It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Israel threatens to make new borders

page: 1
0
<<   2 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Dec, 18 2003 @ 02:32 PM
link   
The Sharon government has dropped ALL pretense to trying to establish peace. They are shown for what they are, warmongering Zionist criminals.

I mean, who DOESN'T think this will kind of talk will cause MORE violence, not less.

story.news.yahoo.com.../ap/20031218/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_palestinians_031210190135

"Sharon Warns Israel May Create New Border

Sharon Warns Israel May Create New Border
1 hour, 26 minutes ago Add Top Stories - AP to My Yahoo!


By DAN PERRY, Associated Press Writer

Prime Minister Ariel Sharon said Thursday that Israel will take unilateral steps to establish a makeshift border, including relocating Jewish settlements, if Palestinians do not make moves toward peace within a few months

Sharon said Israel would speed up construction of a controversial security fence that cuts deep into the West Bank and use it to make a more easily defensible border with the Palestinians.

"This reduction of friction will require the extremely difficult step of changing the deployment of some of the settlements," he said. The prime minister did not name any settlements that might be moved and did not make clear if they would be relocated inside occupied territory.

Sharon also said Israel would "greatly accelerate" construction of the fence.


Sharon was delivering a long-awaited speech at a security conference in the Tel Aviv suburb of Herzliya, where he outlined his plans for future political moves.

The Palestinians and U.S. officials have harshly criticized Sharon's go-it-alone concept, which would not give the Palestinians as much territory in the West Bank and Gaza Strip as they seek or address other key Palestinian issues Jerusalem and refugees due to be resolved in negotiations.

The United States has also opposed the security barrier, which Israel says is needed to prevent militants from entering Israel and launching suicide attacks.


The barrier is a snaking line of trenches, guard towers, fences and razor wire. The northern 90-mile section of the barrier has been completed. A recently approved 228-mile southern section lies within the West Bank and would isolate 274,000 Palestinians in tiny enclaves and block 400,000 others from their fields, jobs, schools and hospitals, according to a recent U.N. report.


The final planned route could gobble up almost half the West Bank.


Sharon decided on a unilateral approach after long months of paralysis in efforts to start negotiations. He has been under increasing pressure from military commanders as well as the public and international leaders to resolve the conflict with the Palestinians.


"We are interested in conducting direct negotiations, but do not intend to hold Israeli society hostage in the hands of the Palestinians," he said in Hertzliya. "We will not wait for them indefinitely


If there is no progress toward peace in a matter of months, Sharon said, "then Israel will initiate the unilateral security step to cut itself off from the Palestinians."


Sharon has said Israel is committed to the U.S.-backed road map plan, which calls for incremental steps leading to a Palestinian state by 2005, and only would take one-sided action if peace efforts fail.


Violence continued early Thursday when Israeli troops conducting searches killed four armed Palestinians in clashes in the West Bank city of Nablus, a military spokeswoman said. Palestinian security sources said one of the dead was an unarmed baker.


The military said one man ran toward troops with an explosive and was shot as he approached, while in a separate incident, three masked men with automatic weapons shot at soldiers from a rooftop and were killed by return fire.


Earlier, Palestinian peace negotiator Saeb Erekat said the Palestinians would watch Sharon's address "very closely."


"We are hoping the Israeli government will prepare its people for what it takes to make peace, a meaningful peace process to end the Israeli occupation," he said.


"If they want to use unilateral steps, like building walls and settlements ... they may do it alone. But they will not have a partner on this side."

Israel seized the West Bank and Gaza Strip in the 1967 Middle East war and has since built 150 settlements in the territories, moving in about 220,000 Jewish settlers.

The Palestinians seek a state in the territories, home to roughly 3.5 million Palestinians, and the road map envisions such a state by 2005, reached through Israeli-Palestinian negotiations and a peace agreement.

In the interim, Israel is required to freeze settlement activity and the Palestinians are to dismantle militant groups steps neither side has taken.

Palestinian Prime Minister Ahmed Qureia has been trying to arrange a meeting with Sharon to restart talks on the road map since taking office in October. But the two sides have not agreed on an agenda.

Qureia has also been trying to secure a commitment from militant groups to halt attacks on Israel, a key first step toward resuming peace talks.

