The Deity Of Christ Conspiracy

That is one of the most guy puts hands over ears and goes lalalalala posts i've read in a good while I found your explanation quite humorous(grasping for straws mate) and that contradiction is one of many I could give you but it would need another thread. If you are up for it create a thread and I will post in it. The mere fact there are so many "versions" which by the way have words changed between them should show you that the bible has been tampered with and thus what we have today cannot be considered the word of god. It's been edited much more though,again if you think you are ready please create a thread and I will discuss ths with you, you seem like a nice enough guy.

Not enough time in my life right now....maybe in a month or two I'll start that post.

Actually there are only very few translational mistakes over the years. This is particularly true for the old testiment, as Jewish transcribal doctrine required an entire copy be destroyed and restarted if so far as one mistake was made or discovered.

When the Dead Sea Scrolls were found, they were almost exactly the same as the modern texts today. I say almost because there were differences, but they were so remote as to be considered non affecting, like sentence structure style and differences in conjugation due to the languages evolving themselves through time.

Now, I will consede to you that the "major" translational differences we see today are due primarily to the fact that both Greek, Aramaic, and Hebrew do not exactly or directly translate into English, and there have been some translation differences over the course of history. For example Greek has 4 or 5 words for different specific types of "love". In English, we pretty much just have the word "love". So in any English translation of the Bible were the word love appears, you can figure that verse could have a more specifc meaning of the word, but the general point comes across. This is often the case with Greek, but the direct Greek word would provide you with a more specific understanding of the scripture. However; according to most of the worlds literary and Bible experts, none of these have or are beleived to have greatly changed the central messages and themes of the Bible, our translations today are still valid and true to the original word, but maybe not as descriptive. In fact what most of our modern translations, like the NIV, have done was to go back and look at the original languages and try to get a more "direct" translation.

I will repost if I can find more info on our "judas" contradicition, but I have got to go give the kids a bath. Nice postin' with you.

Elijio, Wing Commander:

Elijio to Only God Knows >> That is one of the most guy puts hands over ears and goes lalalalala posts i've read in a good while I found your explanation quite humorous(grasping for straws mate) . . .

Wing apparently to Elijio >> I will repost if I can find more info on our "judas" contradicition, but I have got to go give the kids a bath. Nice postin' with you.

How about you guys carrying your ‘off topic’ chat to another thread. Neither of you appear willing to name anyone atop your chat messages, or to quote anybody from the debate, or to even say one thing on this topic; which is:

OP Hypothesis >> One of the most insidious doctrines of men is the “Deity Of Christ” ( www.theopedia.com... ) that teaches “Jesus is God.” This is Satan’s most devious device of the ‘deluding influence’ (2Thes. 2:11) that blinds the minds of the unbelieving (2Cor. 4:3+4). The typical Denominational interpretation is that Jesus is God AND man at the very same time. The truth is that Jesus Christ is the “Son of God.” John the Baptist tells you “the truth” (Jn 5:33) right in the very beginning.

Many of these topics are hijacked to SomeWhereElseVille, as members chat about which books of Scripture are authentic, those not worthy of being canonized, tampered with, badly edited, transliterated, and just about everything else part of man’s vain imagination. Everyone wants to change God’s Word, when ‘their’ personal interpretation somehow does not fit with Scripture. You guys should start a thread on that topic and allow us to debate the “Deity of Christ Conspiracy” on this one.

BTW, when addressing anything part of this debate, please name that member and quote him to give your own words context to something in ‘this’ debate. Otherwise you are barking at the wind. Thank you.

GL,

Terral

Hi Interested:

Thank you for writing on “The Deity Of Christ Conspiracy” Thread.

Interested >> I think you have some good ideas, but for the life of me I can't seem to follow your threads. Good subjects, but the way the presentation is made has left me in the dust. If you would like for more people to participate I would suggest that you lay things out more clearly. You are throwing too many ideas in too close together or something. Usually I love these debates, but I just can't comprehend the message. This is just my opinion, for what it is worth.

