Holier-Than-Thou Dad/Daughter Duo Seek to Ban Fahrenheit 451

One of my favorite books of all time...

And I grew up in the South. Yes, there are a lot of well meaning (yet simpleminded) people here who still actively encourage the banning of books for moral and religious purposes.

Sadly - (and this is from experience ) - most of the teenagers I went to school with created a fuss over material they didn't want to read and used their religion as a way of getting out of completing the course requirements.

It's slow here in the South, and people aren't nessecarily on the same page as other areas in the U.S. - not to mention the Global arena.

Sadly - she sounds to me as if she's planning on marrying the first guy she meets, having kids, and raising them the same way. That seems to be the way of many young women here in the South - they're expected to be church going wives and mothers, and not critical thinkers.

I was attacked throughout high school for being an intellectual female with a constant on hand copy of Brave New World. I'm just fortunate we had Advanced Placement classes to get me out of the general riff-raff at the lower end of the social spectrum.

And by even mentioning the banning of a book, the stronger willed students will be more likely to pick up said title, so maybe there's something else going on here...something positive.

*fingers crossed*

[edit on 9-10-2006 by GENERAL EYES]

I got a good idea. A movement to ban banners. Why should we put up with arrogent ignorant nutjobs who think they're right and everyone else is wrong (which in it's self ain't bad) and then try and force their beliefs down everyone elses throats. (thats bad).

We could put them in a land based rail gun and then shoot them into deep space.

We should at least have some methode of dealing with these interlopers of humanity who seek to destroy just so that they can rebuild in their own crazy image.

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
I don't have any problem with them determining for themselves what is acceptable, but they must not be allowed to set the standard for the rest of us.

So, you want to set the standard for the rest of us then? Oh, it's ok to say and read foul language? When you are not use to it, even some of the common swear words are offensive that everyone else loves to say.

Do I live in a bubble? No. Do I hear others talk that way in front of me? Yes. Do I ask them not to use that language? Yes. Most quit. Others I walk away. If it was my boss, I'd walk away from him/her also. There is no reason to use that type of language. Actually I think those who do use it are deranged.

The worst part of it, is that I notice when someone who does not normally swear gets around people who do. Those words rub off on them. I don't know how many times I gave my signifacent other an ear full coming home after work and using those words around our kids. My other doesn't work there any longer. Guess what? The offensive language is gone from the vocabulary. Well, maybe excpet a small very common swear word here and there when hurt.

Personally I think others who swear are rude, igornant, do it to get a rise out of others, and basically hate life in general.

Why should anyone tell that father that his daughter has to read a book with foul language in it even if it is a f word or a sob comment that you might think so what? Well, it is a so what to him.

He has the right to raise his daughter with the morals he sees fit. What right do you or anyone else have to take that away from him?



[edit on 10-10-2006 by Mystery_Lady]

[edit on 10-10-2006 by Mystery_Lady]

I know this sounds very juvenile and de-evolutionary, but would'nt nuking the "Bible Belt" of the USA get rid of the sheer stupidity of those people? It's those people who are a colossal embarassment to mankind just because they think the Bible is their education.
If they cannot handle the freedom for students to learn from the novels to adhere constructive thinking and free will, they need to be deported from the USA or executed.

Period.

Spit or walk on the Constitution of the USA, they're no longer an American.

Even better, let's send them all the "Bible Belters" straight to Iraq and do the fighting for us and let's see if they last 3 seconds against the Muslims or any kind of 'insurgents'.

Non-violent? No problem..let's ship them straight to the Vatican and ban them from returning to our country.

EDIT: btw, I've read Fahrenheit 451 in high school and deem it a very important book. A true classic and those who've never read it and complain about its language is the biggest moron in the world and has no appreciation for literature.
They're the very reason Bush got re-elected....no wonder a billion 'Dumbos' voted for...."Dumbo".

[edit on 10-10-2006 by Sanctum1972]

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
I don't see a word about banning the book, only removing it from the curriculum. No one would be prohibited from reading the book.