...

Many Israelis also fear that Israel will lose its Jewish majority if it continues to control the West Bank and Gaza. Israel itself has 5.2 million Jews and 1.3 million Arab citizens.

...


"The fact that time is not on our side, in all these aspects, leads to one conclusion: We must make any reasonable effort to bring about an end to this war as soon as possible and to create a solution we can live with," he said.

...

Some senior members within Sharon's own Likud Party, including Foreign Minister Silvan Shalom, say a one-sided pullback would invite more violence.

Meanwhile, settlers at the outpost of Migron, north of Jerusalem, welded trailers together and blocked roads on Wednesday ahead of an anticipated army move to evacuate the outpost, where 43 families live."



posted on Dec, 18 2003 @ 07:01 PM
link   
The fence was a good idea, I was all for it.



posted on Dec, 18 2003 @ 07:41 PM
link   
Is anyone surprised that the Sharon gov. wants to do this? That has been their intention all along. They want to slowly but surely drive all the palestinians away from their homes and keep all the land for themselves. That Sharon and his goons in MOSSAD are all just a bunch terrorist murderers. Yeah you heard me... I said it. They are all TERRORISTS.



posted on Dec, 18 2003 @ 07:43 PM
link   

Originally posted by Ocelot
Is anyone surprised that the Sharon gov. wants to do this? That has been their intention all along. They want to slowly but surely drive all the palestinians away from their homes and keep all the land for themselves. That Sharon and his goons in MOSSAD are all just a bunch terrorist murderers. Yeah you heard me... I said it. They are all TERRORISTS.


Even though it's the palestinian terrorists who are the murderers but whatever.



posted on Dec, 18 2003 @ 07:46 PM
link   
It is amazing how people can get so wrapped up in this like they are right over there!

There are two sides to any story usually.

The Palestinians had integrity with me until they started the suicide bombing attacks and now I am much less sympathetic to them.



posted on Dec, 18 2003 @ 07:49 PM
link   

Originally posted by THENEO
There are two sides to any story usually.

The Palestinians had integrity with me until they started the suicide bombing attacks and now I am much less sympathetic to them.


Actually, same story for me, too.



posted on Dec, 18 2003 @ 07:55 PM
link   
I will say it again, nothing will ever get done until the Palestanians and Israelis decide that they want peace. the only way this is going ot happen is if the citizens of both sides get fed up enough to finally do something about it.

As far as Israeli's being terrorists, well I guess you can call them whatever you would like. The fact remains that if your country was constantly being terrorized by suicide bombers and crazed meglomaniacs than maybe, just maybe you would appreciate what they actually do, do for Israeli citizens.
Without the Mossad, Israel would more than likely have about 15x the amount of suicide attacks than they have recieved since the beginning of the intifada.



posted on Dec, 18 2003 @ 08:18 PM
link   
In 1954, Israeli agents working in Egypt planted bombs in several buildings, including a United States diplomatic facility, and left evidence behind implicating Arabs as the culprits. The ruse would have worked, had not one of the bombs detonated prematurely, allowing the Egyptians to capture and identify one of the bombers, which in turn led to the round up of an Israeli spy ring.

www.whatreallyhappened.com...

Did Israel deliberately allow 241 American Marines to die?

Yes, says Victor Ostrovsky, a former Israeli secret agent. In a new book, By Way of Deception: A Devastating Insider's Portrait of the Mossad, Mr. Ostrovsky says the Israelis had advance notice of the suicide attack that killed 241 Marines in Beirut in October 1983 but withheld the information from the United States in the hope that the attack would poison American Arab relations.

www.whatreallyhappened.com...

THE ISRAELI SPY RING SCANDAL

Prior to 9/11, the FBI had discovered the presence of a massive spy ring inside the United States run by the government of Israel. This seems a harsh gratitude from a nation which obtains 10% of its annual budget from the American taxpayer, $3+ billion a year. Over the years, American taxpayers have been required to send Israel more than four times what the US spent to go to the moon.

www.whatreallyhappened.com...

