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Knowing What The Actual Problem Is!

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posted on Jun, 26 2006 @ 05:03 PM
The Bush Administration claims that the Patriot Act is a "vital law" necessary because of a "new day" of terror among us. One of its major provisions is the ability to wiretap, spy upon and snoop the records of the American people.

What most people are not realizing is that there was major dialogue even decades before 911 where concerned citizens were objecting to the government claiming for itself the ability to snoop into the private lives of the American people. Because of super computers now, they find it profitable to MASSIVELY snoop the records of the American population, whereas in former times it snooped rather singular records of whomsoever they pleased. You may think this is not true. Growing up I know that the demands made by the Bush Administration to snoop the American people were by far nothing new.

For those of you who don't know, in 2000 a major snooping device called Carnivore was revealed to the American people. Naturally there were major objections, but even a majority of people can never get their way nor a vote when strange people tell us they want to spread DEMOCRACY all over the world! Nevertheless, at that time the FBI adamantly claimed that use of the Carnivore system was perfectly legal, to then, after 911, claim they can now snoop the American people legally because of 911.

This whole situation people have already dialogued about, boils down to the fact that when enemies of America and the Constitution ever dominate the government, then the actual American people become their enemies. These then seek and work to dominate, control and then destroy the American people. That's why, with the issue of terror, every engine of force points to and against the American people. They are the ones being snooped even though we know of no American that has actual family ties to terrorists other than Bush. Bush tells us in order to deal with terror, torture is necessary. He then says that the war zone is also over here in America where the American people are. Again those who proposed to make war against paranoia, miss the barn!

The best way to promote treason in America is to claim you are pushing the actual opposite agenda you are really pushing, and to accuse those exposing you with your training and agenda. This method has a paralyzing effect where Americans just can't believe that people would be that wicked. After 911, Bush constantly claimed that the terrorists hated us because we are free before he continued to take away our liberties and secretize everything in the government. After constantly denying the soldiers proper body armor deliberately, the first thing someone who does this would do is to accuse those concerned about the troops with not supporting the troops, and there to the point of treason.

One major way to understand this concept of the actual citizens of America being secretly considered enemies of those in government who hate freedom for everybody but themselves is the very 911 scenario. Two planes just tip-toed through the tulips to slam into the WTC buildings. The greatest nation on earth just watched them tip-toe with no face of no white man in charge blushing.

When Dick Cheney was asked why this was so, he naturally lied, telling us that no military jets were sent up because they didn't want to shoot down the passenger jets, as if sending up military jets is always and only to shoot things down. Those passenger planes were used as missiles with innocent people aboard without any trouble, as if the military itself saw no trouble with them being off course and being in a threatening posture.

But then something happened with the third plane. A military jet finally showed up in the case of flight 93. What is the difference between flight 93 and the other first two jets? The difference with flight 93 is that the military recognized what it considered to be a problem. The first two planes entering our sphere without an issue proves that the terrorists were not a problem. The difference with flight 93 is that the passengers on that plane were making an effective challenge to the terrorists.

If we therefore use Dick Cheney's claim, we would conclude that flight 93 was shot down by the military jet that appeared to address a problem!

Next, since Carnivore was merely revealed in the year 2000, it was likely that it was constructed even earlier. Its purpose and capability is to gather massive internet data and archive it. The evidence is showing that this device was already used well before 911. Therefore, guess what...

911 still came with the government already snooping the American population! When true Americans lead, then terrorists are the problem. When enemies to freedom lead, then the actual American people are the problem!

[edit on 26-6-2006 by tmac100]

posted on Jun, 28 2006 @ 09:58 AM
When 911 took place by our non-blushing protectors, didn't say, "Hey, we need tough surveillance devices so that we can catch these terrorists in the act. Let's construct them now!

Those devices were already created and were in operation.

And 911 still took place!!!

That's RIGHT!