Same thing. The book provides an important lesson, form an important author, at an important time for such lessons.

Which is why I think this is a stunt.

Isn't this "banned books week?" First week of October or last week of September comes to mind. What a great publicity stunt to have someone with a dullard-sounding name, make a stink about banning the book that is about banning books.

The timing seems to fit nicely.


Keep religion out of cirriculum decisions and leave it up to the parents and religious teachers to discuss important questions that might come up because of topics covered in school. Schools should be responsible for the mind, not the soul.

on the other hand, you got a point there...I almost forgot about the fact this was Banned Books Month. It's probably a stunt they were paid to do but then...are they really that religious they claimed to be?

if she actualy read it she would realise shes becoming part of the
problem by trying to opened mined books outa schools where
young ones should be ablle to learn from all points of view

I could add a bunch of bad launguage but i don't want anyone offended::smirk::

I believe that the School Districts should enact a plan to deal with these kinds of activities by the intellectually challenged. In order to twart the non compus mentus true believers in our world they should be required to have the backing of an accredited scholar who can literate a serious challenge to the School Library which would then be given due consideration. If they are unable to mount such a challenge they should be required to stand in front of the scholastic institution, wearing pilgrim clothing and holding signs declaring themselves as being in favor of ignorance.

OOPS! I should have seen it sooner ... texAss ... the G.W.Bush state of "ignance be bliss".

So, you want to set the standard for the rest of us then?

Based on what I've written so far, how could you possibly think that?

Oh, it's ok to say and read foul language?

See, I don't believe there is such a thing as foul language. Words are tools, they're amoral, they simply convey ideas. Foul ideas are ideas nonetheless, and whether or not they're foul is a matter of taste, not fact.

When you are not use to it, even some of the common swear words are offensive that everyone else loves to say.

Sorry, I don't believe you or anyone else has the right to live without being offended. I believe the freedom of expression we all share is more important. If we curtailed our words to insure against offending even the most thin-skinned, our society would be as stagnant, shallow and boring as a puddle in a ditch.

Do I live in a bubble? No. Do I hear others talk that way in front of me? Yes. Do I ask them not to use that language? Yes. Most quit. Others I walk away. If it was my boss, I'd walk away from him/her also. There is no reason to use that type of language. Actually I think those who do use it are deranged.

You haven't read the book either, have you? Bradbury is FAMOUS for avoiding common curse words, he doesn't rely on them at all.

Deranged? That's your perogative, I suppose, to think that, but it doesn't have any basis in fact - of that I'm fairly sure.

The worst part of it, is that I notice when someone who does not normally swear gets around people who do. Those words rub off on them. I don't know how many times I gave my signifacent other an ear full coming home after work and using those words around our kids. My other doesn't work there any longer. Guess what? The offensive language is gone from the vocabulary. Well, maybe excpet a small very common swear word here and there when hurt.

Of course those words rub off on them! We're social creatures, we mimic the actions and even the thoughts of the people we socialize with. It's an evolutionary mechanism, not the work of the devil for cryin' out loud!

Why don't you like those words?

Because you were indoctrinated into a mindset that you feel justified in foisting onto others.

No sympathy from me when others resist your attempt at programming.

Personally I think others who swear are rude, igornant, do it to get a rise out of others, and basically hate life in general.

That is your perogative, to pass judgement on others.

Why should anyone tell that father that his daughter has to read a book with foul language in it even if it is a f word or a sob comment that you might think so what? Well, it is a so what to him.

Nobody is telling them they have to read the book. What I'm saying is that a lone nutter should never be given the power to set community standards! Why is that so hard to understand?

Do you want me setting the standard for you? I doubt it...

He has the right to raise his daughter with the morals he sees fit. What right do you or anyone else have to take that away from him?

I said the exact same thing, earlier in this thread.