Those having difficulty following along are encouraged to “quote me >>” and ask questions. A carefully prepared question does wonders in exposing and flanking any debating opponent into revealing any weaknesses in his position. My presentations are purposely written with a three tiered ‘faith’ (seed), ‘knowledge’ (shoot) and ‘wisdom’ (fruit) teaching dynamic working within each carefully prepared Opening Post.



Christ In You (Colossians 1:27) is one aspect of “this mystery among the Gentiles” where the new “inner man” (2Cor. 4:16) is ‘renewed day by day.’ The prerequisite for qualifying to even begin understanding my teachings is obedience to what Paul calls the “word of the cross” (1Cor. 1:18) gospel message (Gospel #2 from this thread >> www.abovetopsecret.com... ). Only then are believers baptized into Christ (Gal. 3:27) to become the ‘new creature’ (2Cor. 5:16-17) of the “new creation” (Gal. 6:15) prepared for these “new things” to come,

“Therefore from now on we recognize no one according to the flesh; even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him in this way NO LONGER. Therefore “IF” (huge qualifier) anyone is “IN” Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, NEW THINGS have come.” 2Cor. 5:16+17.

My recommendation to everyone seeking to truly come to an accurate and much deeper understanding of my work is that you read the Pauline Epistles from a modern translation (NASB and NKJV are fine, but not NIV) three times. Paul’s letters to the Gentiles contain the living AND active (Heb. 4:12) ingredients for the members of “Christ’s body” (1Cor. 12:27 = that’s us) in the world today. Take the time to underline each proper name in Paul’s letters using a pen and straightedge, while making sure your Study Bible (I use Nelson's) has sufficient room in the columns for cross referencing verses. You will only receive seeds in the first reading and some shoots will begin emerging in the second reading. By the time you have finished the third reading, some signs will begin appearing of the fruit of God’s Hidden Wisdom (1Cor. 2:6+7).

My OP’s are drafted using the same model given us by the Apostle Paul in Scripture, where complicated wisdom aspects are sewn into the delivery of knowledge and faith precepts. Remember that I am writing ‘to the archives’ for your benefit and those joining the ATS Board in the future. The ATS Format does not allow me to write three OP’s on a single topic to bring babes into the ‘faith’ aspects with the first, then junior students into the ‘knowledge’ characteristics with a second and then the wisdom facets in yet a third thread. Therefore, I am forced to serve the infant in Christ AND those walking towards the Light of God’s Hidden Wisdom and Glory in the face of Christ through a single OP presentation. That means you might very well have to read through my OP presentations many times to extract the seeds to be watered in subsequent readings down the road. However, even those more advanced students discovering the secrets of Paul’s “the Mystery” (Eph. 3:3) down the road can make great strides in assimilating those third tier aspects woven into the same Opening Posts.

Remember that God’s Hidden Wisdom is craftily woven into Scripture, so that Satan’s “son’s of disobedience” (Eph. 2:2) run right by without seeing anything. I am not insinuating at all that you or anyone here is numbered among them in making these statements. However, those among us unwilling to follow the sowing (faith), watering (knowledge = shoots and branches) and harvesting (wisdom = fruit = next generation of seeds) in this three tiered process will never in a million years come to understand even the most simple things from any of my posts. I (and Christ in me) am here to serve the members of Christ’s body truly willing to weigh all the information in these deliberations with their Bible’s open, as God chooses each individual member to come to and understand the secrets connected to His Hidden Wisdom.

Those among us simply reading and chatting for entertainment to pass the time will think Terral is out of his cotton picking mind [ : 0 ) ], because the things I write and illustrate for you are ‘abovetopsecret’ and ONLY for those illuminated by God’s Spirit to see them. The scoffers can marvel and perish (Acts 13:41), because God did not send me to become one of their “countless tutors” (1Cor. 4:15),

In Christ Jesus,

God bless you,

Terral

Hi Dbrandt:

Dbrandt >> You forgot one, John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

Your translation excludes the exclamation mark (!) behind Thomas’ statement giving glory to GOD for raising His Only Begotten Son from the dead. If Thomas stands before Lazarus, after Christ raised him from the dead, and shouts “My Lord And my God!,” THAT is not calling Lazarus God either. This is your attempt at finding ‘fool’s gold’ in John’s Gospel account to fashion your "molten calf" (Exodus 32:4+8) of IDOLATRY. There are NO contradictions in Scripture, but you are trying to take this verse out of context to say exactly the opposite of what the Gospel writer himself concludes in the following verses:

“Therefore many other signs Jesus also performed in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the SON OF GOD; and that believing you may have life in His name.” John 20:30+31.

The Gospel writer’s teaching aligns itself perfectly with the testimony of John the Baptist (John 1:34) and Peter (Matt. 16:16) from the very beginning. Anyone trying to say “Jesus is God” OBIOUSLY does NOT know “His God and Father” (Revelation 1:6). What does Jesus Christ say? Everyone should read along very slowly and carefully:

“Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and have come FROM GOD, for I have not even come on My own initiative, but He sent Me. Why do you not understand what I AM SAYING? It is because you CANNOT hear My word. You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and DOES NOT stand in “THE TRUTH” [John 5:33 = John 1:34] because there is NO truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own, for he is a liar and the father of lies. But because I speak the truth, you do not believe Me.” John 8:42-45.

My advice to you and every “Jesus is God” IDOLATER is you begin aligning your testimony about the “Only Begotten Son OF GOD” (John 3:18 = Christ’s own words also) with the witnesses of Scripture who all agree He is the “Son of God.” John 1:34. “His God and Father” is the “one God” (1Tim. 2:5) who raised Him FROM THE DEAD (Rom. 10:9, 1Cor. 15:3+4). Christ is our Intercessor (Rom. 8:34) and “one Mediator (1Tim. 2:5) at the “right hand OF GOD” (Col. 3:1-3). To destroy His God and Father and replace Him with the “Son of God” is nothing but a modern day version of IDOLATRY. What does Scripture say?

“If we receive the testimony of men [Dbrandt], the testimony of God is greater; for the testimony of God is this, that He has testified concerning His Son. The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one who DOES NOT BELIEVE GOD has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given concerning His Son. And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is IN HIS SON. He who has the Son has the life; he who does NOT have the SON OF GOD does NOT have the life. These things I have written to you who believe in the NAME of the SON OF GOD, so that you may know that you have eternal life.” 1John 5:9-13.

Can anyone here tell us the “NAME” of the Only Begotten Son OF GOD??? Are we to call His name “God” who sent the Son OR Jesus Christ who God sent?! What does the Son of God say?

“Jesus spoke these things; and lifting up His eyes to heaven, He said, "Father, the hour has come; glorify Your Son, that the Son may glorify You, even as You gave Him authority over all flesh, that to all whom You have given Him, He may give eternal life. This is eternal life, that they MAY KNOW YOU, the ONLY TRUE GOD, and JESUS CHRIST whom YOU have sent. I glorified You on the earth, having accomplished the work which YOU HAVE GIVEN ME TO DO. Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.” John 17:1-5.

Since Jesus Christ is standing on the earth addressing the “ONLY TRUE GOD” as “My God” and “My Father” (John 20:17), then OBVIOUSLY He is NOT His own God and Father. Say these words three times and believe them, Jesus Christ is the “Son of God.” Jesus Christ is the “Son of God.” Jesus Christ is the “Son of God.” John 1:34.

Dbrandt >> There is God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. All the same God in 3 distinct aspects.

No Dbrandt! There is no such thing as “God The Son” mentioned anywhere in your Bible. That is the contraption of the “dogma OF MEN.” Did John the Baptist say Jesus Christ is “God the Son?” No. Peter in Matt. 16:16? No. God in three distinct aspects is given us in Revelation 1:8, saying,

"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty." Revelation 1:8.

