Armageddon is like a pagan creation myth

In the bible, Armageddon is the end of the world. The serpent/dragon like beast rises out from the depths of the abyss, wreaks havoc along with others, and then Jesus comes to the rescue, slaying the serpent, looking him up in the pit, and inaugurates a whole new world with himself as king, and then everything is good.

In many pagan creation myths, a dragon rises up from the abyss, fights with the good god, is defated, ripped apart, and out of the primordial chaos arises the world, with the god-king as its lynchpin.

These elements are very similar no? I would not say that christians stole the pagan myths, or intentionally copied them, or anything like that. Thats really a matter of faith and beleif. But these admitedly broad and simplified structures from the stories seem similar no?

It isn't by chance that they are similar. All part of the Satans plan to deceive mankind.

He knows the predicted outcome.

It's no different than his plan to have mankind worshipping the sun god instead of the Son of God.

Fair enough.

I think it puts a somewhat new look on the apocalypse. People focus on the terrible chaos, and then tend to, I think, think that thats the end of the world.

But its not, the bible says its the start of a perfected and corrected world, a thousand year existence to the ancients (which for them, essentially meant, a near infinitely long time). It represents the begining of a worldly existence, in a sense, its like we, now, are living in the chaotic times of the pre-creation of the world from the old myths, when up isn't distinguished from down, evil from good, etc etc. And that there will come a time when the earth is fully and perfectly formed.

We know nothing about events in that Millenial Kingdom, and we don't know much about the actual End of Existence that comes after it, when the earth, the pit, Leviathin, the lake of fire, the beast, everything, is ultimately destroyed.

Originally posted by Nygdan
We know nothing about events in that Millenial Kingdom, and we don't know much about the actual End of Existence that comes after it, when the earth, the pit, Leviathin, the lake of fire, the beast, everything, is ultimately destroyed.

When you are saying they are destroyed, what do you mean by that?

This old earth will pass away and a new heavens and earth will be made. satan and the beast will be forever in the Lake of Fire. Some things will be gone, some will exist in a horrible place and a new universe will forever be inhabited by God and and the redeemed.

Well, d, I think we discussed this in another thread, but it seems like, if there is an end to the universe, that it includs the destruction of earth, and the lake of fire, the beast, etc, permanently, leaving only the realm of god himself intact.

You might even be able to say that this is the culmination of a longer term process.

So with the creation of the world, there is sin, brought in by man, or by the devil as the satan, however one prefers, so the whole of existence, while 'good enough', is a mix of good and evil stuff. Then comes along the flood, destroying the excessive wickedness of man. Then perhaps the covenants with isreal, rendering the world more redeemable and good. Then the big event, the passion and crucifixtion and the opening of a way to save people from sin personally. Then the apocaylpse, where evil is defeated, BUT, locked up in the Pit. And then, after the reign of jesus on earth, its ALL snuffed away, and all that is left is Heaven. There is no more evil in all of existence at all after that.

I agree, this is not the normal perception of it, and I am not convinced of it myself. BUt it does seem a relatively valid and intersting way to look at it all.

I mean, I suppose that the major objection might be that if that happens, then the unsaved aren't punished in hell forever.
But, i mean, god damn, thats a weird universe no? I mean, I can understand, in concept at least, creating heaven, earth, and hell, and punishing the wicked and unsaved in hell while the earth is around. And then when evil is defeated, at the apocalypse/armageddon, seperating all evil from the goodly world entirely, by locking it up.
But then, when the universe is destroyed, why only destroy earth and the material world, why leave the pit, filled with all those people who've been locked up since armageddon and before, around permentantly, even after the final destruction of the earth?
God is triumphant over evil in the battle of armageddon, why is Existence going to perpetually have this 'segregated evil sector' to it??


This brings up another question relevant to this. If we think of the apocalypse as similar to the pagan creation myths, and thus the formation of, in a sense, a newly perfected world, how do people behave in those times? Is there religion like the religion of adam, talking directly to god? Or does god (the father) not 'walk amoung' them in the kingdom (but jesus does)?
It seems like this might imply that there will be a further way of worship, and perhaps even further revelations from god in that perfected paradisical kingdom leading up to the ultimate destruction of matter and supreme and sole existence of the heavenly realm. So perhaps it is possible that, while we think that hell exists forever, that god only intends to keep it around for as long as he keeps the earth around, and will infact then annihilate it all.
Thoughts? Not trying to preach something here, and I doubt that this is really new anyway.

If any end myth is correct, I like the Norse end myth of Ragnarök . Because you will be able to tell when the end is going to come, by the three years of winter. Then the giants and what not come out and destroy the civilizations, then the gods come down and battle each. Every one dies in the end, then the two beings (Líf and Lífthrasir) come out of the world tree where they took shelter, and begin a whole new world/universe.

Its one of the coolest Armageddon senarios.

p.s. Whats so cool about the above senario, is that the gods know who will fight who and that they will all die, and that there is no way to prevent it.

Don't forget, though, that the word 'apocalypse' is not synonymous with 'eschatological.'

The book of Revelation is just that - a revelation, a vision of the 'end of the age' not the world.

And this (present age) is the second age that we are told of, in the bible...that makes three all together.

One is just over when Genesis begins and the third one is just about to begin when Revelation ends...

As far as the consistent themes of dragons and such - I think archetypes are more than just a Jungian theory.

IF you apply what is written in other parts of the bible (that there is but ONE God who created ALL men) then it seems reasonable to apply that to the symbology that links bible and outside-of-bible end-of-the-age mythos.

What I mean is that if God talks to those in the bible through consistent symbols and vision scenarios - then surely He talks to those not written of in the bible in the very same way. After all - all are human!