M1A1 Performance

People get real, will you!

MY question about "What have the Germans ever done for tank design/armoured warefare?", is exactly like asking "What have the Romans ever done for us?" - as posed by John Cleese in Monty Python's "Life of Brian" (c).

Get a grip people - I may ask questions!

Kozzy, dear boy. For the last time - the Merkava is, by Israeli standards, an exceptional tank. It was designed by IMI to replace the Centurions and M60 family of tanks in service with the then IDF Armoured Corps. (We Brits had by then, moved on to Cheiftain Mk5s and US were not about to see Abram M1s - for any price, let alone give them away to Israel!)

Remember also that Israel is a very small country which, in one way or another, has been in a state of continual war with it's Arab neighbours since 1948 the year it came into being.

There are no wars in which the Merkava has fought 'tank on tank' in Lebanon or Gaza or the East Bank.

Refugees and terrorists are not armed with T72, T74, T76, T80, T80U T80M or T90s. If they are - bloody hell!

I've just taken a mobile call and have lost the plot - AGAIN!

And another thing Pyros. Your Abrams is very sensative - especially the wacking great big cut out at the rear of the track guards where the drive wheel is! Unless of course you claim that the Abrams is front wheel drive?!

As for the poster who claimed to be able to blow up a battleship with TNT - really? Just by sticking it on the outside of the hull or were you perhaps insinuating that you could sneak aboard, make your way to the ammunition store - still called a magazine on ships, or perhaps afix it to the engines - thus causing secondry explosions.

But to 'blow up' a ship with TNT - I don't think so. I've blown up a bridge on Thetford training area and it took a shed load of PE4 to do it - even using Sabre cutting charges. Blow up a battleship with TNT - don't be so bloody daft man!

Originally posted by fritz
People get real, will you!

We are real, you're seem to be living in a fantasy world.

MY question about "What have the Germans ever done for tank design/armoured warefare?", is exactly like asking "What have the Romans ever done for us?" - as posed by John Cleese in Monty Python's "Life of Brian" (c).

Get a grip people - I may ask questions!

Ones that don't make any sense. What are you talking about?

Kozzy, dear boy. For the last time - the Merkava is, by Israeli standards, an exceptional tank

No, by any standards it is an exceptional tank.

It was designed by IMI to replace the Centurions and M60 family of tanks in service with the then IDF Armoured Corps. (We Brits had by then, moved on to Cheiftain Mk5s and US were not about to see Abram M1s - for any price, let alone give them away to Israel!)

Yes, it was designed because the tank's Israel had didn't provide much, if any overmatch to their enemies' tanks.

Remember also that Israel is a very small country which, in one way or another, has been in a state of continual war with it's Arab neighbours since 1948 the year it came into being. There are no wars in which the Merkava has fought 'tank on tank' in Lebanon or Gaza or the west Bank.
Refugees and terrorists are not armed with T72, T74, T76, T80, T80U T80M or T90s. If they are - bloody hell!

Are you friggin serious?
en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...

The word TANK is mentioned a lot in that article, often with the number 1000 in front of it. Don't be ridiculous again and tell me that Israel has not fought a modern tank battle.

Wait a minute kozy, are you calling the syrian army terrorists?

Originally posted by devilwasp
Wait a minute kozy, are you calling the syrian army terrorists?

No, I'm showing fritz that Israel hasn't only fought "terrorists and refugees" and has in fact engaged in pitched tank battles with it's neighbors.

'CONTACT! - WAIT OUT!'

'SHOT - OVER!'

It would be tragic, if it were not so funny! Here we have a guy who's intent on giving me a spanking in these hallowed pages and he has not bothered to even do his research properly!

To put the record straight, I am 53 years old this year and have been there and done that. In one way or another, I have been serving my country since 1967 (Six Day War) and only retired 3 years ago.

During this time, I have been shot at and wounded (twice), I have been bombed, mortared and in 1972, I was rocketed.

Amongst other things, I have been a Small Arms Instructor, a Defence Nuclear Biological and Chemical Warfare (DNBC) Instructor, All Arms Recognition Instructor, Bayonet/Knife Fighting Instructor, Asst Combat/Survival Instructor as well as a Royal Armoured Corps (RAC) Driver/Mechanic Class 1 and an RAC Signaller Class 3.

I have also done other stuff but that is [as they say] classified!

Kozzy, I have studdied your links and, had you bothered to read all of them and ALL the little blue links, you would not have provided me with more ammunition to shot you down with!

'SHOT! - OUT'

Your last link on Wikipedia [a crappy link at that] was of great interest to me. It states that the Merkava entered service in 1979. The viewer/reader is then directed to the assault on Israeli positions along the Golan Heights and around a place called 'The Crossroads' - during Operation 'Peace for Galilee' - 1982.

Had you bothered to read the little blue link, as I did Kozzy, you would have discovered that the majority of the Syrian armour was destroyed by the AH-1s of the Chel Ha'Avir, firing Tow and HOT missiles.

'ON!'

So you see Kozzy, as I have repeatedly said, Merkava has not been engaged by modern MBTs on any front in the Middle East. Of course I know all about the other wars, I was on standby in Cyprus on 1 hours Notice To Move, ready to drop in if things went pear shaped during Yom Kippur.

'NEUTRALIZE FOR FIGURES 10 - OUT!'

'Zero Bravo, this is Four One Delta. Am observing terget area. out.'

And yes, while the majority of armor was destroyed by AH-1s. The Merkava did engage in a battle with T-72s. And even if that weren't true, it does not mean that the Merkava is worse then any other tank.

[edit on 28-2-2005 by Kozzy]

DANG! - MISSED THE BUGGAR!

Kozzy a question or ten.

In which country do you live?

Have you seen military service?

Have you done an operational tour and, if so, where was it?

Many, many years ago, my aunty Joan was liberated from Bergen-Belsen by 1 SAS. Although not a Jew, she was in fact a catholic nun working for French restistence, she visited the newly formed UN country called Israel.

Israel was established on pan arab land on which, to be fair, not a lot was happening.

When we Brits pulled out of Palestine in 1948, almost all arab countries attacked the fledgling Israel from day one. (It may interest readers to know that Eizer Weitzmann a Battle of Britain Spitfire pilot, shot down 4 or 5 Spitfires in a Czech Bf-109 G, during one of the first air battles of this War of Independance!)

Luckily for Israel, two armoured corps sergeants deserted from the British army and took their tanks with them. They were the first ever tanks in the Israel Defence Force!

So you see Kozzy Bear, I DO know my stuff and have been so pro-Israeli as to be officially accused of being anti arab. [I have since revised my beliefs due in no small part to the continued oppression of the Palestinian people, by a third world super power]

As to the continuing debate about Merkava v the rest of the world or, as I prefer to look at things, Chally v the rest of the worst, you have still NOT told us when a Merkava has fired a shot in anger at a T76, T80, T80-U, T80M, T90 on a modern tank v tank warfield.

No arab nation, despite having weight of numbers, have tried to kick Israeli bum in the last 25 years, because they know that with Israel having complete air superiority and air supremecy and the professionalism of the armoured corps, they would be the ones to get handed their heads on a plate.

So Kozzy, my question remains. In what modern war has the Merkava been engaged by enemy forces. For once Kozzy, do not attempt to fob me off with a little remembered engagement that took place in 1982. This is 2005, for God's sake!

The same goes for Leclerc, Leopard and all the others who have never fired a shot in anger in Gulf War 1 or 2, Bosnia or Kosovo etc.

please be kind enough to let us know.

So the invasion of Lebanon in 1982 is a null and void and war? Anything that happened there isn't "modern" enough for you? There were some Merkavas lost in that war, one taking like 5 Saggers before burning out.