The Schism in UFOlogy

There seems to be some sort of 'divide' developing here in this forum, and I'd like to ask those who love the subject to help me decide on something.

What are the aliens?

Are they flesh and blood beings who exist in our material universe or are they spiritual beings?

Some will say they are so highly evolved that they are both, manifesting themselves here from alternate universes, etc.

But that's not what I'm asking for...

What I'd like to know is how many believe they are beings from other planets in our galaxy (or beyond) and how many think they are angels, demons or spiritual beings?

Those who would like to combine the two as their answer are perhaps for another thread. In other words, I'd rather not hear about 'fence-sitting', but rather from those who consider themselves on one side of the issue or the other.

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[edit on 17-10-2006 by masqua]

I tend to think that they are physical beings. I have heard all of the arguments that they are "demons" or angels,et cetera; the only thing is, those entities are spiritual and not capable of maneuvering a physical vehicle.

[edit on 17-10-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

I think people say alien as a substitute for unknown.

That is how I interpret the word, as I use it anyway.

As for the people who write about them, I think its all Harry Potter stuff,
made up.

As for good and bad spirits, its a religious thing and belongs in that arena.

Unexplained mysteries might be miracles and all of us might have experienced
some of those.

So what did I say:

Aliens are beings unknown or made up or combination, we never had proof
but we had a lot of hoaxes.

Spirits, people's souls, etc. are religious beings or ideas.

Miracles are the Hand of God at work.

To put it concisely, for me, the probability of flesh and bone beings, living amongst the 1 billion yellow dwarf stars like our sun in the 100 billion stars in this galaxy alone, is a good one. The demons, angels, spirits, ghosts are aspects of a completely different manifestation to me.

I would say that the evidence suggests that they are physical entities, possibly able to travel interdimensionally, but not spirits and most definitely NOT angels.

I am of the opinion that any aliens that exist (if they do) are physical. Aliens are not spirits or angels for the same reason they are not unicorns, leprechauns, Humpty Dumpty, The Tooth Fairy, or deities.

Furthermore, I'll point out that up to now we have no real proof (or conclusive evidence) that anyone has ever seen an alien, the tooth fairy, deities, unicorns, leprechauns, or Humpty Dumpty. Therefore, this argument really boils down to:

Is [x] really [y]? Or in more concrete terms: Are blorgots really shimdoobles?

Until you show me one real blorgot OR shimdooble, I can't say anything meaningful about it.

thanks, I needed a good laugh today.

It seems, at least so far, that the concensus is firmly pointing to material extraterrestrial bodies, rather than the ethereal types who are able to de-materialize in a distant galaxy and materialize in your bedroom for a bit of 'whatever'.

I find it strange that, so far, no members have yet chimed in with the determination that they are spirits.

Masqua you have asked a good question.

I would say they (the Grey's) are physical but not a physical as our reality knows it.

Physical entities

Ethereal beings

Caveat: There are myriad 'types', only a few of which are here/have been here. Therefore, elsewhere in the galaxy/other galaxies there may be aliens of physical, ethereal or even hybrid composition.

I consider alien life, whether it be on another planet or visiting
us to be physical beings.


I don't believe in angels and demons etc. though I do believe
some incredibly evolved species may not exist on our plain of
existance anymore, though it's my opinion they either choose
not to interfere, or are so far removed, that it's impossible to
interact with us.



Oh, and to add, I don't believe that Grey aliens are evil, in general
with aliens I figure it's just like with humans, you have some good
ones, some bad ones and some neutral ones.

[edit on 10/17/2006 by iori_komei]

I believe they are physical entities. The one I saw did seem to run through a door though.

I also believe that some people call them demons, angels, etc. mostly out of religious beliefs. ie: God made us and only us, therefore anything else must be a demon or an angel.

Originally posted by masqua
I find it strange that, so far, no members have yet chimed in with the determination that they are spirits.

I just saw this thread for the first time. There are so many interesting ones that it's easy to miss some that go through the listed threads on the home page.

I am convinced that the "aliens" are actually demons. They are pretending to be aliens from an advanced world to better deceive people in a high-tech age, and to "tempt" such people with their highly developed technology.

The technology that the aliens/demons use, such as saucers and motherships, are just high-tech props to support the alien's deception and mislead people into thinking they are from some other planet or galaxy. These demons can travel without such devices but don't let on because it would ruin the illusion that they are "visitors" from another world.

