ATS/BTS Board Etiquette/NETiquette

Ok folks, fellow members, and soon-to-be members......
Seems that many have voiced growing concern for how we treat on another, how we respond to one another, and how we interact with one another.

I did a 'search' on this using 'google' and ran across these:

"A Website for Beginning Online Learners: Discussion Board Etiquette"
Link:
www.emoderators.com...

Excerpt:
* "Be careful posting anything that is personal to you or others. Be considerate and kind to classmates.

* If your posting is for a specific person or group, make sure you address it to them. Realize, however, that others will probably read it.

* Make sure everyone realizes when you are trying to be funny. It is easy for messages to be misinterpreted since there are no physical gestures or voice inflections that accompany the text.

* When responding to someone's comments, explain to whom and what you are commenting on. Do not include their whole posting. Try to use only the appropriate quotes or a summary.

* Remember to read what has previously been posted by others to avoid repeating comments.

* Make sure you are posting under the appropriate heading or thread.

* Cite your references.

* Be brief when posting. Since reading other's comments or articles can be very time consuming, try to be straight to the point."


"THE CORE RULES OF NETIQUETTE"
Link:
www.albion.com...

"Chat Etiquette / Chat Protocol"
Link:
dragon.minopher.net.au...


Folks.....we ARE a community and in such, we must learn how to treat, respond, and interact with one another properly. Respect and tolerance for anothers views, beliefs, and opinions are a must.
Personally and IMHO, there is NO exceptions to the rule.

I encourage all here to post there thoughts on this and any suggestions that they might have on ATS etiquette.
I posted this in a forum that gives little to no points, because I did this not for the points....
ANyone who knows me and has read some of my comments on points, understands how I feel about them, In such, again.....I did not create this topic for points......I did it for the betterment of the ATS community and the interaction of its members.

I also posted this in hopefully, from what I can tell, a universal forum. Meaning, I believe that it can be responded to by both ATS and BTS.

Again, I encourage all of us to put forth or thoughts, suggestions, ideas on this. Some to many members have voiced a concern over 'drama', malicious, flaming, belittlements, etc. This is everyone's chance to address this issue....be heard....and lets hope that the seeds of this ATS/BTS Board Etiquette/NETiquette discussion have grwoing and lasting roots/implications.

Peace.

regards
seekerof

Hmm, ok.....
I'll go first......

Respect is a must....any poster, including myself, needs to respect anothers thoughts, opinion, ideas, and beliefs....even if we agree, we must learn to "agree to disagree."

If one disagrees, be respectful of how you disagree.
Flamin, belittlements, calling someone idiotic or a moron or unintelligent does not produce a qaulity response and only insights more of the same.

Talk or respond to others as you would have them talk and respond to you.

If you are flamed, belittled, etc, consider ignoring the comment and still post a response tha is respectful of the other. Do not carry on a flaming session being that it will only lead to further flaming and will ultimately disrupt the thread/topic.


Note: I speak from experience for I have broken each and everyone of these myself.....there was no excuse for it then and there is no excuse why any of us do it currently.
We must grow beyond these petty confrontations.....

Peace.

regards
seekerof

It all comes back to what we learned in kindergarten, The Golden Rule:

Treat others as you would like to be treated.

Simple as that, not at all difficult. Although it seems that way.

I agree Advisor.....
I think it all stems back to the fact that most have a tendency to think that because they are not actually "face-to-face" and are separated by computer screens, that many feel that they can 'speak' as if "etiquette" is meaningless.

Many took Williams surveys and in each of the surveys were asked to give their opinions on what would make ATS/BTS a better COMMUNITY.....
In such, many voiced concern over drama issues, flamming, malicious postings, etc.........

Here's a chance for those to speak up and clarify themsleves more; to suggest better board etiquette....I suppose I should have placed a sign on this saying that they would get 500 points for responding.......would probably have two pages by now....

I have been noticing this trend for quite sometime....
Many voice their opinions on it and yet, when a topic is posted to help give others clarification on board etiquette......I'm almost having to put neon lights on this to get responses........strange indeed.
One would almost concluded that perhaps everyone is comfortable with belittlements, drama, flaming, etc......


Thanks for responding Advisor.
You, as well as others, have sought a better ATS and ATS community.....its time that the "community" became involved with their own interactions instead of relying on others to correct them. Responsibility ultimately rests with each and every one of us.....in such, it takes all of us to make a better ATS community.

regards
seekerof

I'm also adding this to the thread/topic because they are connected to board etiquette:

"::: ALL MEMEBERS READ :::"
Link:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

And Simon's Updated Terms and Conditions:
"Terms And Conditions Of Use
Terms and Conditions of use of the AboveTopSecret.com Message Board"
Link:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

"Actions for general abuse and Terms and Conditions violations."
Link:
www.abovetopsecret.com...


Feel free to comment, suggest, add to the links, etc.
This is a "community" and we should function under set guidlines and rules in how we should interact, treat, and respond to each other.....right?


regards
seekerof

As usual, an excellent post, Seekerof.
I agree wholeheartedly with you. Granted there will be times when some discussions get heated, but there is still no need for people to resort to insults, flaming and childish behaviour. You can have a heated debate and still remain respectful to others.
I've only been with ATS a short time and thoroughly enjoy being part of this community, but all too often I'm seeing posts ending up as nothing more than a rabble. It's annoying because it disrupts the threads and wastes time trying to find the next worthwhile part of the thread to read.

Just my 2 cents worth

regards
funlovincriminal

[Edited on 25/11/03 by funlovincriminal]

Seekerof,

Thanks for this thread. You have provided wonderful suggestions.

I noticed something that came up recently concerning new posters creating threads on previously discussed topics. I would like to add to your comments by addressing this issue:

1. New users should take a few minutes to search keywords prior to starting new threads. This is not to be taken as "hours" or "days", just give it a good go before jumping into a new thread.
2. For any member that reads a new thread, and realizes that there is an old thread, the proper response is to add the link to that thread to the new thread so that the originating poster can have a well-rounded discussions.
3. The improper response to 2 is to say something to the effect of "these idiotic reposts of issues already discussed...etc.". This is flaming, and adds nothing to the board. As a good steward of knowledge of this board, simply post the link to the previous thread and invite the new poster to also review historical comments on the topic.
4. To the new poster, if the lack of common decency described in the first part of 3 occurs, hit the complain button. BUT, if it is pointed out that there is a previous thread discussing same, in a polite manner, do not expect posters who have previously posted on the topic to weigh in and RETYPE their opinions on the subject...after about the second time, it gets boring to repeat yourself.

I believe that covers it all.

And, again, Seekerof, thanks for these suggestions.

Originally posted by ADVISOR
The Golden Rule:
Treat others as you would like to be treated.

I always thought The Golden Rule was
He who has the gold makes the rules.

I just want to point out that the search feature doesn't always find what you're looking for, it doesn't always find my own posts when I do a search for them. Also, don't people get mad when you resurrect a "dead" thread, even if you weren't around when it was made? Just curious because that's the way it is with most boards.

Originally posted by JFetch
I just want to point out that the search feature doesn't always find what you're looking for, it doesn't always find my own posts when I do a search for them. Also, don't people get mad when you resurrect a "dead" thread, even if you weren't around when it was made? Just curious because that's the way it is with most boards.

some times it just drives me nuts; to read the 15 page long topic and then put in your input is crazy, i can understand that if from time to time, people post an old topic (week + ) other then that it can get tire some.

Originally posted by JFetch
I just want to point out that the search feature doesn't always find what you're looking for, it doesn't always find my own posts when I do a search for them. Also, don't people get mad when you resurrect a "dead" thread, even if you weren't around when it was made? Just curious because that's the way it is with most boards.

Absolutely not. People do not get mad at that at all. In fact, it is very good. Because there are new posters who will get to read the old posts when you bring it back to the top...and then lots of new views get added.

I know the search function hurts...trust me. I also know that scanning thread titles doesn't always do too much for you since some people tend to get creative with their titles (or lack creativity) and you can't tell what the thread is about by the title.

But as I stated in my previous post, if you give it a good try, and find nothing. Post away.

Most of the time I feel it's right to be respectful and nice to other members, other times I feel the need to BLOW UP on them for being so dumb, and trust me this is how I conduct myself in the real world. Everyone I know really appreciate how honest I am and always know where they stand with me. I'm not going to watch my P's & Q's just incase I hurt someones feelings, I wouldn't do it in the real world so I'm going to offer you the same respect and not do it here. Fair enough?

Thank you to everyone that posted and gave their suggestions, comments, and responses.

John,
I think we can all agree and appreciate your honest and cander....I do think that we all give fairly 'direct' responses and comments from time-to-time. I think though, that we must refrain from calling someone/a poster by the stereotypical names of "dumb", "idiot", etc. This is for obvious reasons and the main reason is that we are not "face-to-face" and that it pronounces a absolute judgment. This will cause a poster or member to take this stereotypical comment or assertion wrongly and will inevitably, probably 8 times out of 10, lead to a like response or flaming.
It is for this reason, the reason that we are not "face-to-face" that we should refrain from calling other members or posters by such names.
Honesty is great, but stereotyping is loathsome and unnecessary, and calling someone "stupid", "idiotic", etc. is doing just that: stereotyping an individual.
I do agree, that at times, such 'refraining' is very hard and when in the heat of a debate or conversation, that it is easy to make such a stereotypical assertion, but is this an excuse? Is "honesty" an excuse?
If we were "face-to-face", I could "read" your facial expressions, your mannerisms, I could "read" how you are meaning "stupid" or "idiotic", etc. But on the net or on a board, such as this, we are denied that ability to interpret....typed words can not express whether you are joking or kidding, or "how" you are implying those words and meanings.....

Thanks for the responses.

regards
seekerof

Nice overall suggestions Seererof.

Most people seem to forget that the golden rule should be applied everywhere, and that,oh yes, includes the internet.

Hopes new-comers and angry flamers will read some of it...

Hi all!!

How I missed this post the first time around beats me - very many apologies Seekerof

I think all the ideas expressed here as regards Netiquette are worthy of "bumping" again, especially as we have been priviledged to have so many new people join ATS.

I'd like to recommend another website, that covers work that I am fortunate enough to be a part of. It covers the work of Gary Alexander of the Open University here in the UK, from which the following is taken:

"Extract from a Communications Guide, prepared by Gary Alexander for use on various Open University courses. (Revised September 2000)


Note that although the FirstClass conference system is mentioned, the principles apply equally to any on-line discussion group. Comments about conferences apply equally to discussions on mailing lists.

Netiquette, or the social conventions of computer conferencing
You may have experienced face-to-face meetings where people talk across each other, battle over positions, and leave without a clear idea of what has been decided. Similar problems occur on-line, if people are unaware of how to avoid them.

The principles of effective on-line discussions are basically a translation of those developed for face-to-face discussions. To a certain extent they are just common sense. But, because you cannot see body language and hear emotion, more care and attention is needed on-line than in face-to-face discussion.

The Open University's FirstClass computer conference service has been designed to be a support system for students and staff. It is a place where you can deepen your understanding of your courses through discussion, through learning of others' experiences and points of view, and through participation in various special events. It is a place where you can get and give help to other students, and also socialise and enjoy yourself. This is a new communication medium which will function most effectively as people learn how best to use it.

In some courses you will be expected to participate in collaborative groupwork on-line. To do this effectively is a skill which needs to be learned and practiced. (And effective on-line groupwork is becoming an important skill well beyond education.)

