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Originally posted by nullster
Shamanator - Well put. You posted a reasonable list. But of course, no matter what you or how well it is written you will step on the dreams of the faithful, believers and overall zealotry that can permeates the discussion process.
For many UFO's is not about proving anything. It is simply believing. I've seen that written in many ways time and again. At that extrme it is close to impossibe to carry on a coherent objective conversation. Simply put, making the points you made will mark you a blasphemer.
With that, I've seen a maturation process on this forum. Objectivety over time will win out. It's not hard for anyone to see the subject matter is rife with charismatic chareletans and individuals looking to fake connections, images, videos to undermine whats left of the phenomenon.
Originally posted by nullster
Shamanator - Well put. You posted a reasonable list. But of course, no matter what you or how well it is written you will step on the dreams of the faithful, believers and overall zealotry that can permeates the discussion process.
Originally posted by Shamanator
These people all have their own agendas maybe its fame maybe its money maybe their just desperate to try and make their beliefs taken more seriously. a lot of people make a lot of wild claims It's Attention seeking at best.
Originally posted by Shamanator
4: Making Arguments that are impossible to prove in science and disregarding current science as
wrong to make them . For example wormholes, FTL travel and anything else they have seen in
the latest movie.
[edit on 10-10-2006 by kinglizard]
nullster speaking to fyodor
fyodor - Government is a large operation as stated in his point especially its interaction with the various military agenies. Given accounts of the number of military personnel involved in numerous "so called recoveries over 60 years, the only ones that have come forward haven't stood up to scrutiny. The likes of Corso do not stand up under scrutiny. Taking the hard work of individual people and their employers and applying their works to aliens is just shameful.
People need to understand that individuals in the US government and world governments are not Mindless Drones. They are human beings like you and I. They are driven by the same motivations and faults as anyone else. How many people actually know government employees or Vets. Are they drones?
In over 60 years it is highly improbable that not one of these souls would produce physical tangible evidence.
[edit on 10-10-2006 by nullster]
Originally posted by Shamanator
I'm afraid the paintings you speak of are well known and debunked already not that it's stops them being constantly used as evidence. This site puts them in context with their real meanings sprezzatura.it...
Shamanator
6: Believing that a Government full of constantly changing individuals could hide something potentially dangerous for over 50 years. Could anyone on Earth keep a secret like that for even 5 years I seriously doubt it. Also it seems that they take everything reasonable explanation offered as a cover up.
Secrecy in the Manhattan Project was so complete that many people working for the organization did not know what they were working on until they heard about the bombing of Hiroshima on the radio.
Originally posted by Shamanator
1: Trying to prove a Alien UFOs by a process of elimination using the same faulty reasoning I could claim all UFOs must be Dragons.
Believing that a lot of unconvincing cases are as good evidence as 1 airtight case. They are not.
Trying to make unbelievers disprove visiting Aliens don't exist.
The burden of proof should be on whoever is making the far out claims.
Making Arguments that are impossible to prove in science and disregarding current science as wrong to make them . For example wormholes, FTL travel and anything else they have seen in the latest movie.
5: Extremely biased towards any Alien possibility
and directing research only in that direction ignoring any evidence to the contrary as if it doesn't even exist.
Believing that a Government full of constantly changing individuals could hide something potentially dangerous for over 50 years. Could anyone on Earth keep a secret like that for even 5 years I seriously doubt it.
Also it seems that they take everything reasonable explanation offered as a cover up.
Connecting UFOs with psychics, channellers and other unscientific occult practises. If you want UFOs taken seriously why make it even more wacky it doesn't help and I don't believe you.
Name calling and ridiculing seems common to anyone who had a different view I don't really mind this but it isn't exactly proving their case to me.
UFO is exactly what it claims to be Unidentified flying object I fail to see any connection to Alien spacecraft which is the first jump of logic to many of you.
I think if I've learned anything it is to not take UFO reports very seriously when some people see every light in the sky as Aliens it makes all reports less convincing as a whole.
I am now more convinced than ever while there may be aliens in the universe somewhere they are not visiting here.
If there was real solid evidence I would consider it but I think we all really know there isn't and never will be.
Originally posted by selfless
Shamanator i suggest you watch this video.
video.google.com...
It's a very good video with very unique footage i am sure you would appreciate it.
Please note that i am not insulting you in any way by giving you this video link, it's just a very good video for anyone to watch. regardless of where you stand.
Edited: it gets very interesting at arounf 25 mins in when they start to show the thousands of ufo's in the sky all at once and clear as day.
it does not look like a fake video...
[edit on 10-10-2006 by selfless]
Originally posted by Sophismata
Originally posted by fyodor
A "2-3" mile dust particle? If you actually DID see the movie, you'd have realized that the UFOs were travelling BEHIND the teather
I hestitate to respond to you as you appear to be abusive, but your claims here are not substantiated. The only way you'd be able to tell how big something is would be by having another camera for a stereoscopic view. If I hold my thumb out at night and close one eye, I can cover the moon. Does that mean my thumb is as big as the moon?
As for being behind the tether - there is no evidence of that. It is quite common for out-of-focus blurs of close objects to to appear to be behind a much brighter, CCD-saturating object in the distance (such as the tether). So, while I see notched halos from out-of-focus dust, you see alien spacecraft that are miles in diameter and just happen to be oriented flat with respect to the camera location. I wonder which is more likely..
Originally posted by fyodor
By god, are those dust particles sneaky. I mean, they all appear to have notches etched out near their rims, they all have holes carved out in their centers, and they all share a mysterious "pulsing" property when visible to the naked eye. And not to mention, they tend to like making random appearances within our atmosphere from time to time, in several different countries.
Those dust particles must have minds of their own!
*sigh*
Deductive reasoning, pattern recognition & common sense. Marvelous wonders may succumb if all three are used efficiently.
[edit on 10-10-2006 by fyodor]