Imho.i think they are definitly"material"beings.And that MOST are of a malevalent agenda.see:dulce papers,john lear.montauk project,etc.

They are made from Dark Matter. The 0.5% of matter we can perceive is not the primary type of matter in the universe. They can walk through walls and us because we are only 0.5% solid to them.

When my three girls were little, one night one of the short Grey's came for me. I told him that I couldn't go with him because I couldn't leave the girls alone. I was told not to worry that whenever I was gone they would be watched over by the Angels of God.

You can not put all Aliens into one catagory. The Grey's are "NOT" all bad.

I'd likely beef with you about UFOlogy being about what the "Aliens" are , as it really is about what the UFOs are.

But I digress.

I'd say that physical life in other Solar systems is as sure a bet as one could make. I personally think it is naive to think we are the only life in our Milky Way Galaxy that looks at the stars and wonders what else is out there.

I think there are real flesh-and-blood Other Civilizations out there, and calling them "demons" is absurd.

I also think that people "create" evil spirits/evil visions/etc.

What points to "non contact" and "non reality of demons" is how the attributes vary between culture and individuals. If you'd asked the Aztecs (or American Indians) to describe Europeans, you'd get some consistant answers (they live beyond the ocean toward the sunrise, they have fair skin, they speak a certain language that others can learn (and there would be a consensus on the words.) The answers of "what is a European"would be consistant no matter where the aborigine lived or what language they spoke. If asked about the ships, the aborigines would all have been able to tell you what it looked like -- consistantly.

Instead we get a zillion different "messages" and "languages" (all ofe which have the same construction as English) and motives and craft descriptions.

I used to believe in visitors, but after tracking down and talking to folks, and looking at evidence, I think the alien civilizations haven't contacted us and that demons are mostly psychic things.

This demon or angel business was borne out of ancient descriptions of beings/people that could do fantastic things compared to the non-tech humans of the eras. They reasoned that only demons or angels- take your pick- could do out of the ordinary things whcih humans could not. All of the older accounts describe angels or demons instead of UFO occupants or aliens simply because that was the nomeclature of the time.

Originally posted by masqua
There seems to be some sort of 'divide' developing here in this forum, and I'd like to ask those who love the subject to help me decide on something.

What are the aliens?

Are they flesh and blood beings who exist in our material universe or are they spiritual beings?

Some will say they are so highly evolved that they are both, manifesting themselves here from alternate universes, etc.

But that's not what I'm asking for...

What I'd like to know is how many believe they are beings from other planets in our galaxy (or beyond) and how many think they are angels, demons or spiritual beings?

Those who would like to combine the two as their answer are perhaps for another thread. In other words, I'd rather not hear about 'fence-sitting', but rather from those who consider themselves on one side of the issue or the other.

~~~~~~~~~~~~
spelling

[edit on 17-10-2006 by masqua]

I'll tell you what the real schism is. It's not whether these "beings" are highly-evolved extraterrestrials or if they're spiritual in nature. The debate should return back to the very roots of early 50's UFOlogy: Whether they are real or manifestations of a person's subconscious mind.

I find it noteworthy that for nearly 50 years, most "abduction" experiences have been fully realized with the help of hypnosis -- a dubious science at best. At worst, a suggestive parlor game that lets the mind's innate ability to imagine florish unbridled, transforming lie into a truth, allowing pretend to become reality, for the experiencer.

After 50 years, there has been no compelling physical evidence, no resounding documented experience from an unbiased source to convince me that there is anything beyond something that can easily be explained in psychological terms.

And this is coming from a former believer. I think that's the rub. The schism is a generation of UFO/Alien buffs who have spent much of their formative years asking and exploring and examining the evidence to finally be fully burned by repeated hoaxes, stories that stretch common sense and "secret government insiders" who, in the end, become nothing more than P.T. Barnum for the UFO community.

The schism is being spearheaded by people like me who have finally proclaimed it's time for the UFO community to either put up or shut up, and declare that the only aliens tredding foot on earthly soil are the ones concocted by our own imagination.

There is proof but it's not good enough because of the hoaxers.

Earth will always have the bad that will try to cover the good.

I will tell you, "THERE ARE ALIENS" and they are here in the deepest of our waters.

The problem is people do not have the gut feeling or the sense to when someone is telling them a truth.