Going for consensus
The main principle is the intention to come to a shared understanding or consensus. This means trying to understand other peoples' views, see things from their point of view, and then find some conclusion which satisfies everyone, rather than simply expressing yourself, or worse, trying to impose your views on others.

Genuine consensus is also different from suppressing your own views in favour of a majority view. That way you lose one of the main benefits of a group, which is having multiple perspectives on the same issue. If a group seems near to agreement, those who disagree weakly might give way, but those who disagree strongly should stick to their guns and wait for some result which takes their views into account as well. The end result should not leave some people resentful and dissatisfied.

Practical Communication Principles (PCPs)
I have based the following suggestions on my own experiences, and on a set of documents on the Internet found by searching on the word netiquette. From some research experiences (see Zimmer and Alexander) at the Open University I have extracted some of the key principles into what we may call Practical Communication Principles (PCPs).

These are not meant to encourage groups to be overly polite and agree with everything each other says. Rather, they are meant to allow groups to really engage with issues, to disagree and learn by resolving their disagreements without upsets and hurt feelings.

PCP 1: Thank, acknowledge and support people freely
"I liked your comment in... " "I agree with so and sos idea that... " "Thanks Sarah for that contribution. I got a lot out of it." "Welcome to the conference, Bill."

In a computer conference you cannot see the other people nod their heads, smile, or otherwise indicate that they have heard what you said. If you don't receive an acknowledgement of a message, you may feel ignored, even when others have appreciated your contribution. This principle is particularly important when a group is set up as a support group, as it maintains the relationship necessary for people to feel supported. People know that they have been appreciated and are encouraged to contribute further.

But... before acknowledging, check that there aren't already several similar messages! You don't want your conference clogged with messages saying 'Thanks!'.

PCP 2: Acknowledge before differing
"What I think you mean in essence is... Have I got that right? My own view differs as follows..."

If you disagree with someone, start by briefly re-stating what the other person has said in your own words. The person then knows that you are trying to understand them, and is thus in a better position to take your view seriously. Otherwise, you risk a sequence of statements flying across each other with little mutual understanding or possibility of coming to agreement (even if it is agreement to differ).

PCP 3: Speak from your own perspective (or at least some specified perspective)
"Here's how I see it/how I feel about it/what I want to do....."

Reference
Bob Zimmer and Gary Alexander,
"The Rogerian Interface: For open, warm empathy in computer mediated collaborative learning", Innovations in Education and Training International , 33, 1 (1996), pp. 13-21, Kogan Page."

Thank you Seekerof for raising this very important subject, that strives to enhance amicable on-line relationships!!

Hell, that sums me up perfectly!

* Make sure everyone realizes when you are trying to be funny. It is easy for messages to be misinterpreted since there are no physical gestures or voice inflections that accompany the text.

To avoid confusion, always assume that I am joking.

Originally posted by Jonna To avoid confusion, always assume that I am joking.

So... are you just joking about joking? Meaning... if you say you're always joking... and then say you're joking... does that mean you're serious? But how can that be if we should assume you're joking? [Edited on 18-2-2004 by SkepticOverlord]

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Originally posted by Jonna
To avoid confusion, always assume that I am joking.

So... are you just joking about joking?

Meaning... if you say you're always joking... and then say you're joking... does that mean you're serious? But how can that be if we should assume you're joking?

[Edited on 18-2-2004 by SkepticOverlord]

Drats! Foiled again.

Probubly the most difficult part is the breadth of the community.

Age levels, intelligence levels, maturity levels, in a group of 5000 members.

Invariably some may be offended by another's post, and not able to control their responce. As well as occasional human tendancy to 'strike back' and flame.

Quite honestly, ATS is huge in comparison to most boards of this type, and with the increased membership levels, the human tendancy reactions are averaging to be the norm spread out over the population.

But having been on other boards, this is one of the cleanest bunch around, reletive to a board that is undermoderated or age group, interest sector, limited.

Good rules for a great board. I will try to answer flamers and name callers with information instead of more name calling - I've noticed most move on to other forums when I don't take the bait.