At that time what was missing was an event to make those illegal devices appear legal and necessary.

posted on Jun, 29 2006 @ 11:40 AM
You may say, "Well how do we know those devices were not legal to begin with?"

Just look at the entire history of the United States. Then look at the time when technology was able already to archive sensitive data. Even the construction of the illegal snooping devices could not have been done before most of our positions of public trust became infiltrated with the enemies of America.

Conspiracy theories? That's why the even the Presidential Oath of Office mentions about enemies BOTH foreign AND domestic.

To laugh and say, "Conspiracy theories!" Is to do the same when innocent people can be detained indefinitely and killed just as had happened during the Inquisitions, all by a person who has personal family ties to the Bin Ladens. One person already said Bush is ok since the Bin Laden family disowned him publicly. That, of course, is just another lie. If I am a convenience store clerk and I sold cigarettes to a Middle Eastern man who turned out to be a terrorist, and Bush accuses me, can I tell him that I never knew the man nor ever had any dealings with any Middle Eastern man and he let me go?

I don't think so since under the Anti-American Patriot Act, no one can even defend himself.

Every "NEW" principle the government is enacting, they should be a victim of themselves. That would solve this so-called unsolvable issue of 911 and the Bush Regime.

They say, "We need war!" Put them and their families on the front lines so that they can sacrifice for what they hate: freedom!

They say that mothers of the deceased in the War in Iraq should shut up and start supporting the troops. Put them and their children on the front lines, and finally solve these issues.

They say that the soldiers should be content with the military they now have and not wish for a better military at a better time. Put them and the families on the front lines. Then we won't need a script to give them in response for their needs.

They say no terrorist should have due process or a fair trial.

Accuse them of treason and terrorism based upon their actions. When they tell you that's ridiculous and how they were not at any scene of any situation at any time, tell them, "SSSHHHHHHH, SHAT AP!! We don't accept alibis or defenses here! We say you're a terrorist, and that's that. We're gonna torture you, terrorist!"

Then, don't forget to include as terrorists the ones who laugh and cry, "Conspiracy theorist! AAAARRRRGGGHHH!!"

[edit on 29-6-2006 by tmac100]

posted on Jun, 29 2006 @ 11:49 AM
We're just showing you the simple solutions to all the so-called perplexing problems that arise in a new day when self-appointed psychiatrists arise and begin to tell us that we must reward presidents who fail to protect us, and, in the tragedies, he himself must not be checked out.

If we truly knew what was happening and did not know that it was bold treason taking place, we would conclude that we are being run under insanity.

posted on Jun, 29 2006 @ 11:54 AM
tmac, you are not Thomas Jefferson that fought against the Sedition Act of 1798.

posted on Jun, 29 2006 @ 11:59 AM
It's actually too late to do anything now. Bush is bold because now, with the Constitutional American soldiers exterminated on the front lines in war, and with th preservation of Anti-American soldiers running prison camps and wearing our uniforms...

Bush is now actually a dictator potentially!

This statement includes the benefits of having a Supreme Court fashioned entirely for his agenda.

This statement includes a Congress fashioned entirely for his agenda.

This includes the same rules for most offices of public trust in the United States all around the American people.

The advice for everyone now is to avoid areas of high population and prepare for more and more heightened global tragedy. Although Bush is waging the War on Terror, fact is, global terror will rapidly increase without precedent! The reason for this is actually BECAUSE OF THE WAR ON TERROR!

It included the wars that destroyed our loyal soldiers who love the Constitution. After they are dead, the enemies of America now infiltrated into and dominating our government have unrestricted use of nuclear weapons. With that they can now league with the Communists and escalate global disasters everywhere, including tsunamis.

Global terror will increase and increase despite the liberties they told us we have to submit for security. That is because these programs they told us was to eliminate TERROR was actually to escalate them.

posted on Jun, 29 2006 @ 12:02 PM
Delta Boy, that is a one-liner. And still, I am not a slave-owner as he was.

