Sol Invictus....the real meaning of Christmas

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
I just meant the old school gods were probably aliens, blown out of proportion.

Ok, now what you said up above can be defined logically as saying "aliens" as in alien life that is not from this planet I assume. Alien life can be anything. The word alien is irrelevent when speaking about god. Because nothing is alien really. Alien UV rays from our sun combined with H2O and Carbon. UV rays are alien. Its chemical reactions with our atmosphere and radiation are not from this planet.

origins of sol invictus

Here is more info om the origins of sol invictus. enjoy! Knowledge is power!

Here's the problem with your shopping list. The cult of Sol Invictus was pretty much created by the emperor Aurelian in 307 AD. Seeing how this was the same man who was famous for burning Christian scriptures, I would assume that it's safe to say he knew about Christianity. If you were an emperor faced with a 'cult' beyond your control, wouldn't it be moot to provide a sanctioned cult that has the same qualities and characteristics AND was protected by the laws of the Empire?

So, Sol Invictus is discounted. What about Mithras? There is absolutely NO Mithraic writings that have been validated by scholars that date before the 1st century AD. This is when the Mithras cult became popular among the Patrician class of the Roman Empire - indeed a time when mystery cults were rampant. There is a tremendous amount of archeological evidence supporting the Mithras cult as a sect within Persian Zoasterianism. The similiarities between Mithras and Christ can be traced once again to the 1st or 2nd century AD. There is nothing extant to support the claims that have been made by numerous posts. Let's see some LEGITIMATE sources - this means scholarly works that don't come from some whack-job internet 'authority'. One of the most distressing aspects of this forum is the absolute acceptance of the most transparently ludicrous online 'authorities'.

Why is Christmas lumped in with all these other religions? Well, Christmas in and of itself was never a huge holiday religiously speaking until quite recently. In Portugal and elsewhere, the Feast of the Epiphany has more significance. Easter is the biggest of all holidays. From my cursory research, it seems that the simpliest answer is that when Constantine converted, he converted from Mithraism. I wouldn't be surprised if Christmas was simply carried over. Certainly, the Catholic church has used pre-existing customs. Try reading the Heliand Gospel - this is a book written the appeal to Scandinavians using terms, stories, and characterizations that would be acceptable to these people. So what? Christianity spread from a religion of 12 to a religion that spread across continents within a handful of centuries. Missionaries used what they could to make their new converts comfortable.

From my cursory research, it seems that the simpliest answer is that when Constantine converted, he converted from Mithraism. I wouldn't be surprised if Christmas was simply carried over. Certainly, the Catholic church has used pre-existing customs.

Constantine never really converted. If you can't stop the truth by killing the believers, just attempt to take control of the movement. And so it happened. Instead of worshipping the Son of God on the Sabbath, the sun god is substituted on SUNday. This by Constantine, a priest in the worship of the sun.

Well everything is based on astronomy in time. Saying SUNday is the worship fo the sungod is silly then that means that the "moonth" or month the 30 days of the moons cycle are all atruibted to teh worship of the moon, and so is MOONday or monday, and what about Tuesday? spanisih MARTES day of MARS the god of war! and look! miércoles "wensday" is mercury! thursday Jueves for Jupiter, friday for viernes for venus, and saturday for saturn. hmmm and I know I combined spanish and english but all are based off roman launage with origins in Latin. This is a commonly known thing that the days of the week and every measurment is based off of astronomy.

THe day the sun goes back for its northern jump is not on December 25th. Its actually on december 21st the Winter solstice.

And in all actuality december 25th was chosen for christmas as it is the "SEASON OF LIGHT" Christ is the "LIGHT OF THE WORLD" to "COME DOWN TO DARKNESS" and the roman festival of "SATURNILINA" took place in the same time which was a feast of light. Not to mention that the jewish feast of chunaka was there also. The date of christmas is irrelvent. IT all about the meaning people do not attend christmas mass to worship some sun god.

Originally posted by Mizar
THe day the sun goes back for its northern jump is not on December 25th. Its actually on december 21st the Winter solstice.

Actually, the solstice lasts for a few days following the 21st. The days start getting longer around the 24/25.

Originally posted by Mizar
Well everything is based on astronomy in time. Saying SUNday is the worship fo the sungod is silly then that means that the "moonth" or month the 30 days of the moons cycle are all atruibted to teh worship of the moon, and so is MOONday or monday, and what about Tuesday? spanisih MARTES day of MARