Checkpoints Make Their Debut in New Orleans - Big Brother Loves You

www.cnn.com...

His city under siege by a crime wave that killed nine so far this year, Mayor Ray Nagin said police will set up checkpoints in early-morning hours when about one-third of the city's violent crime occurs.

He stopped just short of imposing a curfew on New Orleans.

The checkpoints would target drug and alcohol violations as well as drivers without insurance.

Well, we can all breathe a big sigh of relief, having got that 'we told you so' off our chests.



New Orleans is not unique - their murder rate is not astounding. High? Yes. Off the charts, to the point where a national guard presence and checkpoints are warranted? No. Philly is having similar problems, same with Miami, Houston, and some others.

And yet, it's used as justification for random checkpoints, surveillance, a national guard presence, and more.

Speaking of the NG presence, it hasn't helped, so why maintain it? If I'm not mistaken, the murder rate has increased since the guard showed up, so why not chalk it up to a failed attempt and save the money for rebuilding?

I'm honestly surprised that the city hasn't tried to take more guns away. I figured that would follow hot on the heels of the murder spike. Maybe it's coming down the pipe?

[edit on 9-1-2007 by WyrdeOne]

www.statesman.com...

She said the security plan unveiled by Mayor Ray Nagin and Police Chief Warren Riley on Tuesday was solid.

New Orleans is thought to have less than half its pre-Hurricane Katrina population of almost 455,000.

Meanwhile, in suburban Jefferson Parish, Sheriff Harry Lee said that high-tech equipment such as armored patrol vehicles, as well as additional patrols, have helped slow killings there.

Here's what you'd be seeing if you lived in New Orleans.



Literally...

Maybe when troops and tanks are deployed in half a dozen major cities in the wake of a terror attack, people will wake up?

Or maybe they'll accept it, just like they're accepting it now.

Why are there tanks and troops on the streets of New Orleans?

Why does nobody care that there are tanks and troops on the streets of New Orleans?

So what was the "good reason" they put the NG in to "protect" the citizenry? A spike in crime? Can't the local poliece force do their job? this is the same police force that can handle millions of people durring marti gras every year but they can't handle a crime wave?

So it's nearly martial law in New Orleans for no reasons and nobody opposes it? Are people ``that`` brainwashed?

Of course, it's for the security of the people, like the nation-wide martial law that will happen when the next terrorist attack happens.

I don't want to put it the wrong way, and sound overdramatic, but well, yeah it is a nasty scene down here. Most people are for the militarization, or at least openly speak for it. The few people I know (myself included) that are against this are openly shunned by everyone else. I am told everytime I bring it up that I "don't understand how bad things are" and "I am so scared, I would take this any day."

How foreign would it seem to the rest of the U.S. to drive to your local Home Depot, and have a police checkpoint at the front, with high fences surrounding the area? Like this:


Or to walk out of your home, in an area basically unscathed by Katrina, and see 3 National Guardsmen standing on your corner, and eyeing you when they see you're taking photos of them? Like this:

Now the checkpoints, hailed by most here that speak out to be a blessing. What blessing is pulling traffic cops to perform checkpoints, in turn dragging patrols to accidents, leaving fewer officers the chance to even look for criminal activity in the first place, and I got that straight from a high up in NOPD. If crime was truly being taken seriously for the sake of crime, then it wouldn't have been done this way. A few lieutenants that I spoke to were justifiably angry that everything was being switched around to where there are less cops than before searching for criminal activity.

Yet again, we will be boxed in a little more, and we will find a rationalization to accept it. There will be a curfew, it's just a matter of when. As my landlord said last year, "the true looting of New Orleans will begin now, when the powers that be will test how far they can go."


[edit on 1/21/07 by niteboy82]

whatukno
Well, the official, original justification for bringing in the NG was a lack of police. Some of them fled the city (many were just looking after their families), a few were killed, and I think many of them were displaced by the flood and transfered to other departments.

The police force is short 300 bodies, or thereabouts, compare that to the population of the city, which is estimated at 50% of pre-Katrina levels. So, the city loses half its population, and just a bit more than 15% of its police force, and suddenly it warrants tanks on the streets, Blackwater mercenaries, and a semi-permanent National Guard presence?

The logic doesn't wash.

More info, old, but very relevant:

Anyone remember this? Notice the wording I've highlighted...

www.defenselink.mil...