Before even bringing the errors or weaknesses of the American forefathers, just consider that you have alot of points and issues to deal with instead of the ones you know you must avoid.

With whatever faults the American forefathers may have had, one of them is not to reward a President who fails to protect us and who has ties to terrorists to the drive to sell off our ports to the United Arab Emirates.

I am saying that's why for the construction of the new Fourth Reich, discussion must be perpetuated and run in circles. The problem is that while this is being done, lives are being lost.

We would never reward a president who fails to protect us under the faces and graves of those who did not fail to protect us. You would do that. Thing is, you would not do that in your own personal life with people who fail to protect you or secure you. We conclude that people allow this only because they hate the present free American system.

We would never lift up a cry against paranoia and then remain silent around the most paranoid president in the world who starts an illegal war with a country we beat the daylights out of and then puts the whole nation literally under seige for allowing him to have family ties to the Arabs. You would do that!

[edit on 29-6-2006 by tmac100]

posted on Jun, 29 2006 @ 12:08 PM
instead of insulting out forefathers, how about thanking them. Chances are without their amazing accomplishments, you sir would never have existed.

posted on Jun, 29 2006 @ 12:14 PM
Stop trying to destroy discussion. With all the posts I have made, what made you to bring in this falsehood that I was insulting the American forefathers?

Now can you deal with why you would tolerate rewarding a president who fails to protect the American people without rewarding those who succeeded? The fact that Bush used pictures of the tragedy of 911 to bolster his political campaign proves that Anti-American blood is present. Why didn't you see that something was wrong with this?

Would you agree that independent investigations of major tragedies must take place right away, like we would?

We're just showing why this situation is perplexing and can only be perplexing now! Just like Carnivore was constructed in 2000 and nobody thought to do that before. The issue over constructing such a device was never perplexing to the American people before. Anyone even attempting to create such a device would be in trouble! Of course people thought to construct such things before. The problem is that Americans would know it is illegal.

You guys are coming back and back to make the discussion circular and to continue the insane way America is being run. If this is even not true, a bunch of anti-paranoids would not be paranoid about posts that reveal the truth.

I am showing how to see through the current perplexing issues concerning our new day of terror that came about when a certain president failed to protect us unlike every other. The points I am bringing are crystal clear--clear enough to attract you guys here. Now this country is being bankrupt in order to so-called free one country with a whole list of other countries run by dictators who have no regard for human rights. This is your intelligence being displayed here, and not ours. If America falls, Bush is fed and the few who support his inner designs. The American people are the losers. If Bush already shows that he has a liking to dictatorship, he will not worry about bankrupting the American economy. If this country was formerly on a surplus, and then Bush comes and it enters an unprecedented deficit and then posters on the internet come with a long list of Bill Clinton's faults, we don't conclude they are mere debaters.

[edit on 29-6-2006 by tmac100]

posted on Jun, 29 2006 @ 12:24 PM

Originally posted by tmac100
Delta Boy, that is a one-liner. And still, I am not a slave-owner as he was.

So what? I bring that up because Thomas Jefferson was a Republican in a sense of liberty, even when he was a slave owner. However, even he started to criticize slavery in the Notes on Virginia. Every president have views that are critical. Even John Adams considered one of the Founding Fathers propose the Sedition Act which he believed could protect America, where Jefferson slammed on it. Every president have dreams of what they want to do for America in their views.

posted on Jun, 29 2006 @ 12:30 PM
I'm sorry. Just trying to help your intelligence here:

We would never reward a president who fails to protect the American people. If we did, just on the first point, we would have to reward, even posthumously, those who did not fail to protect us.

We would never stage an independent investigation of 911 more than a year after the actual fact. We would never do that with any tragedy unless we were in a free governmental system that we hate.

We would never take the principles of the Inquisitions and push them for security to tell people that the Constitutional system that came much later, is "outdated."

