Black Fraternities & Lodges

Greetings,
I recently stumbled onto this site and read some older threads and was aliitle disturbed by some things I read. Let me start by saying I am a member of Alpha Phi Alpha Fraternity, the oldest HISTORICALLY black fraternity & I am a 32nd Degree Prince Hall Freemason & A Shriner. The problem I have was with posts stating that Black fraternities exclude other races, that we are segregated. My fraternity has had white members since 1942, I have been to conventions and met white, asian, and hispanic brothers. The truth is that white people do not activley seek to pledge our fraternities. Secondly, I have yet to visit any Lodge that proclaims itself as "All Black", Prince Hall Masonry was chartered in a REGULAR manner by the United Grand Lodge of England due to racism by its white counterparts, and we are still recognized by the U.G.L.E, in fact I know of quite a few white Prince Hall Masons, I am stating all of this to say that while racism exists on BOTH sides, it is uninformed to post statements that Black fratenal orders activley discriminate when suchis not the case.

The Catholic counterpart to Prince Hall are the Knights of Peter Claver.

Thanks for the info about Prince Hall; I didn't know there were non-blacks in Prince Hall.

Supposedly the KPCs have 25% of their membership consisting of non-Black members. I've looked into joining myself, but the dues are prohibitively high -- 4-6 times that of most Knights of Columbus councils.

If anyone comes across KPC regalia, please U2U me...

[edit on 1-3-2007 by Zhenyghi]

Hi PrinceHall06, good post. I have wanted to go visit brothers in the Prince Hall lodge. I have been a mason since last year so I haven't had time to talk to any Prince Hall Masons. I know they meet in our same lodge on a different night so I never see any. Your post makes me feel better because I was a little worried that I might irritate any of the members by showing up (who let that white boy in ). There are still a few old kodgers living in the past that think white and black masons should remain separate but as the newer generation takes over, I think that it is inevitable that they will eventually merge completely even though it may take a few generations. Things change slowly in Masonry. And for the record, Prince Hall Masons are accepted and welcome at my lodge and most other lodges in the US. Unfortunately there are a few southern states that haven't heard the latest news (you know... the civil war is over and they lost).

There's an interesting article on Black Freemasonry at the Grand Lodge of Scotland website.

That is good info Trinityman. I will hafta send that link to some of the other guys at my lodge.

Something that struck me as odd, when I first started investigating candidates...

One of the guys on the committee - an older, well respected brother - said something along the lines of "Ok, this candidate is black. We have to be sure to mention Prince Hall to him." Asking him more elicited "We have an arrangement with PH. We tell any black candidates about them. They tell any white candidates about us."

Now, I don't think that this fellow was being biased or racist... but if it's true that such a practice exists, then I'm not sure what to think. It would appear to perpetuate the trend of who-joins-what.

I don't think there is institutional racism in Freemasonry. That said, I could see how only a few well-placed racists could force the issue.

Yes, in fact when it comes to fraternal recognition the only Grand Lodges that due not recognize Prince Hall Masonry are the states that once made up the Confederacy !! Its sad that an organization dedicated to the brotherhood of man under the fatherhood of god can still have such bigoted despots. I live in Memphis & it is sad but true that the "old heads" on both sides of the house will have to die for us to realize the true beauty & power of the craft

I had recently posted and hope I didn't offend. I am familar with the early history of the lodges but never knew if whites joined. I assumed they could but still wasn't sure. I imagine with standard lodges not recognizing prince hall this could cause some animosity on both sides.

Last I knew with the big stink about Alabama lodges being racist I earned that total of 12 lodges have had a continous vote to not recognize prince hall. I fully disagree with this.

In travels I would love to be able to go to Prince Halls and France lodges if I ever got there. The bigger the better.

There should be a national commitee to review landmarks on some things but as little things, old ways seem to always stay.