The three witnesses of “The Logos” (The Word) appear as the Father, Son and Holy Spirit in Matthew 28:19, because He is the IMAGE of the Invisible God (Col. 1:15). You are chanting the Roman Catholic mantra that does not distinguish “The Almighty” from His “Only Begotten Son.” GL seeing the differences,

In Christ Jesus,

Terral

Originally posted by dbrandt
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

It doesn't get any clearer than this.

Just some food for thought;
Notice, too, how other translations render this part of the verse:

1808: “and the word was a god.” The New Testament in an Improved Version, Upon the Basis of Archbishop Newcome’s New Translation: With a Corrected Text.

1864: “and a god was the word.” The Emphatic Diaglott, interlinear reading, by Benjamin Wilson.

1928: “and the Word was a divine being.” La Bible du Centenaire, L’Evangile selon Jean, by Maurice Goguel.

1935: “and the Word was divine.” The Bible—An American Translation, by J. M. P. Smith and E. J. Goodspeed.

1946: “and of a divine kind was the Word.” Das Neue Testament, by Ludwig Thimme.

1950: “and the Word was a god.” New World Translation of the Christian Greek Scriptures.

1958: “and the Word was a God.” The New Testament, by James L. Tomanek.

1975: “and a god (or, of a divine kind) was the Word.” Das Evangelium nach Johannes, by Siegfried Schulz.

1978: “and godlike kind was the Logos.” Das Evangelium nach Johannes, by Johannes Schneider.

Originally posted by Terral
Your translation excludes the exclamation mark (!) behind Thomas’ statement giving glory to GOD for raising His Only Begotten Son from the dead. This is your attempt at finding ‘fool’s gold’ in John’s Gospel account to fashion your "molten calf" (Exodus 32:4+8) of IDOLATRY. There are NO contradictions in Scripture, but you are trying to take this verse out of context to say exactly the opposite of what the Gospel writer himself concludes in the following verses:

No not taking anything out of context, just reading it for what it says. And there is a period not an exclamation point at the end of the sentence. Not looking for fool's gold either because I know i am saved and and have lived with Jesus for too long and been through too much in the last 13 years to not know the truth about what God says in the Bible.

Originally posted by Terral
You are wise to pay more careful attention.

Usually I do. But with you it is a waste of time and a fruitful endeavor.

AT ANY RATE, what I said, still stands.

When this was said, regarding John the Baptist and Yehoshua his cousin - they were both mortal men - born of women - who were in fact, cousins.

To be 'born' is to be delivered of. Which means the body from which the infant body comes from. Mary's birth canal was the passage of entry of Yehoshua into the world.

He WAS born of a woman.

Go ahead and explain how Christ was 'born of women,' AND how John the Baptist is greater than Him.

I just did. The second part - ask Yehoshua to explain - he said it. Do you not believe His words?

Good Luck, because Christ was 'conceived by the Holy Spirit' (Matt. 1:20).

Conception is one thing and birthing is another. Take a biology course, it might help.

He what?? Your statement here totally defies the heart and essence of our gospel, which says,

Check out what Paul says in Philippians 2:6-11: (I chose the ISV for it gives us a strange and poetic rendition that is unmatched in beauty

In God's own form existed he,
And shared with God equality,
Deemed nothing needed grasping.
Instead, poured out in emptiness,
A servant's form did he possess,
A mortal man becoming.
In human form he chose to be,
And lived in all humility,
Death on a cross obeying.
Now lifted up by God to heaven,
A name above all others given,
This matchless name possessing.
And so, when Jesus' name is called,
The knees of everyone should fall
Where'er they are residing.
Then every tongue in one accord,
Will say that Jesus Christ is Lord,
While God the Father praising.


God saved His Son!!! The author and finisher of our Faith was the first to taste salvation!!

Your understandings come from the vainglorious pride that is from below, not above.

You do not give glory to God - you in fact somehow demean His NAME and none of your so-called intelligence do you attribute to God but to your own efforts. You seek your own glory and not God's.

