BSA/Cub Scouts...Hit them while they're young

Originally posted by thelibra
What was the other organization besides Boy Scouts?

The girlscouts, I actually read too quickly and though you were saying the problem with gays in the boyscouts is the same as having straight men in the girl scouts.

They now go by "Venture Scouts", and include both men and women, and presumably could thus care less about sexual preference.

Indeed, but you can imagine that there is a good deal of sexual tension in these groups of 18-20 year olds romping around in the woods. Hell, if I joined when I was that age, I'd certainly hope there was anyway!

I spent nearly 20,000 characters worth of time and effort to explain that the Scouts does not in fact think homosexuality and atheism is "wrong".

The organization doesn't permit gay men from being scout leaders, because they beleive that homosexuality is wrong. A homosexual man isn't anymore a pedophile than a straight man, so there's no 'hanky panky' issue. They simply see homosexuality as non-virtue. I can understand eliminating atheists, becuase religion is part of the lesson, that doesn't require saying that atheism is immoral, but I don't see how the homosexuality exclusion really works out to anything other than that. I can see keeping gay boys out of the scouts, to a degree, in order to avoid putting possible sex partners in the same tent, but the adult men?

No, it's not. God and Country get mentioned a lot, but it's not what BSA is about. It's about communication, survival, training, and learning to be basically a reliable person in time of need.

Scouting is about a lot more than getting your tote'n'chip and learning how to properly build a fire ring. Baden Powell wanted an organization that could teach goys to become good men. Learnign to use a compass is merely the format for the organization, not the ultimate goal.

Have you ever been a scout, Nygdan? I'm guessing either the answer is "No", or that you were in a truly awful troop.

My troop was infact a very good troop. Our town has a part of its town civic center set aside for the scouts, it doesn't occur in a church, and indeed never met in a church, the pastors and preists in our town weren't adult members and didn't even speak to us. But the core of the lessons was still about god and country. The scout's manual doesn't have religious diatribes in it, but the merit badges and ranks and indeed the entire idea of service is all based on a religious, though religiously inclusive, message.

but those are on the individual troop level, and not the organization as a whole. It's a frickin' international organization, for crying out loud.

Yes, and its the governing body that has decided that gays and atheists aren't permited, individual troops, I am sure, ignore those directives (but of course that is at their own peril). What is being questioned here is the governing body's decision.

You've all given great information but it doesn't stop the fact that I can't be a den leader and have my son participate, which under the circumstances I don't want him to. They can do as they wish because it's their organization but to a degree it should be considered wrong on both parts. I always thought it was for the children not for the point. I don't think that children need to be taught that you must believe in god to be a good person. Thats not what makes a good person.

My only issue with the BSAs discrimination is the fact that every four years tax-payers money is used to have theyre jamberee.

That means atleast every four years, I'm paying a discriminatory organizaton against my will.

Originally posted by WolfofWar
I'm paying a discriminatory organizaton against my will.

I'm paying a discriminatory organizaton against my will

They, along with the girl scouts, already discriminate based on sex. Besides, the military doesn't allow gays in its ranks, and we pay for them everyday. The scouts getting money for the jamboree is nearly unnoticeable. Personally, I don't think either should receive public funds becuase they are discriminating.

I see you
but it doesn't stop the fact that I can't be a den leader and have my son participate, which under the circumstances I don't want him to.

So everythings jolly well good no? You won't participate in an organization that you don't like, and they won't let you.

I always thought it was for the children not for the point.

And the BSA says that they can't teach their lessons or fufil their purpose with homosexuals and atheists involved.

I don't think that children need to be taught that you must believe in god to be a good person.

The scouts teaches them how to be good by using, to a good degree, faith. THey're not necessarily saying 'atheists are evil', they are saying 'we teach through faith, therefore, we can't accept atheists, because there'd be nothing to do with them".

If you have this much of a problem with authoritative rules or organizational 'think', then you definitly don't want to join the boy scouts or have your kids in it.

All right. I just emailed the Longhorn Council of the BSA to get an official stance on the issue specifically relating to the admission of homosexuals and atheists into the BSA or any of the other scouting organizations. Assuming they respond, this should settle the question once and for all as to whether or not they actively exclude them, or just prefer those who aren't. There is a huge difference.

However, until I receive back an email with clarification, here is the Position Statement on Diversity from the Official Scouting Page

In Support of Diversity

More than 90 years ago, the Boy Scouts of America (BSA) was founded on the premise of teaching boys moral and ethical values through an outdoor program that challenges them and teaches them respect for nature, one another, and themselves. Scouting has always represented the best in community, leadership, and service.

The Boy Scouts of America has selected its leaders using the highest standards because strong leaders and positive role models are so important to the healthy development of youth. Today, the organization still stands firm that their leaders exemplify the values outlined in the Scout Oath and Law.

On June 28, 2000, the United States Supreme Court reaffirmed the Boy Scouts of America's standing as a private organization with the right to set its own membership and leadership standards.

The BSA respects the rights of people and groups who hold values that differ from those encompassed in the Scout Oath and Law, and the BSA makes no effort to deny the rights of those whose views differ to hold their attitudes or opinions.

Scouts come from all walks of life and are exposed to diversity in Scouting that they may not otherwise experience. The Boy Scouts of America aims to allow youth to live and learn as children and enjoy Scouting without immersing them in the politics of the day.

We hope that our supporters will continue to value the Boy Scouts of America's respect for diversity and the positive impact Scouting has on young people's lives. We realize that not every individual nor organization subscribes to the same beliefs that the BSA does, but we hope that all Americans can be as respectful of our beliefs as we are of theirs and support the overall good Scouting does in American communities.

Granted, this isn't exactly a crystal clear statement on what exactly their admission standards are, but gives, I feel, a very accurate account of their attitudes and treatment towards other people. It is not a bigoted organization.


[edit on 10/6/2006 by thelibra]

Libra,

I would just like to say excellent posting and an obvious salute to your Eaglehood.

I also agree with your statement that most Cubs don't go on to Eagle. I was an arrow of light cub and went on to BSA for about 2 years. I quit shortly before receiving 1st Class. I often regret leaving and cherish the lessons I did learn, particularily in outdoorsmanship and survival. I was in a very tough troop camping wise (our survival campout was the real deal, when a storm came through droping wind chill temps to -60 F). In fact you could only attain Eagle the month of your 18th Birthday in this troop. I left for a myriad of reasons, and despite some regret concole myself with the fact that I went on to join the Civil Air Patrol Cadet Program and earned the Gen Billy Mitchell award which is considered by the US Armed Forces as equivalent to Eagle Scout. (Incedently in CAP, the Spaatz Award would be more equivalent to Eagle Scout. I missed just two requirements obtaining the Spaatz, I tried to get them in but aged out before I could complete all. Less then 15% of cadets get the Mitchell and only .05% the Spaatz).

Anyways, good post on scouting.

I would also like to 2nd your points to those reading. While I am a Christian and generally support the BSA's policies, non of the troops I have been in or know of are overtly relgious or sectarian to any one type of beleif. Scouting is world wide and represents many faiths.

I would also like to reinterate to all (especailly the OP), that Libra is right about the Education from scouting that he listed earlier.

Each merit badge truly IS about a semseters worth of material. And being and Eagle Scout (or in my case a Mitchell reciepent) does open doors. Kids in Boy Scouts (or other similar groups) are generally much more grounded and well rounded then their piers.

I would not let this percieved statements on religion sour you on checking out a few troops. Your child would be missing out on a lot.

[edit on 8-10-2006 by Sr Wing Commander]