Dr. Roger Leir

Here...do this....define: podiatrist in Google.

He's a frickin' doctor in every meaning and intent of the word.

A podiatrist is a doctor of podiatric medicine. It is not the same as an MD.
They don't go to the same medical school. He can call himself a doctor all he wants, because he is one. However he is not an MD. Try some reading comprehension ?

Originally posted by MrPenny
Here...do this....define: podiatrist in Google.

He's a frickin' doctor in every meaning and intent of the word.

NEGATIVE. Define PODIATRIST by CALIFORNIA STATE LAW.

Doctors of Podiatric Medicine (DPMs) are licensed under Section 2472 of the State Medical Practice Act....

In addition to performing foot and ankle surgeries, DPMs are also licensed to assist medical and osteopathic doctors (MDs, DOs) in any surgery--podiatric or non-podiatric.

DPMs are trained and fully licensed under California law to independently perform full-body history and physical (H&P) examinations in any setting for any patient. With new regulations finalized by the federal Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services (CMS), there is no longer any conflict with federal criteria. Source

California says they are doctors. Therefore, Dr. Roger Leir, is a doctor.

It cannot be much clearer than this.

Look nobody is saying he isn't a doctor. But he's not an MD ! There is a difference. Now I don't even know if Leir claimed to be an MD. I'm only replying to the person who stated a podiatrist is a specialty of an MD. That's not the case and it's so easily verifiable.

Yes, Roger Leir is a doctor. A doctor of podiatric medicine. A dentist is a doctor also, but neither are the same thing as an MD. MD is a specific degree for someone who studied allopathic medicine. Podiatrists do not receive the same training as an MD. Maybe you've heard of osteopaths ? They are doctors too, but their title is DO, not MD.

I'm afraid I dont understand Southpaw11's disposition. Where on Roger Leir's website does he claim to be an MD??????????????

Roger Leir is a doctor, but not an MD. In other words you dont have to be an MD to be a doctor.

Now for that fool that complained about Dr. Leir charging people to see results, well consider the fact that Leir does free surgerys for patients who claim to have a UFO encounter. This includes patients that lie about having an alien implant, and can get a free surgery to get rid of normal debree in their body. Lets not forget the amount of money needed to maintain a website, and the actual money to fund a free surgery. Next time please do some research before posting.

Quote by Observe50

I don't think much of the man. I e-mailed about the tracking device and he never acknowledged my e-mail. I bet if he looks and finds it the greed will set in and he will reap the benefits and this will tell of the man he is

Then again maybe not

On the same token, why should we think much of you and your UFO stories? Roger Leir gets 100's of emails regarding people who want a free surgery. Each case is analyzed based on how much sustenance there is to the story, any physical proof left behind, among other criteria. Afterall, is it really necessary to reply back and say, "I cant do your surgery." You have to do more then just send an email to be on the top list to get a free surgery.

[edit on 20-2-2007 by crijack]

SouthPaw doesn't like Leir because he likes Derrel Sims. He will find any fault he can even if its bunk or unimportant about Leir just to stir up distaste for him.

He likes Sims because Sims supports SP's idea that aliens are evil. So far as I've seen, Roger Leir is neutral on the subject.

www.coasttocoastam.com...

Personally I think Leir has found some interesting stuff, and I wish we could figure out how the implants work, as they seem to be legit.

[edit on 21-2-2007 by BallOfPopulation]

Originally posted by BallOfPopulation
SouthPaw doesn't like Leir because he likes Derrel Sims. He will find any fault he can even if its bunk or unimportant about Leir just to stir up distaste for him.

He likes Sims because Sims supports SP's idea that aliens are evil. So far as I've seen, Roger Leir is neutral on the subject.

www.coasttocoastam.com...

Personally I think Leir has found some interesting stuff, and I wish we could figure out how the implants work, as they seem to be legit.

[edit on 21-2-2007 by BallOfPopulation]

Again, Things are usually never as they seem. That's where I'll start.

And from here, I'd like to make certain we all understand that there is ALWAYS a possiblity that there is a WHOLE lot more information to any situation than YOU might have from your own personal perspective, whomever YOU may be...

Next...

I guess hangin' in "my head" is about the only place this could have been as funny as it was... LOL! And that statement will tend to hold truth b/c I am the only one who knows "me"... well... except Christ... and "them"... *evilgrin*

Now... Sims doesn't actually support MY views. That guy has actually cleared up ALOT for ME. Why you would want to add a "personal" touch to an OBJECTIVE conversation, I do not know. I take no offense...

