Zombies in the end times? A new twist on the Rapture

I know this might sound crazy but if you here me out, it might make you re-think some things. I have done my research on the Christian perspective of the ends times. Now as some may know, in the past there have been instances where priests or common men have avidly proclaimed that they themselves were able to interpret and shed light on prophetic sections of the bible. I believe that these types of men's interpretations on the book of Revelation to be one of the biggest misconceptions in the Bible. I want to put my focus on one single issue that has been modernized and 'sold', so to speak, to people. There are so many movies, books, and talk about how the supposed "end times" is to take place. One of the main events that many Christians await is called "The Rapture". And again this may be old news for some of you, but for the ones who haven't heard, the word "rapture" is not mentioned at all in any of the books of the bible. Instead the translation of the original Latin word, "rapturo" translates to the Greek verb meaning "Caught up". It was the Jesuit Priest Ribera who coined the term "rapture". When the mid-1800's came about an anglican minister, John Nelso Darbey, began to speak of "dispensationalism" that is a sort of 'secret rapture'. Anyways, the point I'm getting at is that rapture and caught up can mean two different things. The idea of rapture in the minds of fundamentalist Christians consist of a vanishing of some sort in which one minute a person will be there and no more than "a blinking of an eye" they will be gone. As an outsider looking in, it may be difficult to grasp such a concept, unless that is if you have an open mind about UFO's and higher beings of intelligence (but that's another discussion). Christians also back this belief in the rapture up by qouting what can be found in the book of Matthew when the apostles ask Jesus about the ends times . He responds, "Two men will be in the field, one will be taken and the other one left.."(if you want to read the whole paragraph it's Matthew 24:37-42).
If you listen to the evangelists, preachers, authors, and such, you'll begin to notice that all follow a sort of cronological path all including the rise of the anti-christ (which this word is also not mentioned in the Bible instead it says "the beast" but again this is another argument) and either before/after the powershift the rapture takes place, the great battle at megiddo and then finally the glorious "second coming" of Christ. My question to you is, could it possibly be that neatly put? Is it not obvious that the second these things begin to fall into place that the people will not say, "hey I saw this in a movie" or "hey that's what my neighbor was talking about" or "hey, those damn Christians were right" (no offense mind you). Perhaps I'm just a complex person but I really sat back and thought about in. I asked myself what would draw massess of people to one man and almost immediately (within or around the period of seven years) transform them and bring about global peace. That alone sounds impossible, not to mention having one government, one religion, one currency, and so on. How could one man truly do this? I concluded that something far worse than what has already been witnessed in the history of man must occur and I tied this to the concept of a rapture. I am not shutting down the rapture I do believe that something is happening but I think it's been interpreted wrong. I believe that being caught up means spritually leaving the body. Now a perfectly healthy body without a soul makes that person brain dead right? Now on a grand scale picture millions of people being "caught up" leaving perfectly good bodies behind. If demons truly do exist, would they not take advantage of this moment by possessing these bodies? If you think this is a stupid idea then I ask you this, why does it say that "the dead in christ shall rise first" if their souls are already in paradise? Sounds like zombies to me

[edit on 23-1-2007 by leira7]

Originally posted by leira7
I know this might sound crazy but if you here me out, it might make you re-think some things. I have done my research on the Christian perspective of the ends times. Now as some may know, in the past there have been instances where priests or common men have avidly proclaimed that they themselves were able to interpret and shed light on prophetic sections of the bible. I believe that these types of men's interpretations on the book of Revelation to be one of the biggest misconceptions in the Bible. I want to put my focus on one single issue that has been modernized and 'sold', so to speak, to people. There are so many movies, books, and talk about how the supposed "end times" is to take place.

One of the main events that many Christians await is called "The Rapture". And again this may be old news for some of you, but for the ones who haven't heard, the word "rapture" is not mentioned at all in any of the books of the bible. Instead the translation of the original Latin word, "rapturo" translates to the Greek verb meaning "Caught up". It was the Jesuit Priest Ribera who coined the term "rapture". When the mid-1800's came about an anglican minister, John Nelso Darbey, began to speak of "dispensationalism" that is a sort of 'secret rapture'. Anyways, the point I'm getting at is that rapture and caught up can mean two different things. The idea of rapture in the minds of fundamentalist Christians consist of a vanishing of some sort in which one minute a person will be there and no more than "a blinking of an eye" they will be gone.

As an outsider looking in, it may be difficult to grasp such a concept, unless that is if you have an open mind about UFO's and higher beings of intelligence (but that's another discussion). Christians also back this belief in the rapture up by qouting what can be found in the book of Matthew when the apostles ask Jesus about the ends times . He responds, "Two men will be in the field, one will be taken and the other one left.."(if you want to read the whole paragraph it's Matthew 24:37-42).

If you listen to the evangelists, preachers, authors, and such, you'll begin to notice that all follow a sort of cronological path all including the rise of the anti-christ (which this word is also not mentioned in the Bible instead it says "the beast" but again this is another argument) and either before/after the powershift the rapture takes place, the great battle at megiddo and then finally the glorious "second coming" of Christ. My question to you is, could it possibly be that neatly put? Is it not obvious that the second these things begin to fall into place that the people will not say, "hey I saw this in a movie" or "hey that's what my neighbor was talking about" or "hey, those damn Christians were right" (no offense mind you). Perhaps I'm just a complex person but I really sat back and thought about in. I asked myself what would draw massess of people to one man and almost immediately (within or around the period of seven years) transform them and bring about global peace. That alone sounds impossible, not to mention having one government, one religion, one currency, and so on. How could one man truly do this? I concluded that something far worse than what has already been witnessed in the history of man must occur and I tied this to the concept of a rapture.

[the meat and potatoez]
I am not shutting down the rapture I do believe that something is happening but I think it's been interpreted wrong. I believe that being caught up means spritually leaving the body. Now a perfectly healthy body without a soul makes that person brain dead right? Now on a grand scale picture millions of people being "caught up" leaving perfectly good bodies behind. If demons truly do exist, would they not take advantage of this moment by possessing these bodies? If you think this is a stupid idea then I ask you this, why does it say that "the dead in christ shall rise first" if their souls are already in paradise? Sounds like zombies to me.

[edit on 23-1-2007 by leira7]

Hey there, I took the liberty of splitting your post up into paragraphs because the content is actually pretty interesting. I have not heard this idea before. I have read the parts about the dead walking the earth in the end times, and ive read about the rapture not being quite as concrete as some evangelicals make it seem, that it is based upon certain passages of revelation and another book that leave much to be desired in terms of..

"How could this possibly mean that a mass-rapture is going to take place? The math only adds up to 144,000?" [book of revelation]

So, I personally dont think a mass rapture event being carried out by the one known as God to the monotheistic religons [christians/muslims/jews/gnostics/others] will take place during the end times. The text itself says a number of virgin male jews, evenly drawn from each of the 12 tribes of Israel will be 'raptured', totalling 144,000 men.. if you do the math provided in the text. And it doesnt use the word rapture either, it just says theyll be taken by God before the "septic tank hits the windmill" (sh*t hits the fan? hehe).

But! Your idea of bodies without souls is compelling! Why else would the dead walk the earth in the end times, I wondered. I thought up to now that it must mean that there may be some kind of disease or virus so prevalent in the end times that most people have it, and the symptoms of it could make people look 'dead' .

Or I thought it meant that all the souls of the dead would be risen from their Earthly resting places to take part in the Judgement along with the people whom are still alive and are on the right path by the end of the Tribulation. This would give the appearance of the dead walking the earth because you'd see apparitions that would be shaped like people, but this doesnt hold much weight because they wouldnt be walking around all dead-like.

Hmm.. you've got me thinking hard about this. Okay, lets say that there IS a massive rapture event, and the souls are taken up from the flesh bodies, while the flesh bodies are left on Earth, walking around aimlessly as if they were dead and 'zombies'. The feds would have to spin that massive event off as being a deadly virus epidemic that attacks the brain of the victim making them braindead yet still "alive" and moving. They wouldn't eat brains of course!!

[edit on 1/25/2007 by runetang]

The whole "end times" ideology is something I have posted much about. When it comes to the book of Revelation it seems that many people's imaginations go a little coo-coo.

People don't step back from their modern day minds and try to put themselves in the shoes of those who saw the visions. Can you imagine what the appearance of a tank must have been like to the mind of an ancient prophet? Pretty horrifying.

Now, I don't mean to make light of a serious topic, but people's ideas about how the "end times" will be and how they actually will be are two separate things all together.

To really understand the book of Revelation, one must understand the mindset of the prophet. A warship probably appeared very much like a floating city to the mind of the prophet... Any machine that had the capability of coming out of the water and banking on the shoreline most probably seemed "beast like" to the prophet.

I don't mean to imply that things will not be bad, they certainly will, but I don't suspect it will be of the proportions that modern day man has invisioned.

[edit on 25-1-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

The Rapture is I believe where 144 000 of the most worth journey to Gods region in the upper universe close to him. This journey is done via the Spiritual Earth when it splits away from the Temporal Earth ( reversal of the Union of Polarity ) with the rest being left here ( HEll ) to fend for ourself.

I have spoken about this in numerous threads, its just my opinion based on reading lots of similar stuff.

Originally posted by mazzroth
The Rapture is I believe where 144 000 of the most worth journey to Gods region in the upper universe close to him. This journey is done via the Spiritual Earth when it splits away from the Temporal Earth ( reversal of the Union of Polarity ) with the rest being left here ( HEll ) to fend for ourself.

I have spoken about this in numerous threads, its just my opinion based on reading lots of similar stuff.

Mazzroth,I think you may be somewhat correct.. I have actually written an essay and posted here at ATS about taking the "mark of the beast" and what that implies to the individual who takes it..

Here is a link to that thread...

Real sin Of Taking The Mark

Now, the thread doesn't explicitly concurr with what you have said; however, i think it gives a general overview of why it will happen the way that it will...

Mazzroth, you actually opened this thread up to some pretty interesting conversation, not to say that it wasn't initially... However, this is a varied topic that the OP has initiated..

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
People don't step back from their modern day minds and try to put themselves in the shoes of those who saw the visions. Can you imagine what the appearance of a tank must have been like to the mind of an ancient prophet? Pretty horrifying.

Now, I don't mean to make light of a serious topic, but people's ideas about how the "end times" will be and how they actually will be are two separate things all together.

To really understand the book of Revelation, one must understand the mindset of the prophet. A warship probably appeared very much like a floating city to the mind of the prophet... Any machine that had the capability of coming out of the water and banking on the shoreline most probably seemed "beast like" to the prophet.
[edit on 25-1-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

I agree with this, but you also need to consider their use of the term "world" was the entire Earth destroyed or only the parts they knew existed? Because my 'world' would be different from yours and to an ancient human it would have been vastly different again - these prophecies could very wel be events only affecting the middle east.
An example would be Noahs floods - he says that the whole world was flooded, but I bet it seemed that way to the people involved in the Asian tsunami - they talk about water filling the sky from horizon to horizon. That's not accurate to events, but it is accurate to what they saw, if you see what I mean.

In the same vein, we also need to look at the word'dead' - are they really corpses or are they the mindless drones you see on the subway every morning?...Or perhaps even people who have lost all heart, all hope, are only out for themselves and feel no pity or hope and therefore dead inside?

As to the 144, 000 that is only the initial wave from what I understand.
So more could be turned into 'zombies' after that point. If the demons are able to use a corpse the ones already in possession of bodies would simply go on a killing spree to make more cadavers for their mates to use. (Could that be the purpose of the mark? To show predator and prey?)

Awesome idea though, it really got me thinking.

You have voted ilandrah for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have one more vote left for this month.

Very,very true. So true that I gave you the way above award... I didn't state any of what you said in my post but I would say that it would certainly fall in line with my line of thought. Yes. Thanks for posting ilandrah

I dont take the bible too literally. Much like you seem Speaker, I tend to see the intricate, vast symbolism that is in the bible as symbolism and not as literal -- no big scaley godzilla like beast coming out of the ocean, but rather an armada of carriers, missle subs, and missle ships breathing fire like a true beast via their missles and guns and such.

The funny thing is, the Harlot 'Mystery Babylon' is supposed to 'ride' this beast. Hmm.. I hate to say it but.. the next U.S. President could very likely be a woman. The 3rd in-line to be president should the president and vice pres not be able to fulfiill the duty is already a female, Nancy Pelosi.

So let me ask you this; what happens when Hillary Clinton decides to go for the female vote across party lines by going with a female VP running mate, such as Barbara Boxer of California? Lol, then all 3 posts would be filled with women. I dont know if that would be awesome or scarey.. hmm.

Interesting opinions...

But you're all right. The Rapture is a seling point Priests use. It isnt mentioned in the texts. Besides, when the 7 seals are opened, the 144,000 will remain on earth. They are given seals with the name of god and they will be spared from the plagues. Remember "The Beast" will go to make war against them.

As for the dead in Christ, it doesnt mean zombies. When we die, we dont automaticall enter Heaven or Hell. You still have the freedom of choice just as you did in life. You can roam as a ghost (undead) or await in what the Hebrews call "Sheol". A spiritual waiting area for souls. When Judgment Day comes, all souls from the times of Adam and Eve will be judged. The dead in Christ means those who died as martyrs and believers of Christ from his walking days until now will remanifest themselves on Earth and speak out against the evils this world.

They are judged first and the christ will speak on their behalf. Then the 7 seals are opened. The Living 144,000 will be protected until the seals are done, then their true test of faith against "the Beast" will be given. Those days arent too far off.

Persia, Arabia, Russia and China make up the Four Beast. The Beasts are Kingdoms. But I also believe Arabia can be substituted with the US. The way things are, I wouldnt be surprised if America played a huge part in the end of days.

Thats my perspective. I'm no more holier than the next man, but religious studies have intrigued me since my childhood and I spend days studying different beliefs and philosophy.

The text itself says a number of virgin male jews, evenly drawn from each of the 12 tribes of Israel will be 'raptured', totalling 144,000 men

I have no wish to provoke others' defence of their religious beliefs. I feel we've wasted enough time and lives in that pursuit.

However, ' 144,000 male virgin jews, evenly drawn from each of the 12 tribes of Israel' really isn't relevant & doesn't merit serious discussion in 2007, particularly amongst the non-jew 99% of the world's population.

That which inspired, awed, frightened and cowed tribes of goat-herders a few thousand years ago should be taken in the context it was written and preached, way back then. 144,000 was undoubtedly a 'big number' then. And as jews dictated what their God did and did not mean, it's logical they would include only themselves in their god's plans.

I strongly suspect MY God is not the jews' god.

MY God would not be so infantile and egomaniacal as to demand I slit my child's throat as proof of my unqualified love (for Him). MY God doesn't need that sort of 'proof'. He's mature. Nor would he choose to stress me out so pointlessly. Further, he's my CHILD's God too, and wouldn't subject my CHILD to that sort of pointless, BLOOD-LUSTING stress.

Nor would MY God play favourites amongst the inhabitants of this world, as the jews' god does (according to the jews, who're telling the story and claiming to be their gods' favoured people).

Let's face it, the god of the jews is revealed as being far too fallible and flawed and lower-human in character. The jews' god is the equivalent of a red-neck bully.

The jews claim their god pronounced himself as 'jealous'.

Jealousy is a classic sign of insecurity and immaturity.

The jews reveal their god to be contradictory. Contradiction demonstrates lack of clarity, purpose or clue, particularly when it concerns the fate of millions.

The jews have always claimed their god favoured them above all else, similar to an immature, non-too-bright, divisive mother who champions one of her children at the expense of the rest.

Such parental behaviour does no favours to either the favoured-child or those unfairly discriminated against. All it does it grant power to the corrupt parent while it corrupts the favoured-child. That favoured-child fails to develop or learn about fairness and justice. It is a brat, loathed by all. And when its doting parent dies, that brat is forced to learn in a real-world all the hard lessons and normal character development it had so far evaded.

Most destructive of all is the divisions, life-long, created by that god/parent between its favoured brat and the rest of society.

Would I want anything to do with a god that was intent on division, upon championing a self-created brat ?

No thank you !

People do NOT need to steep themselves in the Bible or scripture or the 'hidden meanings & prophecies' contained in predominantly jewish religion or writings, to know that they are NONSENSE !

Common sense alone demands that anything that singles out '144,000 jewish male virgins' as being the ONLY creatures the REAL God has any interest in, be regarded as archaic rubbish !

There DOES exist a 'God' or Ultimate Source (or whatever term you prefer). This is made obvious by our mere existence. Regardless of how remote the source, we CLEARLY were created by 'some' thing.

Prove it for yourself. Create something out of nothing. Stand or sit or lie there, and manifest something from nothing. Use your mind if you like, or wave your arms around. Mumble whatever incantation you like. When you've created something from absolutely nothing, please photograph it and post it in the forums.

Whether we exist as a concept, or whether in material form or in 'reality', we nevertheless exist in some form.

If you wish to claim we brought ourselves into being in this dimension as the consequence of 'thoughts' or 'will', makes no difference. The fact that 'you' as a source, may have created your current life (in whatever form it exists) demands that 'you' in turn, are part of something else and part of someone else's 'thoughts' or 'will'. It all leads back to an Ultimate Source. You may call it God if you choose.

But the fact that many PAST enemies of the jews were in fact worthwhile beings, is beyond dispute. Yet according to the jews, their god promised those jews that he would 'slay' their enemies who in fact were ALSO entitled to expect protection, guidance and love from this god ---- * IF * in fact, he was the REAL God.

The story/fables/wishful thinking bequeathed us (as Christian religious belief) by the jews of several thousand years ago are tantamount to your watching on Oprah some people who revealed that their OWN FATHER murdered several of his children to appease just ONE of those children: his favourite child.

Now, as then, we would decide that it was the CHILD himself who had murdered his siblings, afterwards writing in his diary that his FATHER had committed the crime. Today, that MURDEROUS CHILD would swiftly be put in jail for life.

But it was not on Oprah, two, three thousand years ago. Instead, the diary (Bible) was passed down to us as being 'the word of god'. In that diary, the jews claim their FATHER was the one who committed the murders and who favoured the diary-writer above all others.

" I was his favourite ! " claimed the diary, " And Dad (the god guilty of favouritism and divisiveness) is going to come back one day, and tell EVERYONE that I AM his FAVOURITE ! And then he's going to kill all of you and give you lots of grief. But he will take ME to live with him in his luxury apartment. So ha ha ha. ".

Sounds like a really mature, decent-natured FATHER(god) and BRAT, don't they ? You REALLY have SO much reason to trust and belive in them ---- NOT.

It's difficult to accept (and not laugh about) the fact that otherwise intelligent people (who're capable of seeing right through CONTEMPORARY Bull-sh*t) are prepared to bend their good brains to accomodate such illogical, spiritually-toxic propaganda as: 144,000 male virgin jews will be 'saved' by this INVENTED and unworthy 'god' while the rest of the world's 6 billion souls will be left for crows and demons to pick.

No. Sorry. The REAL God doesn't operate like that.

It would be hoped that many are already fully aware of that.

Very true Dock6...

But the bible doesnt contain only Hebrew writers, it also contains Greek and Roman input. By the time King James tranlated it he edited out ALOT if things. Thats why the Torah and parts of the Quran, the apocryphal books and the gnostics are held in high regards now.

Those who follow the new testament knows that the Book of Acts say that God is no respector of man. He has no favorite race. The "chosen" people were taken out of context by racists looking for an argument some time ago. God does have his chosen "people" though. Lets not forget those who spoke to him directly like Moses, Noah, Jonah, David etc.