You speak a foreign gospel - confused and contradictory.

You also slander and berate those who would speak to you - your fruits are of strife and contention not peace and meekness.

You are not a teacher from God's school.

This I know.

Dbrandt, Queeny:

Dbrandt >> No not taking anything out of context, just reading it for what it says.

No sir. You are transliterating “The Word WAS God” into “Jesus is God” to prop up your “Deity of Jesus” NONSENSE. Jesus Christ is the “Son of God.” John 1:34. That is what the Bible says.

Dbrandt >> And there is a period not an exclamation point at the end of the sentence.

The Lockman Foundation scholars disagree:

“Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!" John 20:28. NASB.

Thomas is giving the glory TO GOD for raising “His Son” from the dead. You have no return reply, because I hit the nail on the head the first time.

Dbrandt >> Not looking for fool's gold either because I know i am saved and and have lived with Jesus for too long and been through too much in the last 13 years to not know the truth about what God says in the Bible.

Everyone baptized into the ‘mystery of iniquity’ (2Thes. 2:7) believes they serve God and your case is no exception. All of the ‘servants of righteousness’ (2Cor. 11:15) serving the “angel of light” (2Cor. 11:14) look up at him and say, “God!” They will all go to the grave believing “what is false” (2Thes. 2:11) and nothing anyone says here will change anything. Those part of the “mystery of iniquity” are just as eternally secure “IN” the antichrist, as the members of “Christ’s body” (1Cor. 12:27) are secure “IN” Christ Jesus (Eph. 2:6) with lives hidden with Him in God (Col. 3:1-3). Your ‘false’ doctrine teaches that “Jesus is God,” while totally ignoring the fact that the “Son of God” (Rev. 2:18) has “His God and Father” (Rev. 1:6). I know you cannot see the difference, so there is no use in belaboring the point . . .

Queenie >> When this was said, regarding John the Baptist and Yehoshua his cousin - they were both mortal men - born of women - who were in fact, cousins.

No Queenie. Man-0-man. What did Christ teach again?

"Truly I say to you, among those born of women there has NOT arisen anyone greater than John the Baptist! . . .”. Matthew 11:11.

Why do you continue to trip and fall over the truth of this single verse? Are you mentally replacing “John the Baptist!” with the words “Jesus Christ!”??? Are we to believe “of those born of women there has NOT arisen anyone greater than Jesus Christ,” just to allow your man-made dogma to make sense? Please . . . You go around breaking Scripture in practically every post and I cannot be the only member here taking note of that fact. Scripture says that Christ was “conceived of the HOLY SPIRIT.” Matt. 1:20. Scripture says that Christ was “found in appearance AS A MAN” (Phil. 2:8). That is what it means to be the “Son OF GOD.” John 1:34. The Jesus ‘you’ know is some guy walking around as a mere man; which is funny, because that is the opposite view taken by Dbrandt above. How do we know for certain that BOTH of their views are DEAD WRONG? Scripture teaches that Christ Jesus is the “one Mediator” BETWEEN God and men:

“For there is one God, and one Mediator ALSO between God AND men, the man Christ Jesus . . .”. 1Timothy 2:5.

This ‘man’ Christ Jesus is NOT a reference to any physical Jesus (we know NO LONGER = 2Cor. 5:16+17) walking around on the earth.



Christ Jesus is the “Heavenly Man” comprised of the Father (spirit), Son (blood) and Holy Spirit (water) and “the there are into the One” (1John 5:8). Jesus Christ on the earth is the ‘incarnation’ of “Christ Jesus” with the Father (John 14:10+11) and Holy Spirit (Luke 4:1) IN Him, which makes Him the “Son of Man,” i.e., a smaller micro-version of the larger “man Christ Jesus.” However, John the Baptist is the incarnation of the Heavens (spirit = Adam), Heaven (blood = soul) and Earth (water = body = Eve) rolled up into one “man sent from God” (John 1:6). Therefore, John the Baptist’s words are those of this Creation groaning in anticipation of glory (Rom. 8:20-22), while Christ’s words represent those of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit (intercessory blood realm) from beyond the “First Veil” standing between God (spirit) and men (water).

