Iranians frightened of consequences..

www.sanluisobispo.com...

It seems the Iranian civilians are the ones who think they will suffer because of the actions of their own government. The sanctions are likely to make the economic situation of Iran's people even worse than it is now.

My question is are we punishing the wrong people? how can we justify imposing sanctions on a people who feel oppresed by their own government and powerless to change that.

Should we seek a more direct line of action against the Iranian government? perhaps use the Air Force to destroy government facillities and infrastructure and the nuclear power plants?

at least damage to their government is better than killing the commoner with backbreaking economic policies.

I wouldn't count out the Iranian youth as "powerless." We have all seen and felt the power of the enflamed rage of the young. To a lot of them, the more Western their country becomes the better off they will be in the long run. The Supreme Leader needs to be deposed for this to happen, and that will be a difficult task.

I tend to agree that the youth of his country seem to be against the nationalistic view of their leader. perhaps the youth know the world is changing and nationalism wont work in a country the size of Iran. Not unless they want to live like the cubans anyway.

I feel sort of sorry for the Iranians for what all they have to go through. First it was facists oppresion against their own citizens by the government, a police state. WHICH was indeed supported by the USA. And then they lost their idol, the one everyone loved who ended their awful oppresion and gave them an Islamic state. By the way, I forget what his name was, I know it had Iotala or however you spell it in it.

You guys shouldnt hate Iran especially their people. They have a right to hate America and I think its mostly because we supported the oppresive police state they had DURING THE COLD WAR! They also have a right to not trust the Americans because they probably think we are liers because DURING THE COLD WAR, we were against the Soviet Union who had a police state but we were supporting one at the same time too.

[edit on 9-9-2006 by wildcat]

[edit on 9-9-2006 by wildcat]

Originally posted by XphilesPhan
I tend to agree that the youth of his country seem to be against the nationalistic view of their leader. perhaps the youth know the world is changing and nationalism wont work in a country the size of Iran. Not unless they want to live like the cubans anyway.

No it wont, I think Islamic State works the best for them.

[edit on 9-9-2006 by wildcat]

Originally posted by wildcat
I forget what his name was, I know it had Iotala or however you spell it in it.

It was the Shah of Iran and the Ayatollah, I agree with your post, but many have no idea as the whole issue behind Iran, the government and the population.

Oh yeah now I remember the names.

I dont like it when narrowminds take sides on global issues before they even looked to see whats really going on. But isnt thats what the world is full of? Narrowminds, thats why verichip and the new world order is at our doorsteps with domination and no one is going to stop it.

[edit on 9-9-2006 by wildcat]

I think Iranians should be scared...and it just isn't fair to them.

I believe there are different kinds of people in Iran...some who like the west [mainly US] for what a relationship with them[the US] can do for them and others who are against the west, because of this reason or that.

Too much speculation is going around.

The question is: When will Israel strike Iran's nuclear facilities? Israel already said they won't allow Iran to have nuclear weapons, and Iran keeps enriching with the UN piddle F'ing around.

Will the regime be desposed of? Will Iran be another Iraq? Is that the plan?

Who knows...you and I certainly don't.

I feel for the Iranian people. In my lifetime, they've gone from a totalitarian police state under the Shah, to a totalitarian theocracy under the Ayatolla Khomeini, that has morphed into a nationalistic theocracy that seems bound and determined to subvert local nation states in the region. In all of these instances, the people of Iran as a whole have had little or no say in these matters.

Now with the UN concerns about the direction of Iran's nuclear ambitions comes the real possibility of economic sanctions, and the ugly possibility of a war that as a nation they can't possibly win. I've been reading about this nations long, long history for many years, and these people heir to a culture that predates European by many centuries deserve better...

It makes me sad to think that so many wonderful things may be doomed to destruction because of the actions of a few megalomaniacs in Tehran. As I said the Iranians and the Iraqis too, for that matter; deserve better.

I think that the Iranian government needs to be "removed". Only 10% of the people are on his side. The rest of the population feel helpless because they fear the government, and are afraid of them turning the military on them. Anyone that supress'' a people should be destroyed.
As I said before, a few missles in the right place and the government will no longer have power because they will be gone. Even in Germany, it is illegal to say that the Holocaust did not occur, because the government say's that they never want to allow the possibility of anything like that ever happening again. It would also show our enemies that the supression of others as well as feeding the furnace of death, will be met by their own.

Originally posted by ForceMaster
I think that the Iranian government needs to be "removed". Only 10% of the people are on his side. The rest of the population feel helpless because they fear the government, and are afraid of them turning the military on them. Anyone that supress'' a people should be destroyed.

That isn't our job. If you would like to put your life and tax dollars on the line then be my guest though if you care that much about Iran.

Originally posted by ForceMaster
As I said before, a few missles in the right place and the government will no longer have power because they will be gone.

Then you've got another Iraq on your hands where America needs to instate a new government.