See... if we're going to sit in here all day and try and figure the whole thing out by implementing binary code... it's not gonna work out so well for anybody... agreed?

I have NO need, desire, nor inclination to "stir up dust" about anyone. I have my own "skeletons" as does EVERY HUMAN BEING. This is NOT about who is "right" or who is "wrong" any longer. It's turned into a situation where alliances NEED to be formed... HUMANITY needs to WAKE UP.

This has become a situation where all that REALLY matters is that we learn to HELP each other. That humanity is THERE for ITSELF. Because, whether you realize it or not, we've only got one reality against which to compare... so this is NOT going to be easy to figure out... NOT without Faith. And the mere fact that you will laugh at that, is why you will prove yourself only part of the PROBLEM instead of the SOLUTION.

Let's face it... you're either part of the PROBLEM or you are part of the SOULUTION. It's really that easy.

I would gladly respond to ANY questions you might have for regarding Derrel Sims... or ANY other investigator in the industry. We looked at them. ALL of them. I didn't depend on "internet chat" to discern one of our "consultants" ... and potential "ally".

In fact there were three of us researching ALL of them. I could tell you some pretty interesting stories about some of these ufologists... things that would make you shudder... Is that "wise" talk? No. You don't know me, so you don't see the look in my eye that tells you that you KNOW I'm telling you the truth. And believe you me... You'd KNOW.

Sims is pretty much the one that "shone" the most of those we could clearly tell operated with INTEGRITY. Man there are a TON of those guys out there... but it seems that there were MANY MORE over the decades befor this... especially 70s, 80s...

All I ask is that you, again, RESERVE JUDGEMENT... LOL...

I don't know that you realize it or not. But this really isn't a "funny" topic. It's NOT a laughing matter... and, quite frankly, I think it is EXTREMELY irresponsible to cast aside ANYONE'S 40 years of research without at least examining it FIRST.

WHAT IF... Sims IS "The Guy..." and YOU just don't KNOW IT YET? Gee... I guess that has NEVER happened, right? Again... not antagonizing... I had to learn by the SAME example. Maybe Sims IS right. Perhaps the gray IS a stinky little bioDORK managed by Lucifer's "lieutenants"...

Maybe YOU were mistaken in believing the DECEPTION. Maybe YOU were mistaken for taking STAR TREK and STAR WARS and SG1 and KNIGHT RIDER and A TEAM and MAGNUM PI ... et al... as the EXAMPLE... LOL!

Maybe YOU were mistaken for believing they are here to HELP you... and wouldn't ya know it... ALL the warnings you would have needed are ALL "programmed" into the BIBLE. *SHRIEK* A SWEARWORD!!!!

HE SAID "BIBLE"!!!!

Yet, b/c you have an "AVERSION" to that "scientific document", you think it's all "bunk".

So let me ask you... did you ever really stop and consider why someone with as open a mind as yourself would DISCOUNT the BIBLE as a LEGITIMATE source of "historical reference" an "ancient knowledge" in the quest for truth?

Have you yet stopped and pondered human ARROGANCE in this quest of yours to find TRUTH?

You speak as though you know me. You speak as though you have it "all figured out". Brother... if it were THAT easy... I wouldn't be here typing this CRAP right now trying to point out that "namecalling" is a bad idea, kids... LOL!

yikes.

And yet, YOU will have NO cognition about the fact that THEY probably orchestrated this entire event... instead... shaking your head and knowing NOT what I truly meant RIGHT NOW.

Sounds like JIBBERISH to YOU... but there are already a few people on this site that KNOW exactly what I mean... and I KNOW they KNOW b/c I KNOW they are abductees...

ONE of them is one that YOU (collectively and without individual guilt) crucified... COMPLETELY and abductee... has more crap in his closet than you could possibly IMAGINE. If YOU understood what it really meant when YOU (collective) crucified that person... YOU (individual) would feel GUILT.

Whether you people understand it or not... you did the SAME thing as someone who comes up to an OBVIOUS victim of RAPE and ASSAULT and KIDNAPPING... and you get right in their face... when YOU are supposed to be the COUNSELOR... the NURTURING ONES to help... in a COMMUNITY that is supposed to RECOGNIZE THESE THINGS.