We would never watch a president change a comfortable surplus to an unprecedented deficit and then publicize everywhere that 911 took place because that president that brought us the surplus failed to protect us. We would not struggle to shoot a bird from behind a barn.

We would never tell the American people we need to snoop their private information for security after we were already doing such a thing for years and even decades to the point where Carnivore was already created well before 911. Then 911 took place even though we were always snooping the private information of the American people. They claimed Carnivore was built and constructed for security concerns. Why did it fail?

Just trying to help you to see what other posters on the internet have not seen for years even with our help. As we tried to help other posters see these points and failed, they accused us of mental illness in order to help themselves more not see the issues here.

[edit on 29-6-2006 by tmac100]

posted on Jun, 29 2006 @ 12:41 PM
Its pretty simple tmac, you are a paranoid person who views the Bush administration that is supposedly bringing the Fourth Reich facist state and the rest you talk about is pretty much are beliefs and not about facts.

posted on Jun, 29 2006 @ 12:44 PM
Why didn't DeltaBoy and the others tell us that discussion forums are merely to bow to their lies and that they already figured everything out shown by the way our country is being run? Why then can't they solve the terrorism issue in a way other than reinstalling the Inquisitions? DeltaBoy, since everything is so simple, tell us how to solve the terrorism issue that wasn't here before Bush. Saw the CNN news channel today dealing with the Court denying Guantanamo Bay Prisoners Military Tribunals. Another spokesman came saying that this is a different time now and we need the Patriot Act and these tribunals. You mean for terrorism guys like you claimed were all around already all the time? We needed the Patriot Act at the beginning of this country?

Notice that DeltaBoy accused me of being paranoid and missed the barn of President Bush. Viewing a defeated Iraq that was "Bombed into the Stone Age" in Operation Desert Storm, and then under No-Fly-Zones, did DeltaBoy vomit when he saw Bush tell us we have to make war with it in order to "save America?"

You mean that's why all the issues I told you about are so perplexing? You mean it's because I believe others are facists why we must reward presidents who fail to protect us and stage investigations of major tragedies more than a year later?

You mean if I were not born, this country would be run with sanity?

You mean that's why there is such a fight against paranoia? 89 people at least were tortured to death because Bush believed they were terrorists? How come your crusade against paranoia didn't save just those 89 lives who obviously were not terrorists? Tisk, tisk? Se la vi! Collateral damage to protect a president who uniquely failed to protect the American people?

What were the points raised above again that you avoided using the insult? Is this an admission that you and all Bush supporters never had an excuse for your existence?

[edit on 29-6-2006 by tmac100]

posted on Jun, 29 2006 @ 12:52 PM
You push the limits to comparison to the Bush Adminstration to Hitler like. I do not in fact see the round up of millions of Muslim Americans and put into the gas chambers. I have yet to see the equivalent of the SS Death. You can be critical of the Bush Adminstration, thats fine with me. What I don't like is the comparsion of the U.S. becoming the Nazi Germany as you pointed out. Don't play BS like this is the first time we have talked about rights being violated. In the past we have presidents, even those that are well respect that have propose laws or acts that could protect the nation but might violate rights. For example FDR during WW2 who round up hundreds of thousands of Japanese Americans to camps which would later in history would be critical of that action. People may say its the right thing to do, people would say its not and it was evil and tyranny. Depends on who is judging.

posted on Jun, 29 2006 @ 12:57 PM
Excuse me DeltaBoy.

I am not interested in what people say and don't say. The country is right now running by what people say? One standard is the way the country was run before Bush, Clinton and others of the New World Order team. You have yet not even answered whether or not America was already snooping the private information of the citizens to then let 911 take place.

A teacher in Colorado already got into trouble for suggesting that President Bush, who has personal ties to the Nazis also, was following in the footsteps of Hitler. I don't worry about that teacher saying that since Bush himself will never make such revealings of his agenda to stop him from bringing it to fruition. If people are saying such things about him, why is he escalating these activities the Nazis always did? Bush said, when considering whether or not Iraq had Weapons of Mass Destruction (despite N Korea admitting boldly that it had) that we must not take chances. Would he take chances escalating activities the Nazis always performed while people are accusing him of being one?

The Nazis always supported the idea for detaining and imprisoning people without any rights and using torture. Bush is the johnny-come-lately here. The clear parallels will never bother you.

To the issues: what were the points above again? Would you reward a president who fails to protect us and stage investigations more than a year later?

Just trying to help the readers see if you really do not understand what you are being asked so that they can see your concern when people claim there is a conspiracy.

Just measuring your intelligence first before dealing with your issues around what was asked you as you waste the time of the readers here.

To DeltaBoy's side points. It is pretty hard to round up all Middle Eastern Muslims to gas chambers while struggling to sell our ports to them.

[edit on 29-6-2006 by tmac100]

posted on Jun, 29 2006 @ 05:54 PM
See how many times I had to ask the questions? Now, just one of them again...

Deltaboy, why would you reward a president who fails to protect the American people with powers above the Constitution of the United States when we have not done so to other presidents before him? Remember that you guys told us terrorism was always with us.

Please answer now!

posted on Jun, 29 2006 @ 06:13 PM
We believe the recent decision of the Supreme Court to suppress the presidential power of George Bush is merely a stunt to quiet the growingly agitated Americans who know what American principle is and what Nazi principle is. There is no reason for the arguments, debates and difficulty in figuring out this terrorism issue. The answers are there if Americans just refuse to listen to the people around President Bush and around us stationed to gridlock us. The simplest of questions unlocks these so-called difficult debates.

posted on Jun, 29 2006 @ 07:32 PM

Originally posted by tmac100
See how many times I had to ask the questions? Now, just one of them again...

Deltaboy, why would you reward a president who fails to protect the American people with powers above the Constitution of the United States when we have not done so to other presidents before him? Remember that you guys told us terrorism was always with us.

Please answer now!

Okay, you asking about some kind of reward which I have no idea what you mean. And what do you mean "not done so to other presidents before him"?

You bring up questions and yet you have no response to our questions like for example the thread you made about terrorism that existed long before Bush and many of the posters are pretty much annoyed about you.

posted on Jun, 30 2006 @ 12:11 AM
I post, some individuals then enter for the attack. I ask the simplest of questions, they come back, like so many others all over the internet for years, and replace answering the simplest of questions with accusations, claims they don't understand what I mean, etc. They then always thought-police. They already tell us that though we post on free systems, there are already certain beliefs we must not have in a free country. You have been doing that also. Why should I care if other posters are annoyed at me when the country is being run to destroy the lives needlessly of many soldiers and to make a president having ties to Nazis and terrorists a king for failing to protect us? I am annoyed at the loss of life and the treasonous insanity. How can those engaged in this treasonous insanity like me? With the gravity of lost lives and the end of liberty, what are you annoyed about? I'm annoyed all like you can't find your destinies on the front lines in Iraq! Clearly if you knew this was coming to you based upon your thoughts that condone the absurd way this country is being run, you would see many more things you pretend not to see. I'm different from you. I'm annoyed at the lost lives, the insanity and the threat of America being transformed to another fascist establishment. As you laugh and claim I am paranoid, Bush shows the worst paranoia and you're not upset. What am I therefore supposed to think. We can all see that even the right questions are not being asked because people are stationed to make sure they are not asked.

I am not, in a free country, to be coerced into seeing things your way, when you have joined a vast club on the internet that pretend you can't see the plainest of questions, so it is best that you spend time with and fight the person who posts things you cannot see. Then, if you cannot see what the questions mean, that means you need to make sure that your mindset and views are not forced upon anyone, let alone the globe. Unfortunately, you cannot see that this should not be done either.

If you are so lacking in intelligence to not know what the question means, why are thoughts like yours dominating America and world affairs today when you have no credibility? All such without proper intelligence should not do anything to urge or force their ideas on society. That's why you can claim you don't even understand the questions above, which, of course, is another lie. Why would you openly lie to the readers here like President Bush openly lies to the world? When I asked if you would arrange the world so that it would reward presidents that fail to protect people, you really didn't know what I meant? You really think we are that naieve?

If you are so lacking in intelligence to copy the responses of so many others like you who evaded questions, how can you know that my posts are bad or wrong?

Why do you also claim credibility in your statements and cannot see clear questions that are being asked of you? Why replace answering the clearest and most powerful questions again with a baseless lying accusation?

I am now asking you questions, but like I said, just watch the judge programs and all readers will know whether or not you would survive when you already don't have an excuse for yourselves. Neither will I personally answer any questions to give you guys an excuse to go around the clear ones I already asked. It is not fair even dialoguing with people trained to run around questions that are so simple, only people engaged in treason would have trouble with them. Next, I did not approach your posts. You approached mine. I don't have to answer any questions you have, when answering the simplest and most clearly expressed is appearing to be against your religion. Many others have done that in order to waste time and make sure they don't answer the easy questions that I give.

There must be a reason why you guys evade so much. There must be a reason why you guys do everything but tell concerned Americans they cannot know there is a conspiracy in a free country. Why not just tell them this instead of laughing and calling them "conspiracy theorists" for disagreeing with you?

I don't care which of you is annoyed at me. This is still a free country, and I reserve the freedom to try and save the lives that are within it. I already challenged you a number of times to answer simple questions and even foretold that you would come back with some tactic to side-step them, and you come and bow and do exactly as I say. That's why my forum was arranged so that the plainest questions must be answered. Please never again insist that I have to respect your ideas nor those like yours on this system that supports the current insanities in a free country. I reserve the right to disagree with the treason while you support a president who has messed up so many times with the right to destroy anyone he wants without ever realizing that he needs paranoia medicine. Why would you think that the steady march to the Fourth Reich will be met with no effective opposition?

I have already shown that the Patriot Act comes from the Inquisitions. You saw the question and the proofs and knew you had to come and not address what was written, thus again wasting the time of the readers. Are the rules and principles of the Patriot Act new? Did those principles come from outer space? You and I know that the Patriot Act is fashioned directly from the Inquisitions. That's why you are not even mellow. There is a forcefulness and policing of thought in you also. You cannot now tell us to give up what we believe, so you guys do the next best thing.

Let me assure you that you see this question and know what it means as you saw all the others. If Bush can stand before the entire world and claim he doesn't think anyone could have foretold that the levys would fall during Hurricane Katrina while video tape even shows him in meeting about that possibility, we assume that others can have the same disease of a voided conscience who would support him.

I am unconvinced that you don't understand the questions or issues I have written. Other than a traitor, only a downright castrated idiot would spend so much time with what he doesn't understand. If the second option is true, such an idiot would have no inclination to make sure others accept his beliefs.

[edit on 30-6-2006 by tmac100]

posted on Jun, 30 2006 @ 12:54 AM
Let's try it again with the mentalities now ruling the world and possessing the same behavior patterns as President Bush...

Deltaboy, why would you reward a president who fails to protect the American people with powers above the Constitution of the United States when we have not done so to other presidents before him who protected us from TERROR and Patriot Acts? Remember that you guys told us terrorism was always with us.

Please answer now!

DeltaBoy, was the government already snooping the private information of the American people before 911? After 911, did Bush say that we had to construct new devices to snoop on the American people? Or were those devices already built and in operation. Did 911 take place nonetheless?

I confess that I have the intelligence to understand what is written here like many kindergarteners would. Please demonstrate for us again your intelligence that polices the thoughts of America!

[edit on 30-6-2006 by tmac100]

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