We waited until we had enough force in place to do an overwhelming force. Went in with police powers, 1,000 National Guard military policemen under the command and control of the adjutant general of the State of Louisiana, Major General Landreneau, yesterday shortly after noon stormed the convention center, for lack of a better term, and there was absolutely no opposition, complete cooperation, and we attribute that to an excellent plan, superbly executed with great military precision. It was rather complex. It was executed absolutely flawlessly in that there was no violent resistance, no one injured, no one shot, even though there were stabbed, even though there were weapons in the area. There were no soldiers injured and we did not have to fire a shot.

Some people asked why didn't we go in sooner. Had we gone in with less force it may have been challenged, innocents may have been caught in a fight between the Guard military police and those who did not want to be processed or apprehended, and we would put innocents' lives at risk. As soon as we could mass the appropriate force, which we flew in from all over the states at the rate of 1,400 a day, they were immediately moved off the tail gates of C-130 aircraft flown by the Air National Guard, moved right to the scene, briefed, rehearsed, and then they went in and took this convention center down.

Those that were undesirable to re-enter the convention center were segregated from the people that we wanted to provide water, shelter and food. Those people were processed to make sure they had no weapons, no illicit dugs, no alcohol, no contraband, and then they were escorted back into the building. Now there's a controlled safe and secure environment and a shelter and a haven as they await movement out of that center for onward integration to their normal lives.

What are we talking about here? Are we talking about Iraq or New Orleans, I'm confused...

Here's testimony from the ground - it's supposedly been confirmed, though I haven't vetted it myself. This is an incredibly gripping tale, I think everyone should read it and carefully consider what this portends. It was written by paramedics attending a conference in town (I think) trying to survive the fallout, banding together with others, who found that the police presented a greater threat than the criminals. What's going to be different in your town?

sfsocialists.livejournal.com...

We waited late into the night for the "imminent" arrival of the buses. The
buses never arrived. We later learned that the minute the arrived to the City
limits, they were commandeered by the military.

Unfortunately, our sinking feeling (along with the sinking City) was correct.
Just as dusk set in, a Gretna Sheriff showed up, jumped out of his patrol
vehicle, aimed his gun at our faces, screaming, "Get off the #ing freeway".
A helicopter arrived and used the wind from its blades to blow away our flimsy
structures. As we retreated, the sheriff loaded up his truck with our food
and water.

Once again, at gunpoint, we were forced off the freeway. All the law
enforcement agencies appeared threatened when we congregated or congealed into groups of 20 or more. In every congregation of "victims" they saw "mob" or "riot".
We felt safety in numbers. Our "we must stay together" was impossible because
the agencies would force us into small atomized groups.

In the pandemonium of having our camp raided and destroyed, we scattered once
again. Reduced to a small group of 8 people, in the dark, we sought refuge
in an abandoned school bus, under the freeway on Cilo Street. We were hiding
from possible criminal elements but equally and definitely, we were hiding from
the police and sheriffs with their martial law, curfew and shoot-to-kill
policies.

This situation has not gotten the attention it deserves.

New Orleans appears to have been a test case and I, for one, do not like what I'm seeing.

niteboy
I really appreciate you adding your perspective to the thread.

If I was in your shoes, I would be tunneling to Mexico, I think, and cursing the high water table.

Seriously, I don't envy you. I was in Manhattan for 9/11, and seeing troops with rifles on the street corners felt like a punch in the gut to this American boy. This is not America. The fact that Americans are the ones screaming for these measures makes me so ashamed and afraid for the future. We seem to have become a nation of weak, terrified children, suckling at the glass teat and depending on big brother for every little thing.

What happened to the soul of this country? At one time this rag-tag band of rebels held off the greatest empire in the world with a little hep from the French. Now we're so afraid of each other, and the weather, we're willing to give up the freeom we fought for and won?

It just saddens me...

Originally posted by niteboy82

How foreign would it seem to the rest of the U.S. to drive to your local Home Depot, and have a police checkpoint at the front, with high fences surrounding the area? Like this:

Is actually not that foreign, see when I went back home to US territory of PR after 19 years, the big stores like Home depot and others . . . have watch towers with armed guards.

Yes I have witness this with my own eyes.

Odd?

Originally posted by marg6043
Yes I have witness this with my own eyes.

Odd?

Please do not think I am denegrating Puerto Rico, but PR is a territory, and not subject as far as I know to the same Constitution/Bill of Rights, as that of the United States. Though nonetheless unfortunate, the fact that such activites are taking place in the US would be much more of a reason to give me pause.

And still it goes, Marg, that humvees are regularly rolling through a major U.S. city with police powers.

Wyrde,

Yes, it remains a mystery to me how the justification of additional officers, be they Nat'l Guard or State Police are needed in such urgency when the ratio aspect of cops:citizens is so disproportionate to the purported "reality" of the situation. The needs are not justified.

I was at the last crime march (the big one that made the national MSM) and watched for any decent reaction to the decisions made. I hope that people were merely blinded by the distraction of the Saints, though that even is grasping at a straw I know is fully non-existent.

Ever since I saw that interview with some guy from Homeland Security who was endorsing Mayor Nagin at his campaign headquarters, election night, I knew that something was seriously wrong, and that it was going to continue to be so. What I would give to have that video saved to show people.

So is it still near martial law in NO? Is a curfew in effect? Do you have more pictures? Thanks!

I travel all over the city for work reasons (Social Services position).
While there is a distinct military presence here, I don't think it's as large as the media makes it out to be.

And although it has been almost a year and half since Katrina, it's still spooky to drive around and be the only car on the road and then to see a military Hummer turn the corner or to see them walking through deserted areas in groups of three with their guns hanging over their shoulders. It's something you just don't get use to seeing.

As for crime and how to handle it? There are simply far too many deserted areas and empty houses for criminals to hide. I don't know what the answer is.

Heya Again Curious

I'm bumping back up this thread, after reading this editorial.

The federal initiative will double the number of agents assigned to New Orleans and will expand their involvement. FBI agents will go on patrol with police officers and will knock on doors to try to create relationships with residents. DEA agents won't be limited to drug arrests but are being given the power to work all kinds of crimes.

I'm sorry, but this is just not good news. While I understand the emptiness of much of the city, Curious, and realize that while you are a social worker, and probably loaded with quadruple the work you normally will have, how much should we want federal police agencies to take on the duties at a local level like this.

I remember when the debate was over whether we should have a federal police force, and now we are sending federal agents to act as police officers.

I knew Helen Hill that was murdered, as she was a customer of mine. I understand the effects of murder on family/friends.

But I can probably guess that she wanted New Orleans to help New Orleans in this respect, not bring in federal police to fix the city.

Just my .02

*Edit to add:

Originally posted by VitcholoSo is it still near martial law in NO?
Is a curfew in effect? Do you have more pictures? Thanks!

Sorry Vitcholo, I hadn't seen that you had replied before now.

Contrary to popular belief, as far as I know New Orleans was never under a legal form of martial law. It isn't on our law books in Louisiana, the closest thing is a State of Emergency, where there are some differences. I have a feeling this is also how certain measures are being allowed to be initiated since we have no form of martial law to declare.

As for more pictures, I can go out tomorrow and snap some more shots while I'm off. I could have taken some today, but I am not about to start snapping shots of MP's in my work, as I am unclear on where my boss stands.

[edit on 1/28/07 by niteboy82]

Hello niteboy,

Nice to get hear from you again and I'm anxious to hear more of what you think on this subject.

As for the agents, it's nine more, for a grand total of 22 agents in the entire metro area. That doesn't have me too worried. Now if they were sending in 50- or even 100 more, then I'd be really concerned. Is your worry that you believe this to be the beginning of something larger to come?

70% of the metro area murders are now happening in our location. I'm sure you can figure out where that is. What do you think they should do to curb crime? I really don't know anymore.

I had written a long list of those I feel should be fired and/or voted out of office, but decided to delete it because it was too long. Need to start from the top and work their way down. One thing...I'm glad to see that more private citizens will be monitoring the actions of the courts. GREAT IDEA!

Concerning my work, our caseload is less than 1/2 of what it was pre-Katrina. Remember...more than half the population is gone.

Helena Hill...how horrible was that? Very sad day. I'm really sorry you lost your friend. She was a remarkable woman. Her husband wrote a long letter, it was published in yesterday's newspaper editorials. Did you see it?
It was a difficult read, he obviously loved her a great deal.

How come the rest of the country doesnt hear about this? For real!!! I am in the great lakes and had no idea the NG is still around NO, and that the jack booted thugs are running around in tanks. WTF?

This is indeed scary that the communication to the rest of the country does not exist ( or is filtered out in the MM )

Originally posted by akdivine
How come the rest of the country doesnt hear about this? For real!!! I am in the great lakes and had no idea the NG is still around NO, and that the jack booted thugs are running around in tanks.

Though I understand your concern as it may be, that there are still National Guardsmen in our area, I do find the terming of "jack booted thugs" to be offensive. They are nonetheless doing the job they are told to do, and I cannot totally hold them at fault, when they are only acting as police. I am against the whole idea of them being here, but I do not intend to ever generally debase them.

Originally posted by curiousoutherngal 70% of the metro area murders are now happening in our location. I'm sure you can figure out where that is. What do you think they should do to curb crime? I really don't know anymore.

I probably could generate the same list as you can. It is a shame that the march did not further the purposes as I thought it would. I should have expected that though, alas, I hoped for a little more.

What do I think of the small increase to these numbers? Well, I do see this as a stepping off point, as I have for a while now. Though I have to say that other ATS members have been much more vigilant in the past (kitsunegari, valhall, etc) on NOLA, I have to say that I am really weirded out that I can post on this subject in a devoted forum on ATS. It's weird when you are in the area affected and part of the subject on a smaller scale. Nonetheless, I do see this as a stepping off point. All you have to do is run down to the Hale Boggs building on a weekday and see the larger amount of Federal Police units that are parked around there. Much more than pre-K.

The question I guess in the beginning for me was "what will this lead to?" and that was for the NG here in the first place. Now it has been over a year, though goodness knows it seems as though it has been a decade since then, and I see how many locals now take the NG presence for granted, and hope to receive more in the future. That worries me, as the OP goes.. "Big Brother Loves You.."

Honestly, I just wish it was all over, but I am mindful of how the outcome may turn out.

Happy you have only half the caseload, i was thinking more along the lines of pysch-care, where I know we are severly understaffed still. Best wishes as always.

Oh no, Akdivine

We don't have tanks all over town! In fact, I've yet to see a tank here. The national guard is primarily focused on the deserted neighborhoods, which are located more on the outter parts of the city. I've seen them walking and driving around in Humvees in those areas, which are the more devastated and unpopulated. It's a large number of neighborhoods, covers miles and miles, but some residents are trickling back! The local police dept. is suppose to be keeping peace and taking care of business in the populated communities.

I pretty sure that's how it is. Where's niteboy?

Originally posted by curiousoutherngal
Oh no, Akdivine

We don't have tanks all over town!

Goodness no. Not tanks. Omg, If there were tanks, I promise you that Wyrde one would not have been starting this thread, as I would have had a thread ranting on this long ago. They are in Humvees. Though I do see them in my neighborhood.

My neighborhood is almost 100% occupied I would think (part of the sliver on the river), and I would say that I see a good amount of Humvees daily. They do work hand in hand with the NOPD, as I have seen. Since I get introduced to many of the higher ups in the NG by NOPD higher ups that I know.

They stick out of uptown pretty much, but down here, they are around a bit.

*edit - I know you're still new around here so you may not notice. I sent you a u2u.

[edit on 1/28/07 by niteboy82]

I think our mayor "groan" called for martial law, however it seems that only the governor or president hold the official capacity to make that call.

niteboy is right, we were under a state of emergency and had a dawn to dusk curfew. Early after the storm, the "boots" did stop us at every corner and ask for I.D. and where we were headed. (I have to add that they were extremely polite and helpful.) Only allowed in our own local neighborhoods and you had to have a special permit to enter the New Orleans area. I kept asking my husband, "Are you quite sure we have to go to your office?" LOL It was frightening, to say the least, and looking back, it was dangerous.

nite? Were you here about a week after the storm when the helicopters were continously crisscrossing one another at night, flying very low to the ground and had huge spotllights beaming down on the neighborhoods? They were so close I could see the pilots. I swear, it felt like being in a warzone!

No tanks, but there a few armored vehicles (not hummers) showing up in the worst parts. There were a few more when Blackwater was running around, and now there are a couple of them being operated by the police department.

See the first article on this thread for more info.