No... YOU say "that's ridiculous... that could never have happened" or "it was flares" or "that was no rapist on PCP... it was a weather anomoly" or "nobody stole the FETUS of your CHILD, maam... you have SLEEP APNEA" ... Get it yet? SAME THING. VIOLENT CRIME.

What if it were YOUR kids?



Not you guys...

You focused on a "video" instead of a HUMAN BEING. The deception. It worked... AGAIN. Don't worry though... I've done the SAME THING. REPEATEDLY. It took a LONG TIME to "decipher" even the littlest bit...

RESERVE JUDGEMENT

BE A SCIENTIST. GO READ THE BIBLE

[edit on 21/202/07 by Southpaw11]

Be a scientist go read the Bible?...

Major crossing of pathways there...

Hows about you stop preaching and trying to push your OPINION as FACT, and accept that some people's OPINIONS differ to yours.

Agree to disagree and move on.

Dr. Lear's office is fairly near where I live & work...

He has performed multiple surgeries to remove objects embedded in people. There's a video out there about the stuff he's found, which you can rent on Netflix...

According to him what is found appears to be an extra-terestrial material (doesn't naturally occur). They are also surrounded by some type of lining. He also states that nerve endings connect directly to the objects, which he states can't occur if the objects were simply embedded by accidental means.

He also says the material the components are made up of are generally the same.

According to wikipedia, Podiotrists are not MDs, they are DPMs (Doctors of Podiatric Medicine). They go to a 4 year school following college, symiler to what MDs take, only focusing more on the foot.

Also, MD is not like the only title for doctors. My primary care doctor is a DO (Doctor of Osteopath). They get all the same training as an MD, and have to meet all the same requirements as an MD, but they are different than an MD. The only real difference is a DO is specfically trained to treat a person as a whole while an MD is trained to treat the problem at hand.

Just because a doctor isn't an MD doesn't mean they aren't a trained physician...

Originally posted by fooffstarr
Be a scientist go read the Bible?...

Major crossing of pathways there...

Hows about you stop preaching and trying to push your OPINION as FACT, and accept that some people's OPINIONS differ to yours.

Agree to disagree and move on.

See.... there it is AGAIN.

And if I were yelling MOVE!!!! GET OUT OF THE WAY!!!! TRAIN!!!! Would you sit there and throw that same temper tantrum?

Folks... if you are performing an UNBIASED SCIENTIFIC EXPERIMENT you must consider ALL the elements of the "system" in your analysis DON'T YOU? LOL! THAT includes the Bible, Ancient Sumerian Texts, Ancient Egyptian Texts... You know... Academic stuff that existed THOUSANDS of years before YOU decided to THRASH people for suggesting some reading... LOL!!!

Seriously... just suggesting you READ THE BOOK for EVIDENCE. E V I D E N C E... LOL!

LOOK at your aversion to it... it's JUST A BOOK IN YOUR MIND. WHY such an AVERSION to it? LOL!!! Implement it as KNOWLEDGE. There's a wealth of it in there.

So... tell me... are YOU one of those who condemn the Bible, yet have never read the whole thing? Just curious. Cuz I have NOT once said "hey you must REPENT SINNER!!!" LOL!!! gimme a break man...

I just suggested you READ. And YOU turned that around into "religious suppression" somehow... LOL!! NICE.


So YES.

BE A SCIENTIST. GO READ THE BIBLE.

Man... You can sit there and NOT look... OR... go look and see if the SCIENTIFIC DATA THAT IS THERE is "really there"... LOL!

Wanna know WHY Abduction happens? Go read the Book of Job. It is EXPLAINED and it's not in some "VOODOO" secretsanta language as you profess.... LOL! It's in PLAIN ENGLISH.

Check it out... Might be surprised...

Agree to Disagree is a steady plan. I concur. But doesn't that also mean that if I say the TRAIN is coming and YOU say it isn't... and YOU are standing in the way of the TRAIN...

Wait...

?



SPout.

[edit on 21/202/07 by Southpaw11]

How silly that looked?

Give me a break. You still didn't acknowledge what i said about opinions... just side-stepped the question again with a personal attack.

All that, once again, was YOUR OPINION. Not FACT. The Bible was written by MEN, passed down by MEN, re-written and translated by MEN. It is not a reliable source for scientific study. It is just a compilation of STORIES. That is my OPINION, and i am going to stick to it.

Oh, and yes i have read it. Cover to cover. Many years ago.

I'm not going to argue with you about it, because it is clear you won't discuss this civilly.