And from the 12 Tribes come every race if you check their lineage and description. 144,000 people was an exact number given to John by Archangel Gabriel (I believe) so people take it literally. He has no reason to make up a number

I do agree that SOME people of the Jewish faith have built a wall around themselves and raise their own on a pedestal. But SOME of the Christians are no better. As a matter of fact, I heard an argument between two friends (thet seemed to be friends) about the Jews killing the Christ. I wanted to get involves so bad that my head hurt... It was the Romans who killed the Christ. It was the Romans who lead the first documented Holocaust w/ the Christians and that is why the Apostle Paul condemned Italy in the Apocryphal Acts. He and Peter ultimately met their deaths in Italy, but not before Peter cursed them. According to their documents, thats why half of italy is submerged in water. The Apostles put a curse on them and the city sank about 6 feet and killed a lot of people. Kinda hardcore, huh?

144,000 isnt a far fetched number. There are A LOT of people in this world who live for the 7 Deadly Sins. I really think 144,000 from 6 Billion people sounds about right. (thats just my opinion)

Hmm.. now you guys have me thinking,

144,000 in the 1st-3rd centuries A.D. wouldve been alot, but not that much.

I think it would be like 144 million out of 6 billion. That sounds about right. I do think there are good natured people in the world, just less than 1 in 6 people are one of them, when you add the world population, lol.

Originally posted by Judaz_Escariot
Interesting opinions...

But you're all right. The Rapture is a seling point Priests use. It isnt mentioned in the texts. Besides, when the 7 seals are opened, the 144,000 will remain on earth. They are given seals with the name of god and they will be spared from the plagues. Remember "The Beast" will go to make war against them.

You summed up my idea of what the "rapture" essentially will be. The "rapture," in my opinion, will not be this "wisping" away that so many have in their minds, and it most likely will not be the ones who think they will get the seal of God that actually gets it.

The "rapture" will essentially be the divine protection from the plagues that will come upon the earth. A person that has the seal of God could be in the epicenter of a nuclear blast and survive it.. I know, it sounds even more bizarre than the "wisping" away scenario, but, that is the conclusion that my studies and what I feel God has shown me has brought me to.

That which inspired, awed, frightened and cowed tribes of goat-herders a few thousand years ago should be taken in the context it was written and preached, way back then. 144,000 was undoubtedly a 'big number' then. And as jews dictated what their God did and did not mean, it's logical they would include only themselves in their god's plans.

I strongly suspect MY God is not the jews' god.

I didn't realize that so many viewed things from the same perspective as I do... It's relieving to know that one is not alone in their beliefs..

[edit on 29-1-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

i don't think those who came before christ went straight to heaven. one example of this is when saul summons the witch to ask for advice and she calls up the ghost of samuel. so, in turn i think it is these people who will rise up from the dead. right now they are just in a holding place or "sleeping".

Originally posted by Judaz_Escariot
. As a matter of fact, I heard an argument between two friends (thet seemed to be friends) about the Jews killing the Christ. I wanted to get involves so bad that my head hurt...

It was the Romans who killed the Christ.

Uh,no, it is true that the Romans carried out the execution, but the Romans were not the ones who wanted the execution. The Pharisee and Seducees, which were JEWS, were the ones who ordered the execution of Christ. The only reason the Romans were even involved in the execution of Christ was because Jewish law prohibited crucifixion.

Very true, it was the Sadds and the Phars who wanted his death, but Pilate out of fear used the Jewish request of crucifixtion. But ultimately it was the Romans who whipped, beat and spit on him. They stripped Christ of his close, mocked him, cast lots for his belongings after death and a Roman spear pierced him. The Jews gave witness to the accounts as said by the Prophet Isaiah especially 53:5

"5 But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was upon him,
and by his wounds we are healed."

But the main idea is that the Sadds amd Phars from that time couldve killed him, and had many attempts too. They stoned and beheaded many in that time, but it was WRITTEN for Jesus to be handed over by the Jews and executed by the Romans.

Afterall, it is also believed that "The Beast" is Roman. Scholars today say that Nero Ceasar's number is 666. And he was notorius for slaying Christians. Also the "7 Heads" of the beast represents 7 Hills, and Rome is known for its 7 Hills. The 10 Heads could be the Roman Empire and its predecessors. John wrote Revelations during the time of Nero. However, the visions of Daniel talks about the end of days. John's visions started with his current events, then Michael showed him the visions Daniel had.