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just some light reading for all you people here. Have fun.



posted on Dec, 18 2003 @ 08:20 PM
link   
A former Navy attorney who helped lead the military investigation of the 1967 Israeli attack on the USS Liberty that killed 34 American servicemen says former President Lyndon Johnson and his defense secretary, Robert McNamara, ordered that the inquiry conclude the incident was an accident.

www.whatreallyhappened.com...
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Some more reading people. Enjoy.



posted on Dec, 18 2003 @ 09:39 PM
link   
GO Iseral.... Get rid of those SCUMS!!!!!



posted on Dec, 19 2003 @ 12:45 AM
link   

Originally posted by Jakomo

Prime Minister Ariel Sharon said Thursday that Israel will take unilateral steps to establish a makeshift border, including relocating Jewish settlements, if Palestinians do not make moves toward peace within a few months


You see, there is this peace plan on the table. It's called the Road Map. It requires, among other things, for the Palestinian-Arabs to crack down on terror.

They refuse to do that. Instead, they offer excuses.

So Israel is building a security fence. The logic is pretty simple: If the Palestinian-Arabs won't stop the terror, Israel has too. A fence is a humane way to do it. You don't have to kill the terrorist, all you really have to do is stop him from getting from point A to point B.

Sure, it's a lot more expensive than other methods such as bombing the crap out of the Palestinian-Arabs, but Israel figures that it's worth the extra money not to have to kill so many people.

And for this they get criticized. Go figure.



posted on Dec, 19 2003 @ 01:25 AM
link   
As Dreamz posted above, nothing positive will occur until BOTH sides understand that peace is necessary for BOTH sides to live on. That's all there is to it.

Ocelot, i respect your opinions and your right to post them but i believe out of consideration to other members 1) it would be nice to stick to the topic at hand, and 2) if you would like to - as you state - provide reading for us, make your own new thread about it as it had nothing to do with the border issue. I simply can not see what on earth your links to those stories has to do with the current border conflicts other than to apparently make Israel look evil. You have no point. Everyone else stuck to the topic. The next time someone else posts about Mexico I'll be sure to post all of my mexican food recipes because apparently if the topic contains the word "Mexico" anything would be fair game right?

[Edited on 12-19-2003 by Djarums]



posted on Dec, 19 2003 @ 01:51 AM
link   

Unauthorized outposts will be dismantled, period. So said Prime Minister Ariel Sharon in his much anticipated address tonight (Thursday) at the Herzliya Conference.

There was great tension in the political and defense establishments in Israel and abroad as Prime Minister Ariel Sharon delivered his speech at the Herzliya Conference this evening. The speech was aired live on television across the world - even on the Arab Al-Jazeera network.

Prime Minister Sharon began by saying that Aliyah (Jewish immigration to Israel) is central to the state of Israel's existence. PM Sharon then turned his attention to the issue of unauthorized Jewish communities in Yesha (Judea, Samaria and Gaza).

Israel will fulfill its commitments, said Sharon. I made a commitment to US President Bush and I will fulfill that commitment. We will try to dismantle the outposts in the least painful possible way. There will be no new settlements and no incentives or tax breaks for residents of Yesha (Judea, Samaria, and Gaza).


Hmmm. Same speach, only in this one the reporter emphasises Sharon's promise to dismantle illegal settlements. Isn't this a step towards promoting peace?



posted on Dec, 19 2003 @ 01:55 AM
link   
The part about dismantling the very settlements criticized by the road map was conveniently not discussed in any posts regarding this topic previously. I find that interesting.



posted on Dec, 19 2003 @ 03:02 AM
link   

Originally posted by GodBlessAmerica


Even though it's the palestinian terrorists who are the murderers but whatever.


You have no #ing idea! Yes, the palestinian terrorists are wrong, they are helping to ruin any chances of peace just as Shron continues to do. However, the Palestinian people are shot at, killed and oppressed by the Isreali army every single day. People are stopped at Isreali borders when they need serious medical help over the other side. They die becuase of these crappy borders. Do you think these people are killing themselves for no reason? These people are blowing themselves up becuase they have seen their family die in front of them . The terrorists need to be stopped but so does the opression of the Palestinians.



posted on Dec, 19 2003 @ 08:03 AM
link   

Originally posted by earthtone

Originally posted by GodBlessAmerica


Even though it's the palestinian terrorists who are the murderers but whatever.