To proclaim Jesus is God (Dbrandt) transforms the there witnesses of “The Logos” (F+S+HS = Christ Jesus) into the “one God” position beyond the “Second Veil,” which is just another form of IDOLATRY. However, to proclaim that Jesus is a mere man (Queenie) is to remove Him from between the Two Veils and place Him among the sinners of this “Domain of Darkness.” Paul’s teaching in 1Timothy 2:5 positions the “one Mediator” between God and men, because the “Son OF GOD” is very much something BETWEEN God AND men; being NEITHER.

Those among you following Dbrandt (Jesus = God) OR Queenie (Jesus = mere man) can become their worthy disciples, as I have far too many fish to fry to come behind and correct the myriad of errors in their collective testimony. They have both been warned sufficiently and my hands are clean.

GL in the debates,

In Christ Jesus,

Terral

Terral ~

FIRST of all - I never said Yehoshua was a 'mere' man but I did say 'mortal.'
SECOND of all - You assume that this is as important to me as it is to you - I seek NOT to force my ideas down your throat - I ask for clarification and I wish I had never even considered that I might get a reasonable answer. (this is how we, I mean I, learn)
THIRDLY:

And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ. ~Matthew 1:16

But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, ~Galatians 4:4

Born of a woman, made of a woman, under the law!!! Plain and simple, right there in easy to read words.

WHATEVER the outcome of the point of disagreement - you can not take a verse that fits your ideas and throw the rest out. Maybe they don't jibe. If so - then surely we are ALL understanding in error or incompletely.

Don't force your will upon the words.

Originally posted by queenannie38
Terral ~

FIRST of all - I never said Yehoshua was a 'mere' man but I did say 'mortal.'
SECOND of all - You assume that this is as important to me as it is to you - I seek NOT to force my ideas down your throat - I ask for clarification and I wish I had never even considered that I might get a reasonable answer.

(this is how we, I mean I, learn)
THIRDLY:

Annie,while I certainly agree with Terral on this subject, I think he has proven to be quite unreasonable by the "rapture" thread that I posted. According to Terral,at least this is as it seems to me, he is right and everyone else is wrong. There really is no need to argue with him.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
There really is no need to argue with him.

Well, when you put it that way, your wisdom is quite shiny.

I imagine with Terral it is more often the case than not.

I will just have to remember to either
A. not read his posts
or
B. not worry about seeking clarification (for the sake of anyone - myself, Terral, or the reader)

I hope I can remember this.

Peace!

Hi Speaker, Annie:

Speaker >> Annie, while I certainly agree with Terral on this subject, I think he has proven to be quite unreasonable by the "rapture" thread that I posted. According to Terral, at least this is as it seems to me, he is right and everyone else is wrong. There really is no need to argue with him.

Debate is about the presentation of opposing views. You guys need to check your English dictionaries on that one. I will continue to present ‘my’ views on these topics and you are encouraged to present yours. However, do not believe for one second that Terral is going to buy your NONSENSE. The things I present in these threads are for the benefit of the third party judges to these deliberations finding their way through all the mere ‘opinions’ and dogma of men. You should be writing to help your readers understand why your explanations of Scripture are far superior to mine without regard to convincing Terral of anything. The chances are that we will agree on some topics and disagree on others. Just give it your best shot and allow the cookies to crumble accordingly. GL in the debates,

In Christ Jesus,

Terral


[edit on 10-10-2006 by Terral]

Originally posted by Terral
Debate is about the presentation of opposing views. You guys need to check your English dictionaries on that one. I will continue to present ‘my’ views on these topics and you are encouraged to present yours. However, do not believe for one second that Terral is going to buy your NONSENSE. The things I present in these threads are for the benefit of the third party judges to these deliberations finding their way through all the mere ‘opinions’ and dogma of men. You should be writing to help your readers understand why your explanations of Scripture are far superior to mine without regard to convincing Terral of anything. The chances are that we will agree on some topics and disagree on others. Just give it your best shot and allow the cookies to crumble accordingly. GL in the debates,

