Dark Yoga

I also understand the different POV's on the subject of the ego. You say that the ego is also responsible for good in the world. Good point. I will not disagree, but it could easily be argued that it is the devine spark within you that yearns to give love. The ego would tried to turn that philanthropy into a self-praising moment (or try to). Love and compassion are autonomous, they flourish on their own.

There does not need to be an ego (loose term) to have a personality. Is it not true that every bad charactoristic you may have is derived from a conflict within the go? (i.e. jealousy, competitiveness)

Akshic, I do not know of the philosphy you are speaking. I have been most influence by the Yogi Philosophy...

I thinkk people are putting more definition to these topics than the authors had intended. Just my thoughts, AAC

Originally posted by zenlover28

Originally posted by AkashicWanderer
If we simply gain control over the ego, how can we free the consciousness trapped within it?

Akashic, what makes you think that we're meant to?

Nothing, I was simply asking AnAbsoluteCreation why he espoused all of the ideas of Eckhart Tolle's philosophy, except for the need to completely get rid of the ego.

Originally posted by SteveR
Every person here claims, or acts to claim, enlightened / spiritually aware to an extent. Yet there is much disagreement going on, even snapping and defensiveness. Without further comment, I will say I find that fascinating.

They do? I love my big fat ego, so i'm telling ya I am far from enlightened or spiritually superior to anyone. I don't believe in it anyway.

Akashic...Ahhh...I see.

[edit on 23-6-2006 by zenlover28]

Problem here may be pretty much semantics. You need a shared definition to work with.

NM

[edit on 23/6/2006 by AkashicWanderer]

Originally posted by AnAbsoluteCreation

I thinkk people are putting more definition to these topics than the authors had intended. Just my thoughts, AAC

No offense, but you were the one who attempted to define it. Anyhoodle, whatever definition you all agree upon, ego has its purpose in the world.

As far as Dark Yoga, I know nadda about it. Have a nice afternoon!

Originally posted by zenlover28

Originally posted by AnAbsoluteCreation

I thinkk people are putting more definition to these topics than the authors had intended. Just my thoughts, AAC

No offense, but you were the one who attempted to define it. Anyhoodle, whatever definition you all agree upon, ego has its purpose in the world.

As far as Dark Yoga, I know nadda about it. Have a nice afternoon!

We are all our own individual destiny, with our own exact understandings, that we guard almost stubbornly at times. This said, there are few truths that are accepted exactly the same by all, for we all have our own useful interpretation. With compromising dialogue, we can understand eachothers point of view, as in why they see it that way. Peace, AAC

a simple way not to let your ego control you is to not insult someone back when he insults you and not let it get to you and don't brag about anything, and don't do things in life for the purpose of others thinking certain things of your self for example do not play a musical instrument to acheive praise from others admiring your skillz but learn the instrument for the soul purpose of creating music you want to hear in this reality and nothing else.




ego is just an illusion don't let it blind you.

Originally posted by biggie smalls

Originally posted by wu kung
Yikes!
Easy, easy.
You don't have to jump at me like that.
I'm not a practitioner, I was simply passing on what I had learned from a group of other practitioners that I used to go to school with.

I was not trying to impede on you, but I felt you had crossed the line with your words. I take things a little too seriously at times and this happened to be one of those occasions. Next time though if you're going to call something bad/good, make sure you're informed

. Do as I say not as I do right? Haha wrong...

??????
"Do as I say not as I do right? Haha wrong"
??????
I'm pretty sure that I made it clear that I believe at the highest level, there is no good or evil, but hey, I guess you can't please all the people all the time.
Well, whatever bro (or lady...whatever) it's cool.
It doesn't really matter what you believe, as long as you believe in something.

And isn't it painfully obvious that I can't proficiently use the quote function?

Originally posted by Nygdan
I thought that yoga was no more that exercise and meditation, no real purpose, no real goal, no real structure.

As a few members have already mentioned that isn't the case.

Yoga is a vast and rich system, and its purpose is none other then good ol' enlightenment of Mind.

However, Hatha Yoga (exercise, breathwork) was/is the prevalent flava of Yoga to trickle Westward.

Originally posted by Majic

Rather, an adaptation of it.

Ego death, ego destruction, ego adaptation. Prolly an unnecessary battle of semantics. I'm sure the correct meaning of the term "ego-death" will ring true to someone who is intuned with intuitive truth. It could very well be the Masters intended meaning was more along the lines of 'ego adaptation'.

But then, that's probably just my ego talking.

Similarly, I find myself curiously juxtaposed between the welcomed ego loss that inevitably follows zen meditation, and the ego-massage that comes to fruition with tantric yoga

While spiritual progress may necessarily require redefining one's sense of self, I don't think it necessarily requires the death of ego.

I myself have not fully given into (I still read buddhist scripture tho) the idea that the Ego is purely illusive; thus the necessity of its demise.

I feel there is two paths, neither 'better' then the other. 1) complete ego destruction 2) complete ego mastery(control). I feel both ultimately share the same destination in that the Ego is replaced by an elightened Mind (full spiritual awakening). I'm pretty sure you meant ego control when you mentioned redefining self?

Without my ego, there wouldn't be much left.

Since enlightement is presumed as being a state of Mind, I feel it's safe to assume(is it ever?) when the Ego dies your old Mind will die, merely as a necessary and transitory state, as it gives birth to a different Mind; a different self-identity.

Concerning there not being much left... perhaps less on the inside but more receptive to the outside (all-seeing awareness)? It's funny how the path is so subjective but the ideal state of Mind is ultimatelty and intrinsically objective...so they say anyways.

Wow. Is my word-count appropriately justified? It's summer, majik is in the air, and my keyboard is manik =] *lapses into a blissful state of insomnia*

Peace out. Wait I'm not done...

In response to the thread creator's question:

From what I infered from your post I am inclined to think "Dark Yoga" is synonymous with Tantric Yoga. In tantric yoga you are redirecting egotistical thought and energy towards a higher power, God, illumination, etc. So it's definitely running perpendicular to say zen buddhism's ego death, but i'm not privy to the 'dark' connotation?

Destroying sense of self (Ego) in hopes of what...

Originally posted by SteveR
Problem here may be pretty much semantics. You need a shared definition to work with.

I think you have hit the nail on the head. Their is alot of disagrement on what to do with the ego. Destroy it, or control it. But i think everyone here has a different view on what the "ego" is. Is it simply "personality"? Or the "spirit"? Or is it ta facet of the "spirit"? Is it self-realization? Or counciousness? Maybe its the aspects of our selfs that we dislike?

I think firstly to come to anysort of census on this topic we first must agree on what the "ego" is, befor we come to a conclusion on what to do with it to become more "enlightend".

Personaly i believe the ego or self-actualization is simply our memories, and beliefs. Wich then tries to interpret our reality, the same way a previous member decribed, labeling objects and living in a dualistic mind set. Now the word "ego" does have a "negative" conatation to it, it is normaly said "they have a big ego" this normaly is offensive. So if we do define the "ego" as something that is the negative part of ourselves then i agree it should be destroyed. But if we define it the "ego" as self -actualization then it should be something that is controled to aim at the "good"


Sorry for all the qutation marks, just felt like it was needed for terms which can be interpreted in different ways.

Originally posted by 9LC
a simple way not to let your ego control you is to not insult someone back when he insults you and not let it get to you

That isn't your ego precisely... Its your brains neuro net.. which sees an insult as an insult from a result of teachings and enforcements.. (being insulted)
It's your ego seeing thru your brain that sees itself... like if you were to wear a costume looking out the eye-holes seeing urself in urself. Therefore a better statement would be... Don't let your flesh control your ego[which is you].

and don't brag about anything, and don't do things in life for the purpose of others thinking certain things of your self ....[Pride] for example do not play a musical instrument to acheive praise from others admiring your skillz but learn the instrument for the soul purpose of creating music you want to hear in this reality and nothing else.

once again, a distorted vision of your ego... those are things that have to do with your flesh... which I repeat IS NOT you... it's a costume... bragging is merely about the mental or physical accomplishments, you can hardly brag about spiritual things.. God loves me more? .. I'm a better clairvoyant? people still brag about them, but its still someones attempt to get someone to look at their reflection.

ego is just an illusion don't let it blind you.

I would surely hope you don't believe you're only an illusion... its the flesh thats the illusion.. stop and really think about that statement.

[edit on 26/6/06 by dnero6911]

[edit on 26/6/06 by dnero6911]

Originally posted by wang

Originally posted by SteveR
Problem here may be pretty much semantics. You need a shared definition to work with.

I think you have hit the nail on the head. Their is alot of disagrement on what to do with the ego. Destroy it, or control it. But i think everyone here has a different view on what the "ego" is. Is it simply "personality"? Or the "spirit"? Or is it ta facet of the "spirit"? Is it self-realization? Or counciousness? Maybe its the aspects of our selfs that we dislike?

I think firstly to come to anysort of census on this topic we first must agree on what the "ego" is, befor we come to a conclusion on what to do with it to become more "enlightend".

Personaly i believe the ego or self-actualization is simply our memories, and beliefs. Wich then tries to interpret our reality, the same way a previous member decribed, labeling objects and living in a dualistic mind set. Now the word "ego" does have a "negative" conatation to it, it is normaly said "they have a big ego" this normaly is offensive. So if we do define the "ego" as something that is the negative part of ourselves then i agree it should be destroyed. But if we define it the "ego" as self -actualization then it should be something that is controled to aim at the "good"

It isn't the personality, the personality acts like clothes, we choose what to wear on our ego.
It isn't the spirit, the spirit sustains it.. Like our ego sustains our flesh..

Our Ego is our seperate identities.. our memories and beliefs once again are like a costume, it doesn't change who we are (the ego) it simple changes its appearance..

The negative connotation stems from our misunderstanding/definition of the ego for one and second.. having a big ego, just means having no regard for anyone but yourself, thinking of yourself as more important.

Originally posted by dnero6911
It isn't the personality, the personality acts like clothes, we choose what to wear on our ego.
It isn't the spirit, the spirit sustains it.. Like our ego sustains our flesh..

Our Ego is our seperate identities.. our memories and beliefs once again are like a costume, it doesn't change who we are (the ego) it simple changes its appearance..

The negative connotation stems from our misunderstanding/definition of the ego for one and second.. having a big ego, just means having no regard for anyone but yourself, thinking of yourself as more important.

Ok i understand abit more you believe of the ego, but i dont understand how you can say our memories and beliefs are life a costume, it doesnt change who we are.
How can you memory and beliefs not change your "ego" as your memory and belifs dicate the person you are?

As to say i would be a very different person if i had the memories and beliefs of adolf hitler, would i not? Again sorry for the cliche character, just wanted to use a extreme to show my position.

I dunno y'all, but my interpretation of the 'ego' and most people's interpretation of it is how we are conditioned by society. You know the story, we're born and we're taught right from wrong as society defines it, thus the whole 'ego is an illusion' argument because if you get down to the nitty gritty of it...it is an illusion. However, to take it further you would have to believe that deep down inside of us all, we are good and that spirit is nothing but goodness and love in order to believe that this world would be better off without the 'ego'. And this is where my beliefs tend to go in a different direction than that of Buddhists and Spiritualists.

I don't believe any of us are basically all good and I think that spirit (if there even is one) cannot even attempt to distinguish between good and bad as it is subjective and based on what humans have determined is good and bad. The hardcore truth in my eyes is that we're all ugly and we're all beautiful on the inside. I don't believe we're born good or bad as we are born only with the basic instincts of survival and we have to be conditioned and taught good values based on mainstream society's perception of values at that particular time. It doesn't mean we all conform to it in the long run, but the majority attempt to or at least many attempt to keep it secret if they do give into their basic desires and animal instincts and some people just don't give a crap and rebel entirely.

So, when I state that 'collective ego' and it's evolution has more to do with the big picture than many give it credit for, I believe it does. It basically determines in the average person how you are conditioned from birth on many different angles. I understand that there are people that believe there is a divine spark in all of us and therefore if you take away 'ego' all that will be left is love. Is love not merely a concept made up of many other concepts? What defines love? Is it this overwhelming feeling you get that lasts forever? Or is it a combination of many things such as understanding, forgiveness, compassion, caring and so on and so forth. The same thing with hate. In my opinion we are not divine creatures. We're not special. And that is the hardest truth to grasp in this life. However, that is only my truth and subjective as well. I respect all of your beliefs, but if you think about it...it is your 'ego' that drives you to believe in this divinity. Never after a deep meditation have I felt this overwhelming spark of love. I've always felt a peace of mind that did not involve 'love' or 'hate'. And of course that peace of mind didn't last for any great amount of time as life had to happen. But, hey that's just me though.

Have a good day!

Originally posted by Masisoar
Destroying sense of self (Ego) in hopes of what...

In a hope that one will not be lead by blind ambition etc. The ego is not a good thing, I really don't understand why people think so. I have a very big ego at the moment that I've been trying to destroy for quite some time now. However, as soon as I feel like I've turned a corner, good old ego pops up again and I get pissed off about something silly. Think of it as your evil ugly selfish twin stepbrother/sister. Now they didn't have a choice in the matter of being born, but they did have a choice of how to behave afterwards. This is our ego behaves. We are born, given a choice (fight or flight) and this determines how we will act during life.

Ok...this has probably been a very confusing read, let me clarify a few points....

1). Ego death does not mean a "cover-up" of the ego, but a complete disintegration of its system. Being present accomplishes this. Once you have moved past the idea of past/present/future self, you will become present. We are LIVING life, the act of living. How can you live in the past or future? It simply does not make sense. Anyone who tells you otherwise is an outright fool.

2). All of our negative characterisitics and who we think we "ARE" comes from the ego. We are spiritual beings with (as has been said) "clothing" of the ego and body. The eternal soul is housed in the mind, which is housed in the body. The facts may be wrong (I'm not 100% sure how it works), but the concept is correct. We are being lied to about our potential. Open your eyes to the world around you and you'll have a better understanding of what I'm talking about.

3). Answers do not lie in our mind because the mind is controlled ultimately by the ego. To think, analyze, etc is still part of the egoic mind. I don't know how to explain it very well...Nature has been evolving for billions of years prior to humans existence. What makes us so special that we can change the laws of the universe? Nothing. We have to live by certain laws, and by "thinking" we have separated ourselves from the beauty of simplicity and ignored universal truths. As Descartes "thought," only mathematical truths can be proved in this world. This is partially true because we are living on the surface of something far greater than we can ever imagine. We live in the "outer darkness" as Jesus/Yeshua taught. This means we are unconscious to the world around us. To be completely entrenched in one's idea of self and society that one cannot look past the blinds and see who they really are: immortal souls. This is just a temporary stage of life (living on Earth), but the act of LIVING is forever. Why waste your time here if you "know" of an afterlife? Take the time to enjoy life, don't think this is a minor preamble to something greater. If you do not reach the kingdom of heaven (so to speak) while living, you will NEVER EVER find it.


Just some thoughts of mine....been contemplating but I have more to share after work...


I've been reading Eckhart Tolle's book "A New Earth" for whoever mentioned it so this is sort of where I got the idea of ego death, but I have been striving to do so for years. I knew deep down something was wrong with me, and yes it happened to be my overinflated ego. I usually do not take into account what others think of me and not that its a bad thing, but it puts me in a really cocky attitude.

Originally posted by zenlover28
Never after a deep meditation have I felt this overwhelming spark of love. I've always felt a peace of mind that did not involve 'love' or 'hate'. And of course that peace of mind didn't last for any great amount of time as life had to happen.

Really? I feel at peace and love with my surroundings...Infinitely connected like we are in reality. There is no separation between me and you, it is only the illusion of our bodies that make it so. We cannot see what is unseen because we do not believe.

A lot of people don't believe in "God" or whatever concept of "God" because they cannot hold it in their hands. I am not saying I believe in one entity as the God-head, but that we are all part of this greater existence. God is us, we are God, I don't know how else to put it.

Creation is a living, breathing entity. Everything that was, is, and ever shall be has always been connected. Imagine time as a circle that can be rearranged, cut, paste etc by conscious beings. Because we are not conscious as humans (yes I know people its a different idea of conscious than you're thinking of) to the greater realities of life, you could say we are unconscious. We are disconnected from the world because we are too caught up in our own lives to look at the bigger picture. Maybe its our fault, maybe its our ancestors fault, but the blame game is not the way to go either. It is up to every single person to do their part in reconnecting to the First Source (ah wingmakers ). What you do will affect your life and possibly others, so be aware of your surroundings when you make decisions. To live life blindly and go through the motions is to live DEAD. To be the walking dead, as Yeshua/Jesus describes it "Let the dead bury the dead."

Originally posted by zenlover28
I dunno y'all, but my interpretation of the 'ego' and most people's interpretation of it is how we are conditioned by society. You know the story, we're born and we're taught right from wrong as society defines it, thus the whole 'ego is an illusion' argument because if you get down to the nitty gritty of it...it is an illusion. However, to take it further you would have to believe that deep down inside of us all, we are good and that spirit is nothing but goodness and love in order to believe that this world would be better off without the 'ego'. And this is where my beliefs tend to go in a different direction than that of Buddhists and Spiritualists.

I don't believe any of us are basically all good and I think that spirit (if there even is one) cannot even attempt to distinguish between good and bad as it is subjective and based on what humans have determined is good and bad. The hardcore truth in my eyes is that we're all ugly and we're all beautiful on the inside. I don't believe we're born good or bad as we are born only with the basic instincts of survival and we have to be conditioned and taught good values based on mainstream society's perception of values at that particular time. It doesn't mean we all conform to it in the long run, but the majority attempt to or at least many attempt to keep it secret if they do give into their basic desires and animal instincts and some people just don't give a crap and rebel entirely.

So, when I state that 'collective ego' and it's evolution has more to do with the big picture than many give it credit for, I believe it does. It basically determines in the average person how you are conditioned from birth on many different angles. I understand that there are people that believe there is a divine spark in all of us and therefore if you take away 'ego' all that will be left is love. Is love not merely a concept made up of many other concepts? What defines love? Is it this overwhelming feeling you get that lasts forever? Or is it a combination of many things such as understanding, forgiveness, compassion, caring and so on and so forth. The same thing with hate. In my opinion we are not divine creatures. We're not special. And that is the hardest truth to grasp in this life. However, that is only my truth and subjective as well. I respect all of your beliefs, but if you think about it...it is your 'ego' that drives you to believe in this divinity. Never after a deep meditation have I felt this overwhelming spark of love. I've always felt a peace of mind that did not involve 'love' or 'hate'. And of course that peace of mind didn't last for any great amount of time as life had to happen. But, hey that's just me though.

Have a good day!

I think you are very acurate in your description of the ego, and emotions. As you said love could just be the combination of other feelings, but then again cant these other feelings like compassiong, empathy etc could just be social contructs again? Also you stated if we killed the ego all that would be left is love, but if love is just apart of the ego then you would kill them both. I believe that when we try to define something like we are, we truely see how fickle these terms we use are, and we start to see that when we try to seperate and define things we see how it is so hard to do so since they are truely the same.

So if the ego is a social construct, then what as i stated befor how we are brought up (memories and beliefs) define our ego.