Now, could we get back on topic about Leir.

[edit on 21-2-2007 by fooffstarr]

Originally posted by fooffstarr
How silly that looked?

Give me a break. You still didn't acknowledge what i said about opinions... just side-stepped the question again with a personal attack.

All that, once again, was YOUR OPINION. Not FACT. The Bible was written by MEN, passed down by MEN, re-written and translated by MEN. It is not a reliable source for scientific study. It is just a compilation of STORIES. That is my OPINION, and i am going to stick to it.

Oh, and yes i have read it. Cover to cover. Many years ago.

I'm not going to argue with you about it, because it is clear you won't discuss this civilly.

Now, could we get back on topic about Leir.

[edit on 21-2-2007 by fooffstarr]

I attacked ... YOU??? wait. That makes no sense. LOL! *whew*


I'm going to note I edited prior to this response... so that's why the reference to "looked silly" is there. I did that.

I DID. I HAVE. MANY TIMES. I CONCUR. We have to consider EVERYTHING. But you MUST agree... that you are either part of the problem or you are part of the solution.

Now...

If infighting dominates progress... diminishes harmony... then we've got a problem.

LOL I AM discussing this civilly. I asked IF you had read it... didn't like cast some whacko voodoo satan gonna gitcha spell on you or something!

LOL!

DO YOU NOT SEE THIS?

I want you ALL to LOOK. CLOSELY.

THIS.

THIS is what the GRAY is AFTER. THIS. CONFLICT. ABANDONMENT. ISOLATION.

For ALL HUMANITY. If you step OUTSIDE THE BOX you see it clear as day. If you get wrapped up in screensavers, memory markers, pretty lights, etc... you ain't NEVER gonna figure it out.

As far as LIER goes...

Time will show you what I am NOT going to say. THAT guy is a BAD EGG.

PERIOD.


Now...

If YOU have ALL the evidence I have about PHARMACIES in this country... and about PRESCRIPTIONS in the state of california THEN you can come plead your case about "doctors" like Roger Lier with me, and I'll be glad to engage a healthy conversation. If you have absolutely NO IDEA what this statement MEANS... then perhaps YOU don't know the whole story, do you?



Thanks for your input.

SPout

southpaw from your posts you seem like a bible thumping redneck. your posts are scary to read becuase it seems like its coming from someone who is really mentaly deranged. please take your medication for the sake of all the people that actually want to debate and not force our opinions on others on ats.

Southpaw

I am surprised that you have such distain for Roger Lier when he and Derrel Sims worked on a few projects together.

I found this website which shows them working as "partners" in an implant removal surgery.

www.ufodigest.com...

Edit to add, in light of the current thread, I couldn't help but to add this quote from you in another thread you posted on today.

"You do realize Sims is also a Biblical Scholar right? I mean SERIOUS business, not "armchair" crap. His circles include those knowledgeable in the "ancient knowledge". They are to THIS what a PODIATRIST is to the FOOT. They may NOT have ALL the answers... but it is certtainly safe to conclude they have a more educated comprehension than you or I, no?"





[edit on 23-2-2007 by interestedalways]

Originally posted by interestedalways
Southpaw

I am surprised that you have such distain for Roger Lier when he and Derrel Sims worked on a few projects together.

I found this website which shows them working as "partners" in an implant removal surgery.

www.ufodigest.com...

Edit to add, in light of the current thread, I couldn't help but to add this quote from you in another thread you posted on today.

"You do realize Sims is also a Biblical Scholar right? I mean SERIOUS business, not "armchair" crap. His circles include those knowledgeable in the "ancient knowledge". They are to THIS what a PODIATRIST is to the FOOT. They may NOT have ALL the answers... but it is certtainly safe to conclude they have a more educated comprehension than you or I, no?"





[edit on 23-2-2007 by interestedalways]

Good Eye, as usual IA! LOL! Okay... I'll clarify this much for you.

1) Roger Leir, just as ALL these contributors HAS offered LEGITIMATE evidence. I've not said that he's not... and I don't mean to complicate things, really I don't... but it has NOTHING to do with the LEGIT things the guy HAS put forward...

2) You can check with Derrel... Sims ASKED FOR Leir's RESIGNATION from whatever "collabortion" they had engaged. I think THAT point alone should speak VOLUMES... BUT... I would definitely understand if that is "not enough proof"... because it's HEARSAY... except the part about the resignation...

GEE WHIZ... Now WHY would Derrel Sims REQUEST Roger Leir's RESIGNATION???



Here's the OFFICIAL Version:
source: DERREL SIMS Online Article. I copied it and saved it. Can't remember the specific site it was on. I'm certain it's on more than one.

LEIR STEPS DOWN FROM F.I.R.S.T.

SIMS GATHERS NEW "DREAM TEAM" Pioneering abduction researcher Derrel Sims has asked for and received the resignation of colleague Dr. Roger Leir as Medical Director of Fund For Interactive Research in Space Technology, the partnership they formed in 1996. The team gained notoriety when they became the first to remove alleged alien implants in a controlled medical setting.

Sims stated that the medical responsibilities of FIRST are going to require professionals with a broader scope and experience than Leir possesses, who is a podiatrist. Sims is currently finalizing the selection of a team of medical, scientific, and other uniquely-disciplined professionals to explore new research released from Saber, Sims' organization specializing in abduction research, and the source for the original implant material.

As related in Dr. Leir's book, THE ALIEN AND THE SCALPEL, Sims and Leir met at a UFO convention where Sims was a featured speaker. The initially skeptical podiatrist agreed to help organize the surgical removal of an anomalous object from the foot of one of Sims' patients. Other surgeries followed, and Sims and Leir formed the FIRST partnership to focus on the medical and scientific analysis of the objects. Recently, as part of the NBC special Confirmation, Sims and Leir consulted on the surgical removal of a possible alien implant.

Although some of the testing results of FIRST's work have been available on their web site or discussed by other researchers, Sims stresses that "much more testing and research is needed before any conclusions can be drawn." To this end, he has formed strategic alliances with scientists from all over the world eager to contribute their expertise. A former private investigator, Sims is extremely concerned with the special handling, maintenance and archiving of samples and artifacts. "Security and proper chain-of-evidence will be the hallmark of FIRST from now on," he promises.

Leir stepped down as Section Director for the Ventura County chapter of MUFON. "Dr. Leir's participation in the surgeries and the follow-up has been an important part of FIRST," acknowledges Sims. "Now we are moving in an exciting new direction, with improved efficiency and resources. We currently have a Cardio Vascular Surgeon with impeccable credentials, as well as other M.D.'s on our staff. We currently have a new podiatrist as well who advises us on foot surgeries. "



[edit on 23/202/07 by Southpaw11]

Originally posted by nightsescape
southpaw from your posts you seem like a bible thumping redneck. your posts are scary to read becuase it seems like its coming from someone who is really mentaly deranged. please take your medication for the sake of all the people that actually want to debate and not force our opinions on others on ats.

WOW.

THIS is a textbook example of making a CONCIOUS CHOICE to be a part of the "problem" instead of the "solution".

Gotta tell ya... I am the FARTHEST thing from a "bible thumping redneck" that you could probably achieve. YOUR faith is NONE OF MY BUSINESS. YOUR FEAR is more than OBVIOUS. I feel for you. YOU and a veritable plethora of people within the ATS community.

I have referenced the BIBLE and CHRISTIANITY as HISTORICAL DOCUMENTATION. ANCIENT KNOWLEDGE.

PLEASE. If NOTHING else... SEE THAT MUCH. NO ONE in here is getting bashed about being atheist, muslim, satanic, whatever... NONE OF THAT MATTERS. Do you not understand this?

YOUR religion don't mean SQUAT in this matrix, bro. What matters is that YOU and EVERYONE ELSE here start realizing that "Deny Ignorance" MIGHT just INCLUDE reading the bible, the Qu'ran, Hebrew Texts, Sumerian Texts, Hindu Texts, Math Books, Batman and Spiderman comic books, Edgar Allen Poe, Zecharia Sitchin... ALL OF IT.

See... I'm NOT here to engage a discussion in "theology". THAT was not the way of Christ, and I don't feel the LEAST BIT of obligation to help save ANYONE that does NOT want to save themselves... period. And THAT is a "feeling" locked DEEP INSIDE my own PERSONAL opinion... so don't waste your time, mine or anybody else's arguing the point... YOU WIN.

LOL! Seriously... leave "faith" out of the discussion... "religion" and the comprehension thereof by the "layman" has become simply so confounded that mere mention of the BIBLE, even in reference to something COMPLETELY outside ANYONE's quest for "faith", scares the living crap out of everbody and they FEEL like THEY are being JUDGED.

Man... lay down that weight bro... you don't deserve to carry it... not a bit.

Now...

My Associate Degree is in LAW ENFORCEMENT
My FIRST BA is in Political Science
My SECOND BA is in History

And THAT was AFTER I turned down appointments to West Point, USCGA, USMMA, NAPS. I also was offered 4 year scholarships from the Army, USAF, and USN. I TOOK the Navy Scholarship. There are only 1000 of those offered annually.

I have about 8 years Search and Rescue, 11 years investigation experience, 30 years music and guitar, 30 years soccer, including varsity collegiate experience at both a small time div III school and an NCAA div I school... had my pilot's license prior to my drivers license.

When I was a kid I was the ranking cadet in the Vermont Wing CAP, commanded my squadron, my Wing Drill Team, my Wing LRT, am a member of the North Central Region Special Services Corps, AKA "the Blue Berets".

Here... www.blueberet.org Scroll down til you see "INTEGRITY IS THE WORD" That's more of my REDNECK mouth out there for the entire Civil Air Patrol, 36,000 members strong to see, read, and ABSORB.

I recently left an exectutive post where I was responsible for increasing a company's gross revenue (via marketing) by MORE THAN $10,000,000.00 in ONE YEAR.

I left THAT company, formed my own, and am President/CEO of that organization. My partners are (a) a USMC LTC RECON Marine and Unit Commander (b) the person I TRAINED to work with me on the marketing campaign described above, who happens to be a 15 year successful business owner who's secured accounts like WalMart and Sams Club for his own products. We have more 2000 CAT Adjusters on our roster, we have a Tactical Division that will be assisting Saber Enterprises (D. Sims) in their pioneering expedition work.

I ENJOY coming in HERE, because I am NOT going to have FEAR about ANY OF THIS. And I feel that NO ONE has to. I think we have a LONG WAY TO GO before humanity can finally grasp what CRIMES have been perpetrated against them for so long.

I ENJOY the challenges presented by SOME in here... in these ranks. I am ASTONISHED at how many people come here, have had events, and simply don't know where to go to get the help they need to get the answers they are looking for.

I hope to HELP in that respect... Likewise... there is ALWAYS room to learn. There is information that hovers around in here that, sometimes, gets tossed on the floor... and, whether ATS knows it or not... is really some of the most crucial evidence in your investigation at this juncture b/c it's the ONLY thing that can get you to a position which is in ADVANCE of where you are NOW.


REDNECK? MEDICATION?

I'd say you might want to check out "The Art of Strategy" (commonly mistranslated as the "Art of WAR") by Sun Tzu. In that text, you'll learn NOT to lash out nor attack an adversary you do not KNOW. Likewise, you'll save us ALL alot of time in the future.

Let's work TOGETHER. Whatayasay? Isn't that the BEST option? You'll also see the concept of ALLIANCES in that text above...



Would it be so rude were I to, without responding in kind, simply ask this:


The following is NOT stated in ANGER:

Was THAT your best response? Did you run out of information? Hit a BRICK WALL... so you felt the BEST option was to LASH OUT? Just so you know... with the crap that is happening to people on a daily basis right now... with the "sightings" starting to INCREASE in volume... just like they are probably supposed to... With EXPERT RESEARCHERS now following the PATTERN identified by none other than... yep... you guessed it... the CONSULTANT WE CHOSE... that YOU feel a need to bash... due to your lack of understanding... or something... I really do wish I could figure it out so I could help you.

With ATS members being able to CONFIRM they have actually had body parts like the scrotum LACERATED. That they have FOUND evidence of a "knob" attached to their right testicle... just like several OTHER of Derrel Sims' abductees... I would expect YOU to listen a little more intently...

But you don't. I hope we all learn to figure this out TOGETHER. THAT is the ONLY way we will get through.

You'll note... I've not "called you names" not "insulted your faith" not "insulted your integrity" not "questioned your intellectual ability"... I even CONCEDED to you...

Let's move FORWARD not BACK

ok i get your point i was wrong, sorry.

Originally posted by fooffstarr
How silly that looked?

Give me a break. You still didn't acknowledge what i said about opinions... just side-stepped the question again with a personal attack.

All that, once again, was YOUR OPINION. Not FACT. The Bible was written by MEN, passed down by MEN, re-written and translated by MEN. It is not a reliable source for scientific study. It is just a compilation of STORIES. That is my OPINION, and i am going to stick to it.