The issue is that each state is independent, The Grand Lodge system makes each and every Brand body autonomous of the other. The fact remains that the research has been done by recognized Masonic authorities, and research Lodges and they have all stipulated that Prince Hall Masonry and all subordinate Prince Hall Grand Lodges which can trace their lineage back to African Lodge # 1 which was founded by Prince Hall are just and regularly constituted lodges and as such are entiltled to Masonic Recognition. Here again, the only states in the U.S. that dont recognize P.H. Masonry are the southern states that once comprised the confederacy, and you mean to teel me that they know better than the "Mother" Grand Lodge of England...Rubbish!!. Our rituals, grips, landmarks,challenges,lectures and passwords are the exact same. The ONLY difference is that to be initiated as an E.A. you must be 21 yrs old. To be a Shriner our must be either a 32nd Degree or a Kt. Templar, and our O.E.S must either be the wife,daughter,sister,mother, or Grandmother of a Master Mason.

Hello everyone, just completed my 2nd degree this Monday here in Maryland. The Grand Lodge of Maryland recognized PH Masonry a couple years ago and actually Virginia is the only other southern state that recognizes PH.

Originally posted by Hobbes
Something that struck me as odd, when I first started investigating candidates...

One of the guys on the committee - an older, well respected brother - said something along the lines of "Ok, this candidate is black. We have to be sure to mention Prince Hall to him." Asking him more elicited "We have an arrangement with PH. We tell any black candidates about them. They tell any white candidates about us."

Now, I don't think that this fellow was being biased or racist... but if it's true that such a practice exists, then I'm not sure what to think. It would appear to perpetuate the trend of who-joins-what.

I don't think there is institutional racism in Freemasonry. That said, I could see how only a few well-placed racists could force the issue.

That doesnt sound racist at all, it sounds iladvised sure, but not racist.

I think the point behind any such arrangement like that would be so the candidate is with people he feels more comfortable with, and of course compitition for members perhaps.. unless however it is also apart of the same plan to disregard the black candidate if he declines to join PH - since PH lodges are not exactly every where it may be out of driving distance.. I know of only one PH lodge around my city and it is a good 35-45 min drive.

But a question to the OP and fellow Masons.. has it not been considered to abolish PH lodges converting them to regular lodges so as to not have a confusion about future candidates that don't even know what PH is?

Originally posted by Rockpuck
But a question to the OP and fellow Masons.. has it not been considered to abolish PH lodges converting them to regular lodges so as to not have a confusion about future candidates that don't even know what PH is?

A couple of thoughts here:

1. Notwithstanding the particular problems that Prince Hall and 'State' Grand Lodges seem to have in the South-East, I can see a time, hopefully in the not-to-distant-future, when all PHGLs will be recognized by State GLs and vice versa. How long this will take will depend on embedded opinion which goes way beyond freemasonry. I live in Alabama and I have a clear perspective on this.

2. Whether they should merge is another issue entirely. IMO both systems have legitimate ancestry, diverse customs and a long and honorable history, and I'm not sure what purpose would be gained by merging. Increasingly closer ties and inter visitation would be a good thing though.

3. No-one can 'abolish' PH masonry. God forbid! My only regret is that I cannot visit a local PH lodge as they are not recognized by my GL.

IMO there is as much racism in lodges in the Deep South as there is in the general population. This issue will come out in the wash as the older generations die off and more modern thinking is allowed to flourish. In the mean time self-segregation (which is what we are talking about here) from both communities will continue both inside and outside the masonic lodge.

Now that's all you'll get from me on this one as I feel the hot breath of the moderators on my neck, inquiring as to the conspiratorial nature of my post...

Well written, thoughtful reply / post. Let me state that I heartily concur with every sentiment in the last post. The closest that we have ever come to any semblance of intervisitation was the invitaion to participate in a flag day program at the local Scottish Rite Temple (Memphis, Tenn). Let me be the first to tell you, there was plenty of grumblings, apprehension, and misgivings by elderly P.H.A. brothers. This unfortunate divide is wide and it is pervasive on both sides of the fence. Only time and more young men will make a change. The fraternity need more young brethren who are articulate, who avail themselves of Masonic study and research, to eventually become active in the Grand Lodges of their respective states, THEN we may see a change, As Always......
P.O.T.S
James A. Spraggins