In all honesty...think about it. Italy consider themselves to be the most religious place on eart. with the Popes and the Vatican and all, but they harbor dark secrets and curses passed from generations. I think its blasphemy for the vatcan to be named a Holy City when most of the REAL Christians who walked with Christ and the Apostles were killed on their grounds.



[edit on 29-1-2007 by Judaz_Escariot]

You have voted Dock6 for the Way Above Top Secret award.

Bravo, well put. I agree with you on that.

Why would people call God benevolant, where he is molevolant? And the 144 000 virgin males? What, is God a homosexual? Or hates women? or like Dock6 said, that God favours the Jews (I'm not being anti-semetic, just questioning God's wishes).

And if God is benevolant... God would allow any question of any nature. Curiousity is Man's nature too. Why does God want to punish everybody for questioning the creation (or anything that involves Him). Why don't you punish your children when they ask you where they come from. If everyone accepts everything the bible tells you, without question... then guess who's the one being ignorant.

If God wanted puppets... we wouldn't been here (we would only exist physically then). And this whole, "the world is going to end, prepare for the rapture", thing... it really sounds like God is getting bored and wants to pick his favourite children (or should I say "boys)... that is why I don't belive in this whole "rapture" thing. It sounds like an episode of Star trek, "Beam me up, Scotty".

Maybe I should write a song:
"What if God was a terrorist?"


I'm WAY off topic

The zombie holocaust would really be fun. It'll be the only time where you can kill someone, because he's already dead (undead). Or better yet, wait for the zombies at the other end of an escelator they'll be climbing forever (well, until the power gets cut off).

Originally posted by Judaz_Escariot
Afterall, it is also believed that "The Beast" is Roman. Scholars today say that Nero Ceasar's number is 666. And he was notorius for slaying Christians. Also the "7 Heads" of the beast represents 7 Hills, and Rome is known for its 7 Hills. The 10 Heads could be the Roman Empire and its predecessors. John wrote Revelations during the time of Nero. However, the visions of Daniel talks about the end of days. John's visions started with his current events, then Michael showed him the visions Daniel had.

In all honesty...think about it. Italy consider themselves to be the most religious place on eart. with the Popes and the Vatican and all, but they harbor dark secrets and curses passed from generations. I think its blasphemy for the vatcan to be named a Holy City when most of the REAL Christians who walked with Christ and the Apostles were killed on their grounds.
[edit on 29-1-2007 by Judaz_Escariot]

Very correct in both aspects. To interpret the Bible is a tough task. To involve yourself with what is written than and what happens now is quite impossible. Place each quote with the complexity of its meaning. The Bible is to teach and give value to its reader. Trust in the words of the Prophets who spoke with God and the words of Christ himself. Amongst other ideals the number 144,000 cannot be changed (that is if you take the text word for word.) Otherwise of course it can be separated to todays times. I like to reiterate the fact that what John saw is not exactly as it is stated in the text. "The Beast," no one knows who or what that is....only the Lord. Yet we can decipher qualities. The Dragon with 7 heads ...could resemble a weapon. I go back to what others had posted earlier...taking the text literally sets you up to see what had happen before Christ.

I believe we must take what happens today and replace Johns eyes with our own and what he saw through what Michael..showed him, with what it relates to today... Man that's why I love numbers it is hard to debunk them !!!!

Originally posted by Judaz_Escariot
In all honesty...think about it. Italy consider themselves to be the most religious place on eart. with the Popes and the Vatican and all, but they harbor dark secrets and curses passed from generations. I think its blasphemy for the vatcan to be named a Holy City when most of the REAL Christians who walked with Christ and the Apostles were killed on their grounds.



[edit on 29-1-2007 by Judaz_Escariot]

Well, you are correct there. If you look at what the "church" did from 325A.D to the 13th century, it is really despicable. The "church" labeled any and everyone who didn't fall in line with doctrine as "heretics."

I can see why you'd blame the Romans; they are actually the ones who committed the acts... However, Christ told Pilate that his sins weren't as great as the sins of those who delivered him to Pilate.. So... I mean, I guess it's a matter of perspective but it would seem that Jesus accused the Jews, his deliverers, more than he did Pilate.