ChemTrails for defense against space based Scalar Weapons

The obvious question then is this assuming this is correct: who is aiming this weapon at us and why? I have to assume it is not Russia nor China so who is it?

Is it aliens? Is that why they can't tell us because to do so would require disclosure of the alien agenda?

HowardRoark, so what is the normal dissipation rate for a contrail?

Here, play around, then come back and tell all of us;

itg1.meteor.wisc.edu...

Then all I have to say, is that the last time I was in Portland, every day I personally witnessed unmarked (I looked), white jets flying a crisscross pattern and leaving a tic tac toe like grid that hung in the air for hours, and dissipated in a haze which covered the entire city.

Other commercial airliners which flew to and from PDX, left normal contrails which dissipated in about 30 seconds. Altitudes of commercial and unmarked jets were the same.

Interestingly enough, especially if you know about single engine planes and FAA regulations, two Cessna/Piper type planes were also flying pattern at mid/low alt, and they also did not have any markings on them, I looked, and I know where to look.

Telescope, tripod, log book, the works.

The trails, what ever they might be, settled around 5PM, and both my wife and I began experiencing flu/allergy type symptoms, which disappeared ofter a nights sleep, and then the cycle repeated it self the next day.

When we got back to LA, all symptoms disappeared immediately.

Neither my wife nor I came down with actual flu, nor do we have any allergies.

Personally I do know the symptoms of exposure to toxic chemicals, especially upper respiratory ones, and no, it’s not just air pollution.

edit:typos



[edit on 17-10-2006 by iskander]

Normal dissipation rate? You people must think the atmosphere is static, never changing, and that every contrail is the same, in order to somehow think they must all last the same time

WRONG.

There is no set time a contrail must dissipate. Is there a set time that clouds must dissapear too? What about rain storms also? Is there a normal temp in the atmosphere? Is the humidity the same too? What about the altitudes of aircraft?

I think some of you need some sinister plot to feel like you are in on, to give meaning to your lives in areas where your information is lacking. Instead of reading stupid chemtrail message boards, why not learn more about aviation and meteorology?

The upper air temps can vary, so can the humidity, also so can the capacity of the air to hold moisture. The altitudes of the aircraft vary, as do the power settings and temps of the engines.

Ever notice on chemtrail message boards, around this time of the year, its back to "Wow, biggest spray day ever!! Those spray boys are out in force!" that always coincides with fall and winter?

The water from the jet turbine exhaust can freeze and turn into cirrus, and then it can hang around quite a while. Its beyond me why people think cirrus must quickly dissipate in very cold temps up there, why they have no problem with ice on the ground lasting a long time.

But I am sure this will just fall on deaf ears, because some people need conspiracies rather than science and learning new things. How many messages until I get callled a government shill or agent?

Originally posted by iskander
HowardRoark, so what is the normal dissipation rate for a contrail?

From about 0.1 sec to several days dependant on atmospheric conditions.

Then all I have to say, is that the last time I was in Portland, every day I personally witnessed unmarked (I looked), white jets flying a crisscross pattern and leaving a tic tac toe like grid that hung in the air for hours, and dissipated in a haze which covered the entire city.

Other commercial airliners which flew to and from PDX, left normal contrails which dissipated in about 30 seconds. Altitudes of commercial and unmarked jets were the same.

Are you absolutely 100% sure they were all at the same altitude? Only it sounds to me that those white, unmarked aircraft producing persitent contrails were international flights flying at a higher altitude to those coming in to land at Portland airport ..... I'm not sure what markings commercial airliners have on their undersides but I bet it's not much and barely visible from 30,000ft ....

The trails, what ever they might be, settled around 5PM

What do you mean settled?

The only way anything sprayed overhead could settle on you is if there was no wind at any altituide. That simply never happens. Besides, anything with spreads out into sheets of cirrostratus is clearly not precipitating to the surface.

If anything were sprayed on you that day it would have been from low level and most probably not visible.

It was unmarked and you saw that from a plane that was miles and miles above you

"REALLY??"

Chemtrail believers claim to have super human vision and can discern from 5-8 miles underneath and airplane and sometimes laterally off to the side miles also, whether an aircraft has its registration markings on it or not.

The required registration for US aircraft marking is a one foot high N number. Now tell us again how you know it was missing

Originally posted by iskander
HowardRoark, so what is the normal dissipation rate for a contrail?

Here, play around, then come back and tell all of us;

itg1.meteor.wisc.edu...

Cute, but overly simplified. It deoesn't reeally address the issue of ice supersaturated regions that well, since it implies that ice crystals formed in a supersaturated environment will eventually sublimate, which is not the case.

Then all I have to say, is that the last time I was in Portland, every day I personally witnessed unmarked (I looked), white jets flying a crisscross pattern and leaving a tic tac toe like grid that hung in the air for hours, and dissipated in a haze which covered the entire city.

Just what sort of pattern do you think commercial flights are supposed to make overhead?

They either fly parallel lines or they cross. There is absolutely no other possibilty.

Other commercial airliners which flew to and from PDX, left normal contrails which dissipated in about 30 seconds. Altitudes of commercial and unmarked jets were the same.

How do you know what the altitudes were?

Did you check the flights out on flight explorer?

It is physically impossible for the human dept percection to determine if an airplane is flying at 20,000 feet or 30,000 feet. Our eyes are not far enough apart.
Use of a telescope won't help either.

firepilot,

are you Iblis? you speak a lot like him.

Nope. I am new here. Lurked now and then and would occasional read messages, just recently registered.

Cute, but overly simplified. It deoesn't reeally address the issue of ice supersaturated regions that well, since it implies that ice crystals formed in a supersaturated environment will eventually sublimate, which is not the case.

Well, since now we're on the same page, give me an example of meteorological conditions that will support sustained crystallization for over 5 hours. Personally, the only possibility I managed to come up with was hail/snow, with the natural descent rate, and it's still not cutting anywhere close to 5 hours. Not to mention thermodynamics.

That is precisely why the contrails of commercial jets dissipated with in 30 seconds. That's what got my attention in the firsts place.

How do you know what the altitudes were?

Proportional ranging through the use of digital camera resolution as a base line. Pixel per pixel.

Did you check the flights out on flight explorer?

Didn't have to. I simply found a web site from locals in Portland that actually monitors all such unschedualed flights and forward the info to FAA. It's kind of the law, I'm sure you know.

They monitor it full time. There is an entire movement in Portland on the whole thing. People passing out leaflets on the streets and all.

And I'm not talking about raving lunatics with nothing better to do. I'm talking about filed professionals.

It is physically impossible for the human dept persecution to determine if an airplane is flying at 20,000 feet or 30,000 feet. Our eyes are not far enough apart.
Use of a telescope won't help either.

True, but we're not exactly living in Galileo times. If you want I can describe the digital camera resolution method to you in detail, but I'm getting a drift that you'd know all about proportional ranging.

Cirrus is ice crystals, whether its naturally occuring, or results from aircraft engine exhaust, its the same thing. Cirrus can stay around for hours or days. There is no rule that cirrus ice crystals MUST sublimate quickly.

With air temps of -40 or so, and the air being really really thin, tell me why a contrail must disappear quickly if the water has frozen

Also, if it does last long, how does that mean chemical spraying and which chemicals does that mean?

With air temps of -40 or so, and the air being really really thin, tell me why a contrail must disappear quickly if the water has frozen

Start here - itg1.meteor.wisc.edu...

Also, if it does last long, how does that mean chemical spraying and which chemicals does that mean?

Look into various aerosol sprays. Ssmoke cover, ECM screens, etc.

You still do not understand the concept.

There is no rule that ice can only last a finite amount of time. If you think that java applet supports the idea of chemical spraying, feel free to contact that atmospheric science department.

Heck, why stop there, contact National Center for Atmospheric Research too.

Have you never seen a cirrus overcast, or even cirrus that lasted for hours or all day?
What if snow lasts in your yard for more than 2 hours do you get scared then too?

A typical log;

asd-www.larc.nasa.gov...

A cirrus cloud is a type of cloud composed of ice crystals and characterized by thin, wisplike strands, often accompanied by tufts. Sometimes these wispy clouds are so extensive that they are virtually indistinguishable from one another, forming a veil or sheet called "cirrostratus".

I hate wiki, but hey, I'm multitasking at the moment.

en.wikipedia.org...

In short, NOT what I saw.

More tangible stuff here;

geo.arc.nasa.gov...

www.aero.jussieu.fr...

ams.allenpress.com...(1973)012%3C1213:AMSMFE%3E2.0.CO%3B2

www.ucar.edu...

So a few (i think I counted about 6) jet liners can produce a cirrus cover large enough to cover the entire city in completely clear skies?

Cover that hangs literally for hours?

I don't think so, bur even if they can, that by default would count as weather modification.

Let me say what i think is realy weird in all this:

is almoust offensive when some one brings here tons of proofs and evidences and always some one shows up saying this is crap, or we are all delusional!!

there are tons of photos about this subject that are in fact the best proof!, no more is need it, so after that all the denial will be just simple trooling or desinfo!

this is like some one showing a moon or mars "stone heads" and there are always some one that just see there ROCKS!
if something is realy offensive it's this kind of bheavior!

back in topic...:

This pics realy looks soooo normal... ...:

This images in the video are also something..."delusional"?

Maybe all this photos can be a optical ilusion ... ...


What i think trolls and desinfo agents never will learn is that the true can´t be hidded from the eyes, and as the chinese used to say, : " A image is stronger then 1000 words"!

well...what ever...pray continue debating if this is just london fog, venus gases or whatever

[edit on 17-10-2006 by Umbra Sideralis]

More contrail photos? After all of these years of this, there is still no picture of a "chemplane" at an airport, or even a clear picture of one in the air. No pics of such modified planes anywhere, no explanation of how these supposed mixtures are run thru turbine engines either.

So is it your assertion, yes or no, that ice crystals have a short lifespan? And if so, what is the max time an ice crystal can exist?

This is about as funny as when chemmies say that contrails are actually chemtrails if they are parallel, but also if they intersect too. Funny stuff.

Originally posted by iskander

So a few (i think I counted about 6) jet liners can produce a cirrus cover large enough to cover the entire city in completely clear skies?

Cover that hangs literally for hours?

I don't think so, bur even if they can, that by default would count as weather modification.

They can and they do. Besides, as I mentioned before, if it says around that long then it's obviously not falling to Earth to make you ill.... So how is it a 'chemtrail'?

But I would argue that yes, it is inadvertent weather/climate modification.

Originally posted by iskander

Cute, but overly simplified. It deoesn't reeally address the issue of ice supersaturated regions that well, since it implies that ice crystals formed in a supersaturated environment will eventually sublimate, which is not the case.

Well, since now we're on the same page, give me an example of meteorological conditions that will support sustained crystallization for over 5 hours.

Typical tropical cirrus systems last for 19-30 ± 16 h.

cat.inist.fr...


Of course the real mystery here is why you believe that the upper air system that is directly over your head is the same one that was there five hours ago!!!!

Originally posted by iskander
Personally, the only possibility I managed to come up with was hail/snow, with the natural descent rate, and it's still not cutting anywhere close to 5 hours. Not to mention thermodynamics.

The life cycle of clouds is an active area of research these days. Are you familiar with any of that research?

A two-dimensional cirrus cloud model has been developed to investigate the interaction and feedback of radiation, ice microphysics, and turbulence-scale turbulence, and their influence on the evolution of cirrus clouds. The model is designed for the study of cloud-scale processes with a 100-m grid spacing. The authors have incorporated a numerical scheme for the prediction of ice crystal size distributions based on calculations of nucleation, diffusional growth, advection, gravitational sedimentation, and turbulent mixing. The radiative effect on the diffusional growth of an individual ice crystal is also taken into account in the model. The model includes an advanced interactive radiative transfer scheme that employs the δ-four-stream approximation for radiative transfer, the correlated k-distribution method for nongray gaseous absorption, and the scattering and absorption properties of hexagonal ice crystals. This radiation scheme is driven by ice water content and mean effective ice crystal size that represents the ice crystal size distribution. To study the effects of entrainment and mixing on the cloud, a second-order turbulence closure has been developed and incorporated into the model. Simulation results show that initial cloud formation occurs through ice nucleation associated with dynamic and thermodynamic forcings. Radiation becomes important for cloud evolution once a sufficient amount of ice water is generated. Radiative processes enhance both the growth of ice crystals at the cloud top by radiative cooling and the sublimation of ice crystals in the lower region by radiative heating. The simulated ice crystal size distributions depend strongly on the radiation fields. In addition, the radiation effect on individual ice crystals through diffusional growth is shown to be significant. Turbulence begins to play a substantial role in cloud evolution during the maintenance and dissipation period of the cirrus cloud life cycle. The inclusion of turbulence tends to generate more intermediate-to-large ice crystals, especially in the middle and lower parts of the cloud. Incorporation of the second-order closure scheme enhances instability below the initial cloud layer and brings more moisture to the region above the cloud, relative to the use of the traditional eddy mixing theory.

source

A nice slide presentation

and another one

Originally posted by iskander
That is precisely why the contrails of commercial jets dissipated with in 30 seconds. That's what got my attention in the firsts place.

What factors do YOU think might affect the rate of sublimation?

Please answer this, because I need to try to figure out where your understanding of the physics and thermodynamics involved breaks down.

Why can’t a contrail last for longer than 30 seconds?

Cirrus clouds don't just form and die, but can regenerate, detailed images of ice crystals show

source

Originally posted by iskander

If you want I can describe the digital camera resolution method to you in detail, but I'm getting a drift that you'd know all about proportional ranging.

Proportional ranging. Is that where you compare the apparent size of two objects to determine how far away they are?

So, according to that theory, the plane that appears to be smaller in this photo is farther away from the camera than the plane that appears to be bigger, is that right?

www.airliners.net...

Here are chemtrails on ABC news.

ABC news

Howard thinks Ice supersturation regions explain the entire CT issue. Howard
I personally am not talking about persistant contrails, I have seen those since I was a
child. I am talking about line after line of chemtrails that spread out and cause a complete overcast.
I am talking about seeing an entire car lot covered in a spiderweb
looking material. I am talking about chemtrails on the horizon.
Stop cherry picking.




[edit on 18-10-2006 by LoneGunMan]

Originally posted by LoneGunMan
Howard thinks Ice supersturation regions explain the entire CT issue. Howard
I personally am not talking about persistant contrails, I have seen those since I was a
child. I am talking about line after line of chemtrails that spread out and cause a complete overcast.

And how do you know that the atmospheric conditions weren’t such that the overcast would not have occurred anyway (with or without any contrails)?

Originally posted by LoneGunMan
I am talking about seeing an entire car lot covered in a spiderweb
looking material.

How do you know that this was not a spider ballooning event?

The life cycle of clouds is an active area of research these days. Are you familiar with any of that research?

It was a clear day with out a cloud in the sky. Same pattern for three days in a row.

HowardRoark, I was there, I'm not a conspiracy theorist, and I've been on this earth long enough to tell a cloud from an aerosol cover.

What factors do YOU think might affect the rate of sublimation?

Please answer this, because I need to try to figure out where your understanding of the physics and thermodynamics involved breaks down.

Why can’t a contrail last for longer than 30 seconds?

HowardRoark, you are either not following me, or you are just set to beat around the bush until I just get bored.

As I clearly stated earlier, REGULAR flights out of PDX left a contrail which dissipated with in 30 seconds, while UNMARKED jest I've PERSONALLY seen, left a trail which hung in the sky for hours, and upon descending on the city, both my wife and I began experiencing symptoms.

Proportional ranging. Is that where you compare the apparent size of two objects to determine how far away they are?

So, according to that theory, the plane that appears to be smaller in this photo is farther away from the camera than the plane that appears to be bigger, is that right?

It's not a theory. Take a picture of ANYTHING at a set resolution, count the pixels, then calculate the distance based on the known dimensions of the object.

Have you ever seen a ranging scale? Exactly the same principle.

In any case, HowardRoark, I know what I saw and felt, so does my wife, and thousands upon thousands of other people in Portland.

After such "events", a trend of increased hospital visits for flu/allergies are clearly documented, together with increased sales of over the counter medications, all while being completely outside of usual flu/allergy seasons.

Doctors are saying it, not me. So for what ever reason, cases of upper respiratory irritations, headaches, nausea, etc, increase after sightings of dense, lingering type contrails/chemtrails.

It's all documented, do your own research.