China demands US cancel planned missile sale to Taiwan

Originally posted by justanothergangster
yes but its Taiwan's right as a sovereign nation

Technically most of the world does'nt officially recognize Taiwan as
a sovereign nation, in fact the only countries that do recognize it,
PRChina refuses to do any kind of negotiations or trade with.

In fact, Taiwan itself does not describe itself that way, since PRChina
has repeatedly threatened to attack them if they tried to secede.

However, I do agree with your overall sentiment, and I myself consider
Taiwan as a sovereign nation

China won't invade Taiwan any time soon.
The US will probably sell the weapons to Taiwan anyway.

I'm not even sure if China would invade Taiwan if they did declare independence. It would be suicide for them. The media around the world would make Taiwan into the persecuted democratic country. And South Korea and especially Japan would seek nuclear weapons.

:shrugs: I'm not worried.

yes but its taiwans right as a sovriegn nation to arm itself and if china invades then taiwan was justified in its actions of arming itself and if china doesnt want them to have the missiles that shows that china may be planning to invade taiwan its kinda like a they can risk it with no missiles or they can risk provoking china to invade.....but china invading taiwan is still breaking international treaties.....selling weapons to taiwan isnt

China sees Taiwan not sovereign rather a province of China. The US is one of the only countries in the world that sees Taiwan as an independent nation.

It makes sense for us to give them missiles because it creates a buffer between the US and China. We have the Japanese there also.

Having these two gets us closer without getting us closer.

Originally posted by perfectdeception
The US is one of the only countries in the world that sees Taiwan as an independent nation.

Technically we do not recognize them as a sovereign state, and really
the only reason the majority of the world does'nt, is because they don't
want to here PRChina's ranting, however they do unofficially consider
them as such.

yeah ok. Let china "cash in their debt".....they would collapse as well....becasue A. We would not pay the debt. We would call it invalid and than go to war.
B. IF the american economy tanks than so does the worlds.

Originally posted by Wotan

The US/Western public would not have the stomach for another war, let alone one over Taiwan.

And why would the US want to 'piss off' the country with the largest population and military as well as the Muslim world? Are they (US Government) going for ''The most hated nation on earth ever'' title?

Incidently, I personally dont hate the American people, just your Politics.

The US doesn't care about China's opinion or military. This isn't a military conflict it's an economic one.

China wants to build their economy and entice Taiwan to come back by putting on some fresh makeup and looking attractive. You are right about the 50 year plan, they know they'll get Taiwan back at some point, but not with war, but with persuassion. Killing "Chinese" people on Taiwan with an invasion or missiles would be foolhardy. The economic faucet would turn off if there was an invasion as the US, Australia, Japan, and S Korea would ban Chinese imports. China can speed that process up by infiltrating the Taiwanese government with supporters, but if found out it would set them back years...so they will bide their time and keep the pressure up.

The US will fight the pressure by sending missiles to Taiwan. Thus giving Taiwan the tools it needs to make an unforced decision without Chinese pressure and putting pressure back on China to become more "acceptable" and democratic.

Only a decision by the people of Taiwan to rejoin China will work. A Chinese invasion would become the bloodiest counterattack that China never dreamed of...Taiwan has a nuclear ace up their sleeve that sits about 100 ft underwater that China could never stop.


Americans hate their own politics...Bush's foreign policy is a dangerous one, but so was Reagan's. It's all about putting pressure on those that are a threat, not about going to war with them. Bush just doesn't have the talent or charisma around him like Reagan did, so he sends the wrong message of being a warmonger.

Originally posted by Wotan
Do you guys honestly think that the West/US would go to a full scale war over Taiwan? I dont think so somehow. Rightly or wrongly, Taiwan is Chinese territory.

[edit on 2-3-2007 by Wotan]

He is right, the US has clearly said that it will not come to the defence of Taiwan as in declaring war with China, but will support them in aid. America will not go to war with China.

Plus, Americans are not stupid. No President or general would want to pick a fight with China. And no major party in Taiwan wants to declear official independence, majority do not want to create a problem with China.

And I don't care what people say about Chinese economy, but we saw that China can have an effect, Tuesday's market crash. Again, Americans are not stupid and will not damage their economic interests over Taiwan.

I feel that America will only get sucked into a war in Asia if it involves North and South Korea. Not Taiwan

[edit on 3-3-2007 by infinite]

Right... good luck mate.
The more the US aggressive policy continues, the more states of the world will co-operate for stelth actions against the US and the dollar. The Bush policy is driving the country to a ruin as well. I guess it's a matter of time... the fall of the empire and the emperor (the decider).

I haven't read every response to this thread., but...

If you want to cripple China, cut off Iranian and Venezuealan oil exports.

Originally posted by jsobecky
I haven't read every response to this thread., but...

If you want to cripple China, cut off Iranian and Venezuealan oil exports.

Oh thats right, just like the US did with Japan prior to WWII - thats just great. People should be learning from history, not repeating it.

Originally posted by RetinoidReceptor
I'm not even sure if China would invade Taiwan if they did declare independence. It would be suicide for them. The media around the world would make Taiwan into the persecuted democratic country.

:shrugs: I'm not worried.

Oh yes, just like the World did when China invaded Tibet, a peace loving nation that was no threat to anyone.

Suicide, hardly.

Do you really think that China cares what the rest of the world thinks? Look back to Tianeman Square or have you forgotten already?

The US/West may well have some super-duper weapons, but it only takes one 'lump of lead' to kill a man. Do you think the Taliban in Afghanistan gives a # about Apache helicopters and such like. They took on the might of the British Empire (largest ever empire) and won, they took on the Soviet Union and won. The only empire to have beaten the Afghans was Alexandra the Great's.

An invasion of China would be suicide for the opposing forces, not the other way round. They would not be flying home 'body-bags', they would be freighting them home on Container ships.

Originally posted by jsobecky
I haven't read every response to this thread., but...

If you want to cripple China, cut off Iranian and Venezuealan oil exports.

Yeah great idea....somehow i don't think the US army is keen with the idea of a war against China.
The Bush administration should learn something very quickly, many nations around the world are seeking closer ties to China not America.

This isn't the 60s or the late 80s, regime change or influence in China is going to result with them breaking the hands of those who are trying to alter the nation.

Human rights is the only issue that many nations try to change in China. Democracy or Taiwan is never mentioned anymore.

Piece by piece America is being ripped apart and it's a joint effort from all the countries in the world America has felt the need to stick their nose in their business. Ex. Russia, North Korea, China, Cuba, etc.

Countries in the world are tired of hearing (from the U.S) they are number one and always flaunting their power over the years. the U.S got cocky and underestimated the power of a joint effort by a majority of the world against them. ONE HUGE LESSON we learn as kids is "Don't underestimate your enemy." and lets face it America did and now they are paying for it.

Their military is being lead into multiple wars and eventually their military will be spread too thin to be a real force. After the North Korea attack begins either taiwan or venezuela will then become the next thorn in the americans side. Countries will stop supporting the U.S in it's conquest and they will be fighting all of these wars alone.

The american dollar is surviving on a thin thread at the moment and all it would take is for a few things to happen and it will be done for good. One being the default oil dollar changing from U.S dollar to Euro. That alone would cause serious havoc on the american economy.

Which of course would force America to fight back and fight hard using ever trick in the book, i.e nuclear, chemical, etc.

Yes if China does pull the debt money out now they would suffer as well but China is creating a very tight economic relationship between Brazil, Russia, India, South Africa, North Korea. Once this relationship is near completion over the next 10 years the group as a whole will be able o sustain itself and not need trading with the U.S. China can export to them and import anything they want from them. At that point they will all eliminate the U.S forcing them to isolate themselves because no one will trade with them except for Britain, Canada and Mexico. The North American union will not be big enough to be bigger then the Chinese relationships thus making us nothing to them.

IF AMERICA was smart they would begin now to create their own isolated relationship with North America with our own energy because north america has all the resources it needs to sustain itself and no need to go overseas for anything. Canada has a vast amount of resources untapped (second biggest resource for oil in the world in albertas sand dunes). So does America and so does Mexico. If we pull out now we may be able to turn things around in 5-10 years but of course America is just to greedy. That greed is what will be the countries downfall.

[edit on 3-3-2007 by leafer]

Originally posted by leafer
Which of course would force America to fight back and fight hard using ever trick in the book, i.e nuclear, chemical, etc.

America will not use weapons like that, it would result in the whole world turning on the United States.

But the biggest problem America faces with Taiwan is international support from European countries. All European countries argree that Taiwan is a Chinese Provence. Majority of Chinese military equipment comes from Europe, especially the UK. Of course, there is a EU embargo against China, which the EU wants to lift now, but we still have sold them arms. The embargo states we cannot sell them completed weapons, however, we can sell them the parts to build it.

The UK has even sold China components for nuclear reactors.

Originally posted by infinite

Originally posted by leafer
Which of course would force America to fight back and fight hard using ever trick in the book, i.e nuclear, chemical, etc.

America will not use weapons like that, it would result in the whole world turning on the United States.

But the biggest problem America faces with Taiwan is international support from European countries. All European countries argree that Taiwan is a Chinese Provence. Majority of Chinese military equipment comes from Europe, especially the UK. Of course, there is a EU embargo against China, which the EU wants to lift now, but we still have sold them arms. The embargo states we cannot sell them completed weapons, however, we can sell them the parts to build it.

The UK has even sold China components for nuclear reactors.

If America turns into a non world power and the economy goes down the tubes (which it will) they will have no choice but to fight rather then take it and let things happen. All the other major countries have realized that if they work together instead of working alone they can ruin the U.S economy.

The U.S can't keep borrowing money for wars, using money for natural disasters, etc. Eventually countries will realize (which they do) they will never get their money back so they won't lend or buy U.S debt.

[edit on 3-3-2007 by leafer]

Originally posted by leafer
If America turns into a non world power and the economy goes down the tubes (which it will) they will have no choice but to fight rather then take it and let things happen.

Why?

When the European powers declined, we didn't try and take the whole world with us. America needs to learn that it cannot be number one for ever.

I haven't read every response to this thread., but...

If you want to cripple China, cut off Iranian and Venezuealan oil exports.

Have you forgotten that the Chinese population is the largest in the world?

Have you forgotten that miliatry enlistment is NOT voluntary?

Have you forgotten they have atleast a Million man army?

Have you forgotten that we are already in two conflicts?

Cutting them off from Iran and Venezuelan oil exports sounds like a great idea to me..

Originally posted by perfectdeception
Have you forgotten they have atleast a Million man army?

Make that two..

Two million man army if i recall

Why?

When the European powers declined, we didn't try and take the whole world with us. America needs to learn that it cannot be number one for ever.

Just like the Romans, The Greeks, The Ottomans, The Egyptians, and EVERY major civilization that has been on top...

BUT..... It doesnt mean we can't try, and we should try...

Originally posted by Wotan

Oh yes, just like the World did when China invaded Tibet, a peace loving nation that was no threat to anyone.

Suicide, hardly.

Tibet wasn't a large trading partner. Japan and South Korea were not cautious about China (as well as many other countries around the world). This is a totally different circumstance. It will not be good for China to invade Taiwan.