You have no #ing idea! Yes, the palestinian terrorists are wrong, they are helping to ruin any chances of peace just as Shron continues to do. However, the Palestinian people are shot at, killed and oppressed by the Isreali army every single day. People are stopped at Isreali borders when they need serious medical help over the other side. They die becuase of these crappy borders. Do you think these people are killing themselves for no reason? These people are blowing themselves up becuase they have seen their family die in front of them . The terrorists need to be stopped but so does the opression of the Palestinians.


I can agree with that. Although I still believe that checkpoints and such are almost mandatory when you have people blowing themselves up at random throughout the country.



posted on Dec, 19 2003 @ 08:03 AM
link   
Djarums: "The part about dismantling the very settlements criticized by the road map was conveniently not discussed in any posts regarding this topic previously. I find that interesting."

That's not in the article I referenced, where did you find it? I saw no mention of it in the Haarestz article that has the transcript of his entire speech, too, interestingly enough.

www.haaretz.co.il...


Mycroft: "You see, there is this peace plan on the table. It's called the Road Map. It requires, among other things, for the Palestinian-Arabs to crack down on terror.

Er, it also called for Israel to halt settlements and to dismantle them. Israel NEVER wanted to follow the road map, the US has had more trouble with Sharon than they have with the Palestinians on getting any concessions.

"So Israel is building a security fence. The logic is pretty simple: If the Palestinian-Arabs won't stop the terror, Israel has too. A fence is a humane way to do it. You don't have to kill the terrorist, all you really have to do is stop him from getting from point A to point B."

Solid argument, except NOT EVERY PALESTINIAN IS A TERRORIST. Of course you understand that, so this fence is actually going to affect the 99.5% of the population that ISN'T radical suicide bombers. That's just piling on more oppression to the Palestinians.


"Sharon said the plan includes redeployment of the IDF along a "security line" in the territories, and evacuation of isolated settlements that Sharon said would in any case not be included in Israeli territory in any future settlement. At the same time, Israel will strengthen its control over "those parts of the Land of Israel that will be an inseparable part of the state of Israel in any future settlement."

Sharon called on the Palestinians to engage in negotiations and warned them that his disengagement plan would "clearly" leave them with "much less" than what they could get via direct negotiations through the road map. "We are interested in conducting direct negotiations, but do not intend to hold Israeli society hostage in the hands of the Palestinians. I have already said - we will not wait for them indefinitely."

If there is no progress toward peace in a matter of months, Sharon said, "then Israel will initiate the unilateral security step of disengagement from the Palestinians."


It sounds positively inflammatory, in fact.



posted on Dec, 19 2003 @ 08:19 AM
link   
Mycroft: "You see, there is this peace plan on the table. It's called the Road Map. It requires, among other things, for the Palestinian-Arabs to crack down on terror. I havent heard of the Palestinians doing a dam thing, in regards to this roadmap.

Er, it also called for Israel to halt settlements and to dismantle them. Israel NEVER wanted to follow the road map, the US has had more trouble with Sharon than they have with the Palestinians on getting any concessions.I believe Sharon is leaving occupying areas now and said that if the Palestinians would come ot the table, then he would offer more land to them.


Solid argument, except NOT EVERY PALESTINIAN IS A TERRORIST. Of course you understand that, so this fence is actually going to affect the 99.5% of the population that ISN'T radical suicide bombers. That's just piling on more oppression to the Palestinians.Ever hear the saying, 1 person can ruin it for the whole bunch. Well IMO that applies here. If Palestinians came out against what there "brothers" are doing then maybe they wouldnt have this fence going on.





If there is no progress toward peace in a matter of months, Sharon said, "then Israel will initiate the unilateral security step of disengagement from the Palestinians."
I really don't blame him that much. Look the Palestenians have brought nothing to the table. They have not promised safety for Israeli's if they do give away land. They have a defacto government at the moment and no real person to negotiate with. The plan is supposed to be enacted by 2005. If the Palestinians want to drag their feet, what is Sharon suppose to do?



[Edited on 19-12-2003 by Dreamz]



posted on Dec, 19 2003 @ 10:12 AM
link   
Dreamz: "I havent heard of the Palestinians doing a dam thing, in regards to this roadmap."