Oh, and yes i have read it. Cover to cover. Many years ago.

I'm not going to argue with you about it, because it is clear you won't discuss this civilly.

Now, could we get back on topic about Leir.

[edit on 21-2-2007 by fooffstarr]

Had another thought on this...

WHAT IF I present it this way:

YES. We should DEFINITELY agree to disagree, and accept that people have different opinons. IN FACT... we should INVESTIGATE ALL THE OPINIONS!

THAT WAY we will leave NO ROCK UNTURNED, right?

I think maybe THIS would have been a better way to present? (for ME).

SEPARATE THE PEOPLE FROM THE PROBLEM.

SPout

Originally posted by nightsescape
ok i get your point i was wrong, sorry.

Hey man... no worries... If NOTHING ELSE I'm going to do all I can to escape this lifetime without being cast as a HYPOCRITE. I'm no where CLOSE to perfect... so who am I to judge YOU. You see words that are COMPLETELY foreign... unfamiliar... and seemingly OFF THE WALL.

I would have probably reacted the same way.

See? We're the same. ALL OF US.

Get this... If we are to examine opinions.... Sims has evidence that has led him to believe that one of the methods involved... again... this is based upon more than 2000 SEPARATE cases... (so I trust the man's statistics, if nothing else, wouldn't you agree?)... anyway... the evidence shows him that "THEY" have the ability to "tempt" you via alteration of neurotransmitters, etc... to do the kind of thing that was done to FrozenThought.

Did you note how we ISOLSATED him? If you go back through that whole thread... and beleive me bro... I realize what a task this would be... but if we teamed up I can show you what I mean...

a) go back re read the thread. Pay CLOSE attention to what ATS is saying to FrozenThought.

b) remember... OPINION. NOT jamming anything anywhere. right? Get the Bible outta the closet... *evilgrin* cmon, dude.. laugh. that was funny. then open to the Book of Job. READ IT. I SWEAR I am not messing with you, and I SWEAR it's not some JESUS SAVED THE UNIVERSE realization I'm wanting you to find. Just read it. See the information about WHAT Satan is allowed to do.

REMEMBER... if we stick by Your Hypothesis... this means the Bible is a compilation of STORIES by MEN, right? Well... if abduction was happening THEN, would it be REALLY THAT farfetched to find evidence of it in the Bible? See what I mean? It is WAY complicated man... Perhaps even MANMADE METAPHOR to SATAN, no? "the evils of the world" presented as an "entity" in the Bible. THAT would correspond to your hypothesis, would it not? seriously. All BS and kidding aside.

Now...

The reason I bring ALL this up is this. Let's just ASSUME, for now, that it's ALL just a metaphor for ET. Try this on...

IF they can alter our neurotransmitters
IF they want to isolate each of us
IF they want us to succumb to temptation TO CAUSE CHAOS (maybe it's NOT related to GOD... but is STILL there, no? Again, METAPHOR, perhaps)
IF they can induce "aggitation". (THIS point can be confirmed by ONE person in here FOR A FACT. But it is up to that member to bring it up.... it is that member's experience/event... not mine)

Then would your response not have been right in line IF they had somehow infiltrated YOUR life and programmed in there "you will resist southpaw" LOL!! I KNOW! It even looks NUTS to me, bro... LOL crap. FOR REAL... KEEP GOING.

I havn't gotten those questions up yet. I'll do it right after this. Brother... go check them out. There are MANY people that had thought NONE of this applied to them... had a regression done... and were in a HEAP on the floor hyperventilating and crying like a baby, having recalled every single thing that had been done to them over the course of their entire lives.

Agian, I'm not going to embellish here, bro. I've got personnel, some with kids, that this affects, my own family included. I want ANSWERS. So if I sound "off the deep end" sometimes, I hope you will understand it's because I have been reading and reading and reading... consulting and consulting... SEARCHING.

Do you realize I have, now FOUR, was just TWO, now FOUR local college kids that work for me... 20 hours a week EACH researching things like structures on the moon, the hollow earth, structures on mars, on Iapetus, Junk DNA, Autism, and the credentials of other investigators. They've even found structures on the ocean floor. I can't believe some of the crap I am seeing... seriously. AND I'm not ready to release ANY of it yet b/c we don't KNOW yet what we're really looking at.

In THIS case... I think it might be intersting, just for giggles... to see what this hypothesis might produce. Are you game?

SPout

[edit on 23/202/07 by Southpaw11]