92 Year Old Woman Goes Out Shooting When Cops Kick Down the Door(Update)

Please Stay On Topic

Let's try to avoid the rather time-worn tactic of using ad hominem or -- ironically enough in this case -- en.wikipedia.org..." target="_blank" class="postlink" rel="nofollow">appeal to authority tactics to "win" a debate.

It's okay for members to have different opinions about the topic.

It's not okay for members to inject personal commentary into a topical discussion, including thinly-veiled insults aimed at "people like you".

Members who wish to talk about themselves are welcome to use the Introductions or Members forums for that purpose, but not this one.

I've been asking as nicely as I can.

Please respect that.





(NOTE: This is a copy of what I posted here, and it is equally relevant to the discussion in this thread. Irony abounds.)



[edit on 11/30/2006 by Majic]

Originally posted by LoneGunMan
Nice just nice. The DEA and narcotics agents have been raiding the wrong homes way to long now. Breaking down doors of the elderly has happened a few times. 92. This woman lived 92 years to have some cops that broke down her door and scared her to the point she shot them.

"My aunt was in good health. I'm sure she panicked when they kicked that door down," Dozier said. "There was no reason they had to go in there and shoot her down like a dog."

There is no excuse for this, and if the "bootlickers" come and state some half baked jackboot loving ideas about this woman being a front or some other crud shame on them!! They killed a 92 year old woman! Is this war on America/war on drugs worth this stuff?

[edit on 22-11-2006 by LoneGunMan]

This wasn't a case of the wrong house, which would've been a terrible mistake. According to a CNN article:

The officers had gone to the old woman's house with a search warrant after buying drugs there from a man known only as Sam, police said.

...

Police issued a "John Doe" warrant on Wednesday for the arrest of Sam, believed to be in his early to mid 30s, who allegedly sold the drugs to the undercover agent.

CNN Article

They don't randomly go knocking on doors and trying to buy drugs either. Obviously they got a tip or complaint from someone and conducted an undercover buy operation and then went and got a warrant to search the house and arrest the dealer.

Yes it's sad that this granny died but they announced themselves prior to forcing the door and why does she have a drug dealer operating out of her residence.

In all reality they had no idea she was 92 until after they shot her. The person they bought the drugs from was in his 30's when they forced the door open (after announcing their presence) they were immediately fired on, 3 officers were struck and several returned fire.

The big question is who is this person that was dealing drugs out her house. That would, in my opinion, be the person most culpable for putting into motion the events that took this persons life.

Puzzling Evidence

Originally posted by SmallMindsBigIdeas
The big question is who is this person that was dealing drugs out her house. That would, in my opinion, be the person most culpable for putting into motion the events that took this persons life.

You might want to read this.

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
More information in this case. The informant who claimed to have bought drugs at the house from a man named Sam has now retracted that claim - he says he was convinced to lie about the drug buy (presumably after things went bad). This reinforces the idea that the cops likely had the wrong house.

That post includes a link to the news source.



[edit on 11/30/2006 by Majic]

Originally posted by Majic
Puzzling Evidence

Originally posted by SmallMindsBigIdeas
The big question is who is this person that was dealing drugs out her house. That would, in my opinion, be the person most culpable for putting into motion the events that took this persons life.

You might want to read this.

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
More information in this case. The informant who claimed to have bought drugs at the house from a man named Sam has now retracted that claim - he says he was convinced to lie about the drug buy (presumably after things went bad). This reinforces the idea that the cops likely had the wrong house.

That post includes a link to the news source.

[edit on 11/30/2006 by Majic]

Thank you, I had missed that post and reading the CNN article has led me to a completely different conclusion. It seems strange, to me at least, for a drug task force to be getting search warrants and doing a "no knock" operation based on the word of a single criminal/informant. I thought, apparently wrongly, that after they got a tip they did a undercover buy or some surveillance and then went and got a search warrant. To me that is the proper police work involved in a drug task force, something you do before requesting a warrant.

CI's (confidential informants) are not the best sources ... it is pretty common for them to lie. after all they're trying to garner some favoritism with someone regarding their case. Or this CI could have had a bad address since who knows what his mental state was when he was buying the drugs. A drug task force should know this and should be aware of the civil rights involved. I'm disappointed that a judge would sign off on this type of warrant. I'm sure it happens elsewhere but most judges around this area would not be willing to sign off on a warrant with no evidence of merit to a CI's claim.

It appears this department and courts there may want to review their policies a bit. The police department is legally covered because a judge signed off on the warrant but I would hope they learn something from this event. I'm sure the officers involved are horrified at the results of this particular raid.

Granny, this member salutes you.

You went out with guns blazing and thats the American dream.

pity she wasn't in her wheelchair and had tons of guns straped to the chair!

she could have had them covered for hours!

Good for you gran

posted by UK Alien Buff

Granny, this member salutes you. You went out with guns blazing and that’s the American dream. Pity she wasn't in her wheelchair and had tons of guns strapped to the chair! she could have had them covered for hours!
Good for you gran [Edited by Don W]

Barely 2 weeks later a similar incident happened in my city, Jacksonville. An older man - in his 70s - lived alone. His neighborhood was frequented by “drug dealers” hawking their wares brazenly on the street. It is in one of those neighborhoods the R&Fs have “given up” to the criminal elements. I formerly wondered how that could be, that criminals could “own” or “control” a neighborhood? If I was mayor or the chief of police, that would embarrass me. I could not rest until the law abiding citizens had taken back their streets. Then I realized why that was not done. The R&Fs are afraid the drug dealers would move into their neighborhoods. As between tolerating crime in your neighborhood and having it in my neighborhood, let’s keep it in yours! So say the R&Fs. Rich and Famous. Who are also the Movers and Shakers of any community. And nothing is done in any community that is not started by or approved by the Movers and Shakers. But I digress.

Towards 11 PM, the old man saw two ruffled strangers loitering in front of his house. He went to his door and asked them to leave, to “move on.” The two youngish men ignored the homeowner. A couple minutes later the old man came back to the door and again, ordered the two unseemly strangers to “move on.” The two men again ignored the homeowner.

Now, if you don’t live in one of those abandoned neighborhoods found in every American city, you should know that if you do telephone the police they will, more likely than not, ignore you. Only the feigned cry, “shots fired, policeman down” will be certain to raise a response. Otherwise, the residents of abandoned neighborhoods are strictly on their own. And you thought America was a law and order place?

Believe me, if you live in a gated subdivision it is. Cops come quickly when called. And one more thing. In Jacksonville, as late as the 1980s, fi the cops deigned to respond to a call for help in a black neighborhood, the “victim” might be insulted for his or her race and could easily end up being arrested if the “victim” did not “know his place.” So here’s an old man used to “self help” theory of law enforcement in the ghetto.

On the third try to get the 2 strangers to move on, the old man came to his door, this time armed with a pistol. Hey, this is America. 280 million firearms owned by 80 million citizens. Add about 10 million new guns each year.

The story gets ragged here. The 2 unkept men - we found out later - turned out to be undercover NARCs on a stake-out, intending to pull off a “sting” or a “bust” either buying or selling to anyone who approached them for drugs. They say - the old man did not get to tell his story as the 2 NARCs shot him 3 times, killing him on the front porch of his house - they say the old man shot at them first. Maybe, maybe not. Who can you trust these days? Police locker-room joke: “dead witnesses don’t talk.”

Now, according to the 2 NARCs, even though they were under fire, they managed to race back, and to find cover or shelter behind a tree. Unhurt. OK, heres the scene, old man on his porch shoots at cops - they say. They are both able to run back and hide behind a tree. Now, instead of calling for uniform backup to defuse this situation, they do the Christian thing, they return fire from their cover. And being younger, being well trained, being expert in firing their guns, being safe under cover, they were able to shoot down the old man and kill him on the spot! "Mission Accomplished!"

Score? Old man shot 3 times. KIA. Cops, no hits, no runs, nor errors. I guess you’d call it a slam dunk. The Chief of Police offered when he said he’d “investigate” the shooting, that it appeared to him the police had responded properly when fired upon.

Reminds me when I was very yong and in the service. When pulling armed guard duty at the stockade, the NCOIC would tell us recruits, if you kill one of the prisoners trying to escape, you will be fined $10 and given a carton of cigarettes but if he gets away, you’ll do his time. I wonder how many recruits actually believed the old NCOIC?

In Jacksonville as in Atalanta, citizens have given up liberties that we fought for in WW2. All in the guise of providing us with “security,” that elusive condition of the spirit that demagogues offer us. How much longer will we accept these miscarriages of justice and get no security in exchange? Oh, both the lady in Atlanta and the man in Jacksonville were people of color, so, what the hey, “life is tough.” It’s business as usual.

[edit on 3/13/2007 by donwhite]

Originally posted by Annachie
I read about this last night. Definatly needs to have someone look into this to find out what happend so it does not happen again.

I bet the cops are more embaressed that a 92-year old woman was able to hit 3 of them. That's better aim then the cops usually have...

LOL ....how humiliating. Grandma got off three rounds and nearly killed the interlopers. Seriously, the police should have had better intel. Pathetic.

COPS/PIGS HAVE NO HONOR

In the immortal words of almost all Rappers "# the Police"

They are the D students of America trying to "Clean up" society. Their efforts usually constitute harassment and intimidation. Their methods are invasive which usually lead to rash decision and major mistakes just like this one.

They are just tools of the state trying to earn a living because they don't really know how to improve society so they whore themselves out to the power because they cannot think for themselves.

There should be a statute that decrees that any officer must provide at least 15+ hours of backbreaking COMMUNITY SERVICE. Now that would really help out society, instead of hunting down 92 year old women and capping them in their own house.

We are all next. All they have to do is declare you an enemy combatant. I too would go down in a blaze of glory if I where in her position, to bad she didn't have a higher cal weapon. Those damn cop body armor makes them weak warrior without real honor.

To all those that posted in this thread saying it was ok for the woman to get killed:

here is the real story as to what happened

It seems as those 2 cops will now get 10 years for various charges including manslaughter and planting drugs on the scene

Originally posted by DJMessiah
It was said on the news today, by the Atlanta Police Chief that the drugs found in her home had been a small amount of marijuana. They didn't say exactly how much a "small" amount was, but they have confirmed it was there. Civil rights groups here want to now send a letter to Alberto Gonzales to provide an investigation into this matter.

SMALL amounts of marihuana!

This is so ridiculous. Hell around here 15 yrs olds walk around smoking marijuana and i doubt that the police is allowed to raid their homes and shoot them to death.

Even if it was something else, even if it was medium amounts. Who cares?

Ah yes I forgot, the honest and righteous citizen cares. The citizen who still believes in cops as your friend and savior. The citizen who believes that our governments are like our father. They only want the best for us!
And Drugs are EVIL! Because we are told so.. at least we don't have to think about what is really evil.
The people who are cops and pretend that 75% of cops are nice people. You should know that even here in Switzerland there are experienced cops who tell their sons that 90% of cops are bastards. This is no joke.

And from general experience it does not surprise me; No psychological education or examination. Poor Compassion, Moral and Self-Esteem.
This quickly leads to abuse of power and bashing on people who appear to be defenseless or weaker.

Maybe you are one of the good ones John, but your estimate about the amount of benevolent cops is quite puzzling. Are you sure that you know what "good" actually is?

The amount of so-called "righteous" opinions around here is crazy.
Even with the News about the small amounts of marihuana you guys will never admit that being against the grand-ma is a mentally distorted and ill OPINION.

It actually looks like a comedy show on TV now. A 92 yrs old preacher-woman gets shot for 1g of marijuana. Sadly enough it's not a comedy, it's real.

And in the same way you ignorants will never accept facing reality and true Righteousness. You will never think that something might be wrong here.

Funny, where is forsakenwayfarer now? Or Quicksilver? They all seem to disappear once the reality of the situation arises, if this were 90 years ago that could have been a beer she was killed over, maybe that will put things in perspective for you.

Damn glad to see the ole girl go out shooting. I hope she got herself one or two in the process. Gun in citizens hands in order to maintain control over the government. We need more 90 year olds, taking pot shots at the front door every now and then. Even if it was Mary Jane for her glaucoma! HA! LOL.

I find it sad that anybody, especially the old, has to live in a society where guns, drugs and violence are so prevalent.

*Edit*
I see there were no drugs involved after all. A tragic case of mistaken identity or wrong address. Is there then not a better way to handle this type of thing? What the hell is the matter with society that people have to live like this?

[edit on 20-12-2007 by rizla]

Originally posted by elevatedone
I can't wait ...

I think it would be funny if she turned out to be the drug dealer....

These cops didn't shoot first and ask questions later... they were fired upon and returned fire, just as they're supposed to do.

Odd reaction: 'it would be funny'.

I don't find this equates with 'cops protecting' anyone. My opinion.


[edit on 20-12-2007 by Badge01]

reply to post by rizla

I find it sad that anybody, especially the old, has to live in a society where guns, drugs and violence are so prevalent. I see there were no drugs involved after all. A tragic case of mistaken identity or wrong address. Is there then not a better way to handle this type of thing? What the hell is the matter with society that people have to live like this?

Great question, Mr Rizla. My short answer is, not quickly, not easily. America ha always had slums, always had Beacon Hill. We tried to address that disparity 2 times. The first in 1933-1945 with the New Deal, and the second in 1964-1968 with the Great Society. The New Deal has been largely undone and the Great Society was never fully funded. So much for “government of the people, by the people and for the people.”

About half of our population is mean spirited. I offer proof that no one would raise the minimum wage for 10 years running although most of us are on one form of COLA or another. Look at Congress. Not strictly on a COLA - the 27th Amendment bars that - they have proved the adage there is more than one way to skin a cat. Instead they have a Commission. It is to review the cost of living since its last incarnation and to arrive at an appropriate “adjustment” in Congressional pay. Since adopted, it has never failed to recommend an increase. The Commission’s recommendation goes into effect automatically. Every two years Congress gets a raise.

Many other Federal officials salaries are tied to Congressional pay. For example, all District Court judges receive the same pay as a congressman. The pay of Cabinet officers is tied to congressional pay as is the top pay for the military general officers. The pay scale for O10s - 4 stars - and other super-grades - GS18s - is about $20,000 more than congressional pay, but Congress limits their pay to the same amount they receive. So why a pay scale but limited? Simple. The generals retire at 75% of “scale” pay so when they do retire, the receive almost as much as when on active duty! Same for the Civil Service.

Could we take back our cities? Well, I think we could if we were prepared to spend $2 billion a week on America. We spend $2 billion a week in Iraq and not an eyebrow is raised even through there is good evidence that 20%-40% is stolen outright. The DoD has 75 auditors in Iraq but the DoD Inspector General says we need 2,000. Halliburton says “stay home.” Some observer say that - $2 billion a week - is why the Iraq Parliament cannot come to terms. As long as there is a $2 billion cow to be milked, what is the incentive to reach accommodation?

[edit on 12/21/2007 by donwhite]