Then read about it. They've done a lot, and some of the reason militants haven't disarmed is because Israel has continued with ther "targetted killings' and "incursions" into the Gaza Strip and West Bank.

"I believe Sharon is leaving occupying areas now and said that if the Palestinians would come ot the table, then he would offer more land to them."

Your "belief" unfortunately has no basis in fact. WHERE does it say that Sharon will offer ANY more land to Palestinians I would love to know.

"Ever hear the saying, 1 person can ruin it for the whole bunch. Well IMO that applies here. If Palestinians came out against what there "brothers" are doing then maybe they wouldnt have this fence going on."

Yes, of course we must put the blame on the Palestinians for the wall. Even though it is Israel who thought of it, and is actually building it. It illegally annexes more Palestinian land, making it wrong.

"I really don't blame him that much. Look the Palestenians have brought nothing to the table. They have not promised safety for Israeli's if they do give away land. They have a defacto government at the moment and no real person to negotiate with. The plan is supposed to be enacted by 2005. If the Palestinians want to drag their feet, what is Sharon suppose to do?"

Drag their feet how? They've been through two Prime Ministers so far, trying to dance with Israel, an unwilling partner. If you blame every Palestinian for every suicide attack, it's called collective blame, and it's ignorant.

jakomo



posted on Dec, 19 2003 @ 11:37 AM
link   

Originally posted by Jakomo
Dreamz: "I havent heard of the Palestinians doing a dam thing, in regards to this roadmap."

Then read about it. They've done a lot, and some of the reason militants haven't disarmed is because Israel has continued with ther "targetted killings' and "incursions" into the Gaza Strip and West Bank.Yeah to root our\t suicide bombers. Would you let these groups continue to plot against you and your people or would you try to be pro-active and stop it before it happens.Im all for targeted killings of Islamic terrorists.

"I believe Sharon is leaving occupying areas now and said that if the Palestinians would come ot the table, then he would offer more land to them."

Your "belief" unfortunately has no basis in fact. WHERE does it say that Sharon will offer ANY more land to Palestinians I would love to know.The situation going on now of the withdrawal of troops in Gaza and the West bank is designed to give Palestinians land, and Sharon was directly quoted as saying that because Palestinians have not come to the table to discuss peace legitimately than he will leave them with less land than if they were to negotiatie seriously.

"Ever hear the saying, 1 person can ruin it for the whole bunch. Well IMO that applies here. If Palestinians came out against what there "brothers" are doing then maybe they wouldnt have this fence going on."

Yes, of course we must put the blame on the Palestinians for the wall. Even though it is Israel who thought of it, and is actually building it. It illegally annexes more Palestinian land, making it wrong.Im not blaming the Palestinians for building the wall, of course Israelis are building it. They are trying to find a way to seperate themselves with terrorist militants who want nothing more than to destroy Israelis. Are all Palestinians involved in this? Of course not, but they dont let their voices be heard.

"I really don't blame him that much. Look the Palestenians have brought nothing to the table. They have not promised safety for Israeli's if they do give away land. They have a defacto government at the moment and no real person to negotiate with. The plan is supposed to be enacted by 2005. If the Palestinians want to drag their feet, what is Sharon suppose to do?"

Drag their feet how? They've been through two Prime Ministers so far, trying to dance with Israel, an unwilling partner. If you blame every Palestinian for every suicide attack, it's called collective blame, and it's ignorant.Why have they been through 2 prime ministers? Because Arafat wount relinquish control to these prime ministers. How can you have a legit government when you got 2 people going against eachother on what steps should be taken next. It wont work until Arafat is out of the picture.They contradict eachother in terms of what they are trying to accomplish.

The facto fo the matter is nothing is going to get done between these two until the people of both come together and demand peace. Until then, they will keep playing a game of cat and mouse. If either side wanted peace as bad as they say they do, they could both reach an agreement. Im not saying Israel is "above the law", but it takes two to tango. I feel for the Palestinians who don't have their voices heard and have to be stopped by Israeli checkpoints, but this didnt come from no where. It came because the "evil" portion of the Palestinians made their voice heard over the peaceful. Its really a shame, but thats the way life is.





top topics



 
0
<<   2 >>

log in

join