We don't really need another, bigger version of Iraq to be dealing with.

IT matters not,
We're still going to bomb the crap outta them...
im certain many Iraqi's felt the same too.....

didnt stop us from labeling them all terrorists and insurgents.

posted by Forcemaster

I think the Iranian government needs to be "removed." Only 10% of the people are on his side [President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad]. The rest of the population feel helpless because they fear the government, and are afraid of them turning the military on them. [Note: Grand Ayatollah Sayed Ali Khamenei, elected by the Assembly of Experts, holds the ultimate power in Iran.] As I said, [cruise] missiles in the right place and the government will no longer have power because they will be gone. [Edited by Don W]

Shock and Awe 2? Have we gone berserk? First off, Ahmadinejad was popularly elected by the Iranians. Democracy in action. Secondly, while I cannot address any claims of how may Iranians do not like Iran’s current policy, and in particular its growing dispute with the United States, Iranians are like Iraqis; they do not like foreigners occupying or dominating their country, bad as it may be. Third, we seem to be the most impressed by our cruise missiles and the rest of the world does not hold them in such awe. Perhaps it is because our Administration does not say how many out of how many actually hit the intended target. Methinks the number is way off of 100%.

Even in Germany, it is illegal to say that the Holocaust did not occur . . It would also show our enemies that the suppression of others as well as feeding the furnace of death, will be met by their own. [Edited by Don W]

Are you paraphrasing Jesus? “Those who live by the sword shall perish by the sword!” Could you give me book, chapter and verse, please?

posted by Agit8dChop

IT matters not . . we're still going to bomb the crap outta them . . I’m certain many Iraqi's felt the same too . . didn’t stop us from labeling them all terrorists and insurgents. [Edited by Don W]

You may be right, Mr A8-C. “Terrorists and insurgents,” terms of pure propaganda - championed by demagogues - for those who do not kowtow to the US agenda. And it falls to the gullible in uniform to die for this. This must surely be the low point of Americanism since Jackson’s Trail of Tears or the Army’s Massacre at Wounded Knee. Our own earlier but smaller Holocausts.

Originally posted by sardion2000
I wouldn't count out the Iranian youth as "powerless."

They are if they're being mowed down by fanatically devoted military units.

The Supreme Leader needs to be deposed for this to happen, and that will be a difficult task.

The problem is that the supreme leader really IS the supreme leader, the ayatollahs are religious leaders first, and the authority of hte state flows from their religious interpretations. So you can't 'depose' them, you can only violently overthrow them.

It'd be hard enough to overthrow a leader, but another to overthrow the pope at the same time.

xphilesphan
least damage to their government is better than killing the commoner with backbreaking economic policies.

But look at iraq, the attack was primarily concerned with the government. It's resulted in hundreds of thousands of civilians dead and chaos and anarchy on the streets. If we attack Iran and remove their government, thousands of people will die. Economic sanctions aren't directly killing anyone.

Forcemaster
Only 10% of the people are on his side.

Where are you getting that from?

Anyone that supress'' a people should be destroyed.

Whats suppression? The Iranian government carries with it the threat of violence if people rise up against it. So does the US government, so does every government. The Iranian government isn't a liberal democracy, but its not a totalitarian state.

Your signature flag bearing a blue star on white background strongly resembles my memory of the “Man in Service” flags that were hung in the windows of homes during the Great War, World War Two, the War we all loved. Excepting of course, those who died in it and their kin. In those cases, the star was gold.

My memory of it makes it the supreme time of my life. As an elementary school boy walking the 3 blocks to my home, we boys would actually be quiet as we passed houses with the sign, “Shh! Defense Worker Asleep.” People blew their horns if anyone drove past them going faster than the 35 mph national speed limit. My father proudly wore a red, white and blue lapel pin bearing the logo, “Army-Navy E” which signified a factory that had equaled or exceeded its production goals in fulfilling war contracts. The E was for Excellence. The factory was eligible to fly a flag to the same effect. My dad worked at a plant operated by Consolidated-Vultee installing equipment in B24s made at Ford’s Willow Run factory where 8,500 were built. Ahh, those were the days!


[edit on 2/22/2007 by donwhite]

Hi Xphile, you raise a very important point here one which I have mentioned before. Its a fact of life that the majority of humans want to live in peace, with food in their bellies, clothes on their backs and all the rest of it. People from all walks of life irrespective of the nationality or colour want to grow old and see their kids grow up.

People who have nothing have everything to fight for, feed the people, give them hope and there will be no room for the extremists. But this action has to be done peacfully and not by means of war. To attack Iran even if its only the Goverment and nuke sites means you will have millions who hate the US and its people for what it has done to its country.

This is all ammuntion for the extremists, such actions push the people into their awaitng arms. Wars dont work, history has shown us that, its time to try a different approach. Maybe the US can do what so many here say it proclaims to do, that is to help people, give the people what they need but do it peacfully.