In Christ Jesus,

Terral


[edit on 10-10-2006 by Terral]

One thing I will say about you,Terral, is that you do present your case well and you are a good "sport" about things. I do applaud you for that much. I mean, I don't think that you have intentionally degraded anything that I have said, regardless of how I may have taken it. You just see things a whole lot differently than Ann and I do. However,I certainly do agree with you on the subject of Jesus being the Son rather than God in the flesh.

[edit on 10-10-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

Originally posted by queenannie38
Your understandings come from the vainglorious pride that is from below, not above. You do not give glory to God - You speak a foreign gospel - confused and contradictory. You also slander and berate those who would speak to you - your fruits are of strife and contention not peace and meekness. You are not a teacher from God's school.

Queenannie .. if I had any applause left for this month i'd definately give you a WATS. Your decernment is very clear on this and the Holy Spirit is definately leading and PROTECTING you. Thanks be to God!

The Devil is the father of lies. The Enemy takes glory away from God and gives it to himself and his servant minions on earth. Satan preaches a foreign gospel. Beware of false prophets in the end days ...

Originally posted by Terral
However, do not believe for one second that Terral is going to buy your NONSENSE. ... .... without regard to convincing Terral of anything.

1 - Terral ... learn how to use pronouns and stop referring to yourself as 'Terral'. It's strange and its downright creepy. Kinda sounds like you are possessed and an evil spirit/third party is speaking through your mouth. (which might explain a few things)

2 - People who are attempting to put up with you and carry on in this discussion aren't talking 'nonsense'. Actually, the crap that YOU are spewing qualifies as nonsense to many here so you might want to refrain from throwing rocks at others here ... glass houses Terral .. glass houses!

3. Your attitude is NOT Christian. Not at all. The Holy Spirit is definately NOT guiding you in any way. Your soul is in danger and you are turning people off that may have been on the path to God. That is the work of the devil. Nothing less.


[edit on 10/10/2006 by FlyersFan]

Annie:

Annie >> FIRST of all - I never said Yehoshua was a 'mere' man but I did say 'mortal.[snip]'

Mortal = mere man. Jesus Christ is the “Son OF GOD.” John 1:34. You do NOT know the difference.

Annie’s Verses >> And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ. ~Matthew 1:16

But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, ~Galatians 4:4

Annie’s Commentary >> Born of a woman, made of a woman, under the law!!! Plain and simple, right there in easy to read words.

Thank you for allowing me this opportunity to make clarifying statements. Jesus Christ was “found in appearance AS A MAN” (Phil. 2:8), as God did indeed use the ‘womb’ of the woman. However, the “Son OF GOD” (Luke 1:35) was still “conceived of the Holy Spirit” (Matt. 1:20). While John the Baptist is said to be “born of women” (gennetos #1084 gune #1135), Christ confirms that of those born that way “there has NOT arisen anyone greater than John the Baptist.” Matt. 11:11. My debating opponent is trying to Mickey Mouse her way around this truth, but Galatians 4:4 will not allow her any such satisfaction. Scripture says,

“But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, made (ginomai #1096 = www.blueletterbible.org... ) of a woman, born under the Law . . .”. Gal. 4:4.

This is the same term God uses in John 1 to say,

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being* through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being . . . And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the Only Begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.” John 1:1-3+14.

I am sorry. Did that say “. . . we saw His glory, glory as the Only Begotten from Mary.”?? No. Jesus Christ was conceived by the Holy Spirit in the womb of the woman in the same way God called all things into being through His Word. Did God require the womb of a woman to bring all things into being? No. However, He did use the womb of the womb and her relationship with Joseph to fulfill OT prophesies concerning the coming of the Messiah. Scripture describes the process of how the Son of God was formed in her womb, saying,

“The angel answered and said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High [The Father] will overshadow you; and for THAT reason the holy Child shall be called the Son OF GOD.” Luke 1:35.