Originally posted by Sanctum1972
I know this sounds very juvenile and de-evolutionary, but would'nt nuking the "Bible Belt" of the USA get rid of the sheer stupidity of those people? It's those people who are a colossal embarassment to mankind just because they think the Bible is their education.
If they cannot handle the freedom for students to learn from the novels to adhere constructive thinking and free will, they need to be deported from the USA or executed.

I live in the NorthEast, and frankly there's stupidity here, too... just a different strain. I haven't quite figured out how education and critical thinking doesn't work with religion -- and really, that seems to be the case. I'm in a World Religions philosophy course, and there are several 'hard-core' religious people present -- but they are capable of setting aside their ideas/beliefs to learn something new. And after the class is done, they are just as capable of setting aside what they've learned and taking up the old torch again. However, the fact that they are able to step outside of their world view and objectively learn about someone else's... *that* is, I think, important.

Likewise, I don't remember a whole lot of 'constructive thinking' in high school... a dabble here and there, but overall none. Mostly memorize this, puke it up on the test next week, remember it because it'll (probably) come in handy someday (which, by the way, most of it has not).

But isn't that also part of the problem? If she, or any other child in today's education system, was never taught critical/constructive thinking -- how can we expect her to employ it?

Originally posted by Mystery_Lady
Oh, it's ok to say and read foul language? When you are not use to it, even some of the common swear words are offensive that everyone else loves to say.

You know what offends me? Incorrect grammer.

Do I live in a bubble? No. Do I hear others talk that way in front of me? Yes. Do I ask them not to use that language? Yes. Most quit. Others I walk away. If it was my boss, I'd walk away from him/her also. There is no reason to use that type of language. Actually I think those who do use it are deranged. .... Personally I think others who swear are rude, igornant, do it to get a rise out of others, and basically hate life in general.

a) You have yet to give an actual reason as to why I, or anyone else, shouldn't use 'foul' language. (I read your post several times, and was unable to distill one actual reason.)

b) You're arguing that people shouldn't judge this man and his daughter for their reading choices. Fine. Meanwhile, you, yourself, as passing out judgments on other people like tacky neon flyers. ...think about it.

c) I, myself, use curse words (of which I am referring to sh** and f***; beyond that, the words are subjectively chosen, as they have several different meanings, some of which have no negative connotation at all, and can only be determined as 'curse words' by the surrounding derogatory context). Are there different, multi-syllabic words to use instead of curse words? Yes. And depending on the situation, my choices in words vary.
However, it is unfair (not to mention immoral) to judge a person's overall character or disposition ('hating life in general') on one moment's word-choice. The Virtue of one's character is seen throughout one's lifetime.. To pass a concrete judgement on this or that moment's choice does not allow a person to change, nor does it allow you to see and note that change in the person's character. So everyone is getting shorted.

Since morals and critical thinking are not an integral part of our education system (and in college it seems to be a choice), I use the lack of it as a tool of learning. I learned a lot about how to act and how not to act by observing other people. But, then again, maybe that's a function of critical thinking... I'm not sure.

Why should anyone tell that father that his daughter has to read a book with foul language in it even if it is a f word or a sob comment that you might think so what? Well, it is a so what to him.

In regards to this particular book -- While I have not read the book recently, *thee worst* word that I've ever seen Bradbury write is h-e-double-hockey-sticks (of which I'm not even certain is a curse word). He does not use foul language. So the fact that *that* is the 'reason' sited... proves the ignorance.

In regards to his right to choose -- As it's been said by many people, he has the right to choose what his daughter reads. However, he does not have the right to choose for everyone else. Not to (re-) mention the obvious fact that he's never read the book, and has provided no sound reason as to why his daughter should not read it.
Like I said, there is no foul language in Bradbury's writing. So... his argument is invalid, and his ignorance is showing.

(edited to add: General Eyes -- your avatar cracks me up! )

[edit on 11-10-2006 by Diseria]

I still say we round em up and launch them into the sun. We can claim crimes against humanity. Which I feel people who seek to impose their arrogant ignorant ways against the rest of us are in fact commiting. THey are standing in the way of human development on an individual level, and against species development and betterment on a macro level. It traitorus to do so in my opinion and I think they should go join the Reptoids or whatever since they both have the same agenda even if unwittingly. Heck they may even be pawns of thereptoids doing their evil bidding. People who want to ban literature are evil.

Originally posted by Mystery_Lady
There is no reason to use that type of language. Actually I think those who do use it are deranged.

"Think with the Learned, Speak with the Profane."
paraphrased.....

Deranged........so you say that the issue is black and white?

I live in the gray/grey matter......look past the expression and to the concept.....even the ignorant hit a concept correctly, from time to time.....to the point where I have found myself ignorant(look it up), at times....

Maybe you want to cease being aghast? Then we(as in this thread) can talk.......

Still say launch 'em into the sun. Along with their Reptoid masters.

Good find, WyrdeOne. A similar situation is occuring here, where I live, concerning the Harry Potter books. A woman is seeking to ban all Harry Potter from schools and from libraries. Her belief is that the book invites the youth reader into the wiccan theology. I have no doubt that the woman is making a judgement based on what she's heard about the books from other like minded people, rather than reading the book for herself. She also states that the Harry Potter books promotes an atomosphere where school shootings would occur.

Notice in the first article, it also talks about a true to life ban that occured here regarding books written in Spanish. The reasoning behind the ban was, as the article states:

"In June, the county's library board eliminated the $3,000 that had been set aside to buy Spanish-language fiction in the coming fiscal year. One board member said the move came after some residents objected to using taxpayer dollars to entertain readers who might be illegal immigrants."

Here are articles relating to the story:

Georgia Mom seeks ban on Harry Potter Books

Harry Potter Challenger Appeals to Georgia State Board


Georgia mom thinks Harry Potter fosters culture leading to school shootings

[edit on 13-10-2006 by DJMessiah]

HArry Potter promotes school shootings. You know what? just cause she said something so baseless and stupid, well screw it so will I. I believe christianity makes people blood thirsty killers cause it focuses on drinking wine and pretending it's some dudes blood. CHristianity promotes vampirism. There I said it.

She wants Harry Potter banned becuase it promotes Wiccan philosophy? I say just to teach her a lesson that every other adult in this world can figure out by themselves we should ban anything that may potentially introduce people to christianity. Who the hell is she to presume to know what religion is right or wrong? She should keep her arrogant and stupid ideas to herself.

Launch her into the sun too!!!!!!!!Along with the reptoids. Reptoids... I hate Reptoids.

I am always shocked when I see a call for book banning. If you don't think that your child should read a particular book, I can understand that.

What I don't understand is people that want to restrict all people from having the oppertunity to read a book.

I read that book and many others while in high school that would be considered far worse. I remember my dad getting upset because I was reading Green Beret (about the war in Viet Nam) It had some sex scenes in it that my dad didn't want me to read. Bess his little heart.

By the time that he took interest, I'd finished the book. I was a pretty fast reader. I also didn't have the heart to tell him that many of the books that I read had far more sex in it then that one book.

In the book, the people who burned books were firemen. Perhaps this duo, in reality just want to be fireman.

I say make them stand up for their own stupidy. Make them justify all the books that they want to burn and the reason why.

I agree totally with what the last post just said

How much more of an arguement for reading Fahrenheit 451 than these idiots trying to ban it.

They say that they don't like it because it has bad language in it? I mean, they are trying to say that they actually read Fahrenheit 451, and want to ban it?

Holy Cow, someone needs to go back to reading comprehension class.

Originally posted by BASSPLYR
HArry Potter promotes school shootings. You know what? just cause she said something so baseless and stupid, well screw it so will I.

My university is doing a study on this woman's behavior. We tend to focus on why people make such statements (is it due to her upbringing, background, or religious views). No one in my courses takes what the lady says as serious, which is why we tend to laugh anytime my proffessor brings her up.