holocaust denial literature (and again, I think that there is a difference between the people, like Leuchter and Zundel, producing the literature, and the people who read it and think 'well, that part right there does make some sense, I don't hate the jews, but that is an odd tidbit of information right there) opts to focus on the death of the jews.

I believe that's for two reasons : the fact that the media almost exclusively focuses on the Jews and the fact that their data on non-Jewish deaths seem to correspond with official figures. There's no point in questioning figures when there is no evidence to put them into question, like in the case of Jewish deaths.