Let’s look at this another way: Did the Lord God require the womb of a woman to bring the first Adam into existence? No. The Lord God formed him with His own hands in Genesis 2:7 with the woman (water) and seed (blood) still ‘IN’ him. The woman and her seed (Gen. 3:15) were taken out in Genesis 2:20-22. No other person was called into being by unnatural intervention by God Himself, until the ‘Last Adam’ (1Cor. 15:45) entered the scene as our Lord Jesus Christ and a ‘life-giving spirit.’ However, even all this being true, Paul reminds us that we know Christ this way NO LONGER.

“Therefore from now on we recognize no one according to the flesh; even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him in this way NO LONGER. Therefore if anyone is IN Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.” 2Corinthians 5:16+17.

How are we to be found “IN” Christ Jesus, if he is a mere man taught by Annie? She runs to Galatians 4:4 to prove Christ is “mortal,” which flies in the face of Paul’s teaching that all things in this universe are held together “IN” Him.

“He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities – all things have been created through Him and for Him. He is before all things, and IN Him all things hold together.” Col. 1:15-17.

We can agree that the Word (Christ = F+S+HS in ONE Man) was indeed made flesh (John 1:14), but not by the will or agency of Joseph or Mary. Since Christ ‘knew NO sin’ (2Cor. 5:21), then He inherited none of Adam’s Original sin from Mary or Joseph.

Annie >> WHATEVER the outcome of the point of disagreement - you can not take a verse that fits your ideas and throw the rest out. Maybe they don't jibe. If so - then surely we are ALL understanding in error or incompletely.

Heh . . . In other words, you anticipate that I have seen all of this before. It would be shocking if either of you threw something in this direction I had not seen at least a dozen times.

Annie >> Don't force your will upon the words.

How about if we both simply give our commentary on the verses in question and allow the readers to judge us both! Jesus Christ is the Only Begotten Son OF GOD. John 3:18. GL in the debate,

In Christ Jesus,

Terral

Originally posted by Terral
How about if we both simply give our commentary on the verses in question and allow the readers to judge us both!

Sure. No problem. Here ya' go - but it's DECERNMENT .. not judgement.

Queenannie is right on the money. The spirit guiding you is not holy and is not good. Serious self examination and HUMILITY are needed by you Terral. Your soul is in danger and you are attempting to drag others away from what is good and holy.

Considering how 'off' your spirit is, then all your commentaries and interpretations are at the very least highly suspect; and most likely totally backwards from what they should be.

Hey .. you asked. There ya' go.

Flyer:

Flyer >> Sure. No problem. Here ya' go - but it's DECERNMENT .. not judgement. Queenannie is right on the money. The spirit guiding you is not holy and is not good. Serious self examination and HUMILITY are needed by you Terral. Your soul is in danger and you are attempting to drag others away from what is good and holy.

Please carefully consider “The Topic” of the debate, before hitting the reply button on your “Dear Terral” Love letters. Did you address one thing on the “Deity of Christ” topic? No. I am amazed you have so much fun playing the fool for our readers. Please put down the stones and say something on the Topic. TY.

However, stone chuckes really have no credibility with anyone and you are not here to write on the Topic. Right? I would love to 'quote you >>' on this Topic, if you ever get around to actually saying anything. GL in the debate, if you ever decide to join in.

In Christ Jesus,

Terral

Originally posted by Terral
Did you address one thing on the “Deity of Christ” topic? No.

You are right. I didn't. I answered YOUR POST -

Originally posted by Terral
How about if we both simply give our commentary on the verses in question and allow the readers to judge us both!

YOU asked for judgement. YOU got judgement (decernment actually).
Next time .. don't ask if you can't handle the truth.

Originally posted by Terral
They Say A Fool Is Born Every Sixty Seconds . . .

Why strive over 'who' if the words of 'who' are counted for naught as far as reverence or obedience? :shk: