My homeschooled daughter lacks socialization...or so they rant...

You are absoloutley right. Your daughter does not need to "learn" these things. If I had kids I would consider home schooling them also.

The only concern I might have, is that if you are from a non english speaking country, that your daughter might need some tutoring in American English. If you have friend that home school consider getting together with them once or twice a week and taking turns working on different subjects.

Originally posted by Machine
Their favorite collective argument can be summed up in one sentence, �she will not be properly socialized at home, she needs to be in a public school.�

Drugs, sexual promiscuity, foul language, vile rap and rock music, undisciplined children, impotent teachers, chaotic learning environments, bullies, God free zones, and extreme violence.


[Edited on 2-12-2003 by Machine]

I forgot to add that your school is pissed off because your robbing them of $20,000 a year in government subsidies. Money used to pay for teaching your kids all this liberal, socialist crap.

For me, a better alternative was one we couldn't afford -- to send the kids to a private school. I would have liked to send them to a Montessori school, where their talents could have been developed further.

On the other hand, the son went to magnet schools and did well. There was a lot that I wished I could have protected them from, but I don't mind them being exposed to liberalism. After all, I'm a liberal.

Although I say I would have liked to send them to a private school, I also recognize that in a small environment like that, the weird ones can REALLY get picked on. Religious schools were out; there were no schools for Wiccans and if they'd gotten caught with a Wiccan parent in a religious school, they'd have had more misery than they got in public school.

Different strokes...

But, as I said, many of the kids wish they could escape the homeschool environment. I feel sorry for them; I think they'd do better in private schools. And I think that public schools could benefit as well from a large system of qualified private schools -- it's MUCH easier to control a classroom of 15 than it is to control a group of 35.

Originally posted by helen670
hi there mac......
quote/You know, come to think of it, they are right, my daughter does indeed lack all of these social influences. I�ll go enroll her today!
LOL......

You know what? Your doing the right thing!
Im sure she will appreciate the fact that she will see things alot different when she is older......as for now(not sure how old she is now)being at home will do her alot of good......as long as a parent you are bringing her up with good morals and nice friends

Any way, all the best........
helen...

she will face all these things at a later age... a bad thing, since she is destined to be unprepared.

however

i suddenly think of these new-age parents, telling their 8 yr-old kids' all the # we never knew till 13-14...
i saw a 12 yr old girl, 5'6, a 36-d in a thong.
made me realize what we, the older generation have done.

since you have a daughter, i would advise not letting her out of your sights, but preparing her lara-croft style, hell,the least u could do is teach her self-defence.
i'm truly disgusted with the generations' to come,
Cyrus

Gazrok,

Without turning this into a science vs. religion thing go check out:

www.reasons.org

Again, I love science, I�m not one of those hide in the corner Christians and wish it away types. I believe with both my heart and my mind. But on to the rest.

I believe that life is a gift but that gift is to be used in a manner that glorifies God. I find it amusing when others accuse Christians of indoctrinating their offspring in fear. Do you really think she would grow up well adjusted and happy if I spent all my time terrorizing her with gods wrath and hell stories? Too funny. She is only two years old! We laugh and sing and play in the grass, she knows about gods love and Jesus, the rest will come with age and maturity.

Is this what you think Christian parents do to their children?

�Praise Lord Jesus, you sinning maggot!� Praise him you two year old concubine of Satan!� �Repent or burn in fire the sins of your foul youth!� Big 6�3� daddy holding a bible over his daughters head screaming the �good� book at her.

LOL

That would not be Christian teaching that would be whacko land!

As far as morality goes I have friends who are Atheists and they are decent enough folk. Do what you wish, we live in America and it�s all about the freedom baby!

Good luck to you and yours as well.



web suspect

Yeah those government schools hate it when parents take the reigns of control and deprive them of their next undeserved raise.



Cyrus,

Damn skippy man! I was thinking more along the lines of Zena Warrior Princess! But Lara-Croft has game I�ll mix her in as well. No way I�m letting some man slob push her around like she was a �typical� girl. Rest assured, she will be well prepared to deal with those who would tread upon her.


Machine

Where did we ever get the idea that 2,000 13-year-olds were the ideal people with which to socialize other 13-year-olds?

Man,

What is this you say about public schoolers not being able to use manners? As much as you may think, public school does have standards. I'm 14, and no harm ever came out of me going to public school. I think that by sheltering her for so long, you may be doing her an injustice, because she will be exposed to all those things you talk about in your first post eventually.

Oh yes, we (most of those at my school) all use the word sir and maam (or madam) very regularly.

Drugs, sexual promiscuity, foul language, vile rap and rock music, undisciplined children, impotent teachers, chaotic learning environments, bullies, God free zones, and extreme violence.

These things just make me laugh. I happen to be inrolled in a public school. There is no such thing as a chaotic learning environment, where the hell did you hear that?

Undisciplined children- could this be your child, if not then you have nothing to worry about, there in different class rooms.

Never met a bully in my life. OMG rock music, should be illegal

Drugs- sure drugs exist in schools, in every school, private schools more than public... As long as your daughter hangs out with the right crowd she will never come across any drugs ever unless she wants them, in which case, you as a parent screwed up. Understand that YOU have to go looking for the drugs, they dont find you numbnuts.

Same thing with the sex as long as you teach your daughter that it is for later than shes ok.

The teachers are good, they are legally certified to teach, otherwise they wouldnt be there. I dont know where you come from, but here, your not allowed to play music in schools, so "vile rap" is non existent, duh!

God free zones, lol. Seperation of church and state does not allow schools to teach religion. But there are First Priority clubs which allow you to study the bible in school. And what is with extreme violence? Where did that come from? I have NEVER seen a fight at school in my life, and I have been going to public schools all my life. Foul language- where I come from, you get sent to the dean if you say a bad word.

Next time you make a life changing decision for another person, make sure you get the facts from somewhere besides the news, where they only report the bad stuff. I'd like to hear what you have to say about this and where you heard all this crap about public schools.

u know i would like to point out not to long ago home schooling was against the law and i was a child that was brought forward as an example even though my mother paid a private home school named clonlara in Michigan for the right to keep me at home,, well it was still illegal and they threatened to contact my abusive father over it if she did not comply with their wishes and place me back in public school, why?

The reason why is simple, because they were not getting the enough head count and it was hurting their budget,,i was taken to court over this and only for one reason,, they needed some one to make an example out of,,, i was a A+ student in home school and a D- in public,, why? simply i was miserable and the teachers cannot focus on 30-45 students enough to teach effectively,,students that excel are the same students that dont rely on the teachers but do their own work and have help from tutors or parental figures,, public school is worthless unless u get lucky and get in one of the few that are exceptional or u are enrolled in a private school (not to be confused with a home school program)

and the next time u try to say public is no different then private try watching the news and how kids are getting mollested are attacked in the school sporting groups by the other students and its ignored because the cops say its not their problem its a civil issue that the schools are soley responsible for handeling and the schools wont act on it because it hurts their image,,check the news u idiots its a current issue

MrJingles,

Let�s start from the top shall we. First, I�m 34 years old and have a far greater amount of life experience then you have at this time in your juvenile years. I spent time in public schools as well as the U.S. Army 101st Airborne and a ten year law enforcement career with the Riverside County Sheriffs Department in California. I�ve been married for over ten years and have a two year old daughter.

So now that my credentials are out of the way I�ll continue.

You made some bold and incorrect statements in your post so I�m going to go one point at a time with you.





These things just make me laugh. I happen to be inrolled in a public school. There is no such thing as a chaotic learning environment, where the hell did you hear that?

I didn�t hear this anywhere, I experienced it first hand as both a public school student and a law enforcement officer who spent time working as an in school officer for the city of La Quinta. I�m very familiar with the federal standards for education and school enforcement as well as having handled well over five hundred cases on school property. I�ve taken reports for everything from fighting to rape and I�m an authority on the matter of public school security.





Never met a bully in my life. OMG rock music, should be illegal.

Nice try kid, there is nothing in any of my posts that state that I wish to make rock music illegal. If your parents don�t mind you listening to rock music then by all means have at it.





Drugs- sure drugs exist in schools, in every school, private schools more than public...

Wrong, most private schools have superior enforcement procedures which allow them to take extra steps to insure a safer learning environment. Good private schools have entrance exams and a screening process to insure that only the best qualified and hardest working students get in. This also helps to screen out trouble makers and punk kids who could care less about learning and only go to public school because they are forced.

I�m not saying that all private schools are perfect but on the average they are a step above our public schools. I also believe in having our students wear school uniforms for a variety of reasons that I will not mention now. This, of course, is a mute point as my daughter will not be attending any public or private schools.








As long as your daughter hangs out with the right crowd she will never come across any drugs ever unless she wants them, in which case, you as a parent screwed up. Understand that YOU have to go looking for the drugs, they dont find you numbnuts.

Wrong again young man, our public schools are filled with bad kids who help to set up an environment that makes learning for the rest less than optimal. It only takes a few rotten apples to spoil the bunch and our public schools are filled with bad apples many of which are rotten to the core.

You can seek out drugs and they can indeed find you. Are you trying to tell me that no one has ever asked you if you wanted to take drugs? Don�t be silly, we all know that drugs and those that use them are more than willing to �share� with their new friends and associates. If your children go to public school they will be propositioned to use drugs at some point that goes without saying.






Same thing with the sex as long as you teach your daughter that it is for later than shes ok.

If that was the case we wouldn�t see our public schools building in house child care facilities at a record number. When I went to public school the concept of a high school having a child care facility for the students was almost unheard of. Now, they are in many high schools as well as junior high schools!






The teachers are good, they are legally certified to teach, otherwise they wouldnt be there. I dont know where you come from, but here, your not allowed to play music in schools, so "vile rap" is non existent, duh!

If the teachers are as good as you say they are why is it that you have such poor grammar? I would also point out that you have used foul and rude language against me in your statements which helps to shed some light on the nature of your personal character. Your lack of grammatical skill and seemingly inability to communicate in a clear and articulate manner are all the evidence I need to know that I have made the right choice by choosing to home school my daughter..






God free zones, lol. Seperation of church and state does not allow schools to teach religion. But there are First Priority clubs which allow you to study the bible in school.

Not all public schools allow for biblical teaching and those that do often have extremely stringent criteria that make bible classes all but non existent in public schools. As for your quote about the separation of church and state I have a challenge for you. Please show me where, in any of our founding documents, the words, �separation of church and state� are written? If you can do this I�ll give you a cookie.






And what is with extreme violence? Where did that come from? I have NEVER seen a fight at school in my life, and I have been going to public schools all my life. Foul language- where I come from, you get sent to the dean if you say a bad word.

Which public school do you attend? Handling in school violence was a weekly occurrence for me as a Sheriffs Deputy working the local high school. I�m glad that you have been free of violence it sounds like your particular public school is a notch above most. Be thankful for what you seem to have, students in most public schools deal with violence on a continual basis. I�ve stood, in classes, in uniform while students heckled the teacher and acted up in ways that are beyond what most parents would even believe.





Next time you make a life changing decision for another person, make sure you get the facts from somewhere besides the news, where they only report the bad stuff.

You�ve heard some of the facts but I doubt you�ll change your mind. Parents make "life changing" decisions for their offspring every day, it's part of the job kid.





I'd like to hear what you have to say about this and where you heard all this crap about public schools.

You just did, have a good Christmas and God be with you.





Machine

i went through the public school system and i have the worst social skills ever and they are worse because of things i've experienced in the public not at my home.

Originally posted by Machine
Greetings,

The silly season is upon us all, a time for joy, giving and love. A time to be shared with family and friends. For me however, it�s a time for combat of the interpersonal nature. My wife�s family just loves our public school system here in America and cannot understand why I chose to home school my daughter. Their favorite collective argument can be summed up in one sentence, �she will not be properly socialized at home, she needs to be in a public school.�

Drugs, sexual promiscuity, foul language, vile rap and rock music, undisciplined children, impotent teachers, chaotic learning environments, bullies, God free zones, and extreme violence.

You know, come to think of it, they are right, my daughter does indeed lack all of these social influences. I�ll go enroll her today!


Machine

[Edited on 2-12-2003 by Machine]

and where do you base your view on such things? its religion free for a reason, not everyone is one religion.

vile music? umm not like school is some anarchist playground, your attitude is counter productive to society, its an open culture not a dictatorship and if someone wants something, you and anyone cant stop it, you should know that if you try it WILL backfire, i was homeschooled i know it causes social issues and isolation will harm anyone mentally.

you need control? like has choices, denying them hoping your child will be what you want is the wrong think to do.

i heard the excuse "oh my parents did that, i turned out fine" well i say if their way was so good, how come everything on the planet is so screwed up.

most problems still exist because the generations in power, not the younger generations who think opposite of your old ideas.

just my input..

Ok, your 34 years old, things change, I dont know what it was like when you went to school, but there are no bullies in my schools. By the way, I typed my earlier post in a hurry, thus I didn't have time to check it. Believe me, my school is not a notch above the rest, I live in one of the poorest school districts in Florida.

I proudly say that I have never been offered drugs in my life, not even alchohol, I have never done any of those things either. I prefer not to hang out with those losers.

Please tell me where you got the information on day care centers in schools, this is unheard of by me.

Rotten apples, good metaphor. Remove the apples, problem solved. Besides, the classes I am in, there are no bad kids all of them want to learn, not spoil it for the others. Right now I am learning thermodynamics and thermochemistry in an AP course, and those kids are there to learn, not ruin it for others.

My friends agree that about 90% of my school uses drugs. I have asked several other students who all attended private schools and they agree that private schools have a bigger drug problem than public schools. You see a private school doesn't care whether or not you can pass a test, they care whether or not the parents can pay. You dont believe me? Ask my neighbor who failed and still got in. The richer class tends to go to private schools, where money is easier accessed by drug dealers.

You must realize that public schooling is not the same everywhere. La Quinta must have been bad for you, because it is nothing like that here, there is hardly any school violence here, and some of the poorest neighborhoods go to my school. Violence is everywhere, whether it be with fists or words, you cannot escape it.

All I am trying to say is that you make public schools sound horrible, when their not because you get your info from news and from whenever you were a cop. Things change, the school systems have changed alot since you were a kid. I dont appreciate your making fun of my grammar either, you dont make fun of my grammar, and I wont make fun of your ignorance.

MrJingles,

I�ll make one final response to your last post.





Ok, your 34 years old, things change, I dont know what it was like when you went to school, but there are no bullies in my schools.

This statement cannot possibly be true. You claim that your school doesn�t have any bullies, none at all? Surely you�re lying on this point as I find it impossible to believe that a school like the one you describe is devoid of even a single bully.

My experience with public school is not as old as you may think, I retired from law enforcement in December 2001. You are correct in pointing out that things change, however, as far as public schools go those changes have generally been for the worse.






By the way, I typed my earlier post in a hurry, thus I didn't have time to check it. Believe me, my school is not a notch above the rest, I live in one of the poorest school districts in Florida.

If your school is as violence free as you claim then it is indeed a notch above the rest. The school that I was contracted for was located in an upper middle class neighborhood and had serious problems on many different levels.






I proudly say that I have never been offered drugs in my life, not even alchohol, I have never done any of those things either. I prefer not to hang out with those losers.

Good work on keeping clean, it will serve you well in the years to come. As for never having been offered drugs I find that hard to believe but I�ll take your word for it. You mention later in your post that your friends believe that 90% of your classmates are using drugs. Is this supposed to change my negative view on public schools? The fact that you have chosen to remain drug free in this hostile environment is more a testament to your solid values than to the schools goodness.






Please tell me where you got the information on day care centers in schools, this is unheard of by me.

The Desert Unified School District in California has several day care centers attached to the public schools that they serve. These day care facilities are run by teachers and students and paid for by the taxpayer.







Besides, the classes I am in, there are no bad kids all of them want to learn, not spoil it for the others. Right now I am learning thermodynamics and thermochemistry in an AP course, and those kids are there to learn, not ruin it for others.

I�m glad you are trying to learn but this doesn�t change my opinion that better learning environments can be provided as alternatives to public schools.







My friends agree that about 90% of my school uses drugs. I have asked several other students who all attended private schools and they agree that private schools have a bigger drug problem than public schools.

You argue that public schools are good then state that your public school has an environment where 90% of the students use drugs. Is this supposed to make a parent choose public school as the best choice for their child�s education? The few private schools I�ve seen were superior to the public schools I�ve been apart of. This again is not the issue, my argument is not in support of private schools I support home schooling as the best option for any willing parent.







You see a private school doesn't care whether or not you can pass a test, they care whether or not the parents can pay. You dont believe me? Ask my neighbor who failed and still got in.

Good private schools will not grant you admittance unless you meet their high standards for acceptance. But again you are talking off the subject, my support is for home schooling not private schools.






The richer class tends to go to private schools, where money is easier accessed by drug dealers.

Drug use exists in both private and public schools I�m not arguing this. I do believe that your better off placing your child in a good private school over any public school. But the best option is to teach your children directly if you have the time and desire. I for one would never send my daughter to a school where 90% of the students were using drugs, that�s insanity!









You must realize that public schooling is not the same everywhere. La Quinta must have been bad for you, because it is nothing like that here, there is hardly any school violence here, and some of the poorest neighborhoods go to my school.

There is no doubt in my mind that public schools are not all the same, it�s impossible that they could be. This doesn�t change the fact that as a whole the public school system is not the best way to give your kids a solid education.






Violence is everywhere, whether it be with fists or words, you cannot escape it.

You can reduce your childs risk. As a parent it�s my responsibility to care for and protect my daughter, sending her to a public school where 90% of the kids are using drugs would be a violation of that responsibility in my opinion.







All I am trying to say is that you make public schools sound horrible, when their not because you get your info from news and from whenever you were a cop. Things change, the school systems have changed alot since you were a kid.

As long as the public school system in America remains as it is I see no reason to change my views. As I mentioned above I agree with you that our public schools have changed but it�s a change for the worse and I see no hope for it to get better anytime soon.







I dont appreciate your making fun of my grammar either, you dont make fun of my grammar, and I wont make fun of your ignorance.

I didn�t make fun of your poor grammar I simply pointed out a fact. You, on the other hand, insulted me several times in your first post with direct vulgarity and you did this before I said anything to you about your poor writing skills.

I�m glad that you seem to be performing well under adverse conditions in your public school. I would only add that you are an exception to the rule as your own statements have pointed out, let�s not forget that 90% of your fellow public school students are using drugs and doubtfully doing well in their studies.






Machine

I didn�t make fun of your poor grammar I simply pointed out a fact. You, on the other hand, insulted me several times in your first post with direct vulgarity and you did this before I said anything to you about your poor writing skills.

Sorry about that fellow ATS member...Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and I will no longer try to convince anyone that public schools are not that bad.

I love school age kids,

they got all this wisdom and many years of living under their belts.

just makes you wanna step down and hand the world over to em' to take over and control.

too bad you can't run it cause it ain't a video console.

too bad you can't run it cause it ain't a video console.

I wouldn't want to run the world, the way it is right now.

School IS a bad thing, people. It's pure indoctrination. think about it. when was the last time your teachers in school ever told u to question things? I know that none of my teachers ever told me that. they're all a bunch of idiots who want me to conform to their system specifications. the schools just want you to be a product of their ridiculous system. The CABAL invented this crappy school system called public school so all the kids would be brainwashed with statist propaganda and never think for themselves. this would allow them to conspire against us and we would never even think of it. why is that no one gets to question things in school? even in absurd classes like algebra and geometry, kids are forced to learn this and not even get a chance to ask the teacher "when am I gonna use this #? no one ever uses this." b/c no one ever does use it! oh sure, some people say that people like engineers would use it but u got any proof? and what's the chances of me or you being an engineer? 1 in 12 million?

I say we need to get all kids home schooled. let them question science, reading, language, history, etc. Why force them to just believe that every single thing these idiots at DARE and teachers say is true? They aren't even qualified. the college system is corrupt. any idiot who passes exams according to their agenda and their answers in college can automatically become a teacher. but have they actually investigated to prove that what they teach is true? and why don't any of these teachers question the stuff? they have this stupid stigma that "just b/c it's in the textbooks, it's true" when they could just lying out their asses or not even know what they're talking about. the SATs and ACTs go even further. they force a person to remember and take in this agenda and get a good score like the "good product of the system" just so they can get into a good college. It's preposterous!

We need to challenge the gov't and stop them from brainwashing our youth with statist nonsense. school isn't even about learning. It's about taking in crap and spitting it back out. true learning is being able to take in someone else's theories and remember them and be able to question and come to your own conclusions with evidence. that's how you educate yourself. Not by having # shoved down ur throat everyday wasting away your life and being miserable for 20 years. I'm tired of public school. but what can I do? I'm one person but if we all band together maybe we can do something. Do you not even know that he gov't controls public schools? that is so dumbassy!! why are we so dumb as to let the gov't control education?? It's not even right. the gov't should have no place in education. they're here to serve us, not the other way around. think about it!!!!!

Originally posted by Machine
Greetings,

The silly season is upon us all, a time for joy, giving and love. A time to be shared with family and friends. For me however, it�s a time for combat of the interpersonal nature. My wife�s family just loves our public school system here in America and cannot understand why I chose to home school my daughter. Their favorite collective argument can be summed up in one sentence, �she will not be properly socialized at home, she needs to be in a public school.�

Drugs, sexual promiscuity, foul language, vile rap and rock music, undisciplined children, impotent teachers, chaotic learning environments, bullies, God free zones, and extreme violence.

You know, come to think of it, they are right, my daughter does indeed lack all of these social influences. I�ll go enroll her today!


Machine

[Edited on 2-12-2003 by Machine]

The flaw with your method is just that, you're sheltering your daughter.

Let me ask you this: What do you expect from your daughter? I know you expect her to be a good, smart, wise person with something positive to give.

Reality check: She will have a very difficult time becomnig any of the above if you shelter her. For one thing, a lot of the negatives you mentioned are things that require experience to be successfully countered. Bullies, for example. There will always be bullies. If you aren't careful, you as a parent will be a bully. If you don't experience firsthand a bully, how will you learn how to fight? You can always tell her the whole "Ignore them tell the teacher" crap, but it's never that simple. Your daughter needs to learn how to stare them straight in the eye and either laugh at everything they say or give them the finger, instead of running away. Running away solves nothing.

Vile rap and rock music? How much more uptight can you get? How is rap and rock "bad?" And what makes you think you can control what their preference for entertainment and art is?

God-free zones? Are you telling me you're forcing your daughter to believe in God? I'm not even going to respond to this, because the injustice involved is absolutely horrifying.

I am not saying home influences aren't necessary. In fact, to handle these situations, you have to prepare at home. But you can never prevent a person from the experience. It's like a tiger. If you raise it in your own home and release it to the wild two years later, it'll never survive. Again, I am not saying your daughter needs to get beaten up by a bully. Preparedness at home is what'll get you through it. But you can't learn anything without going through it the hard way. You'll never know how hot the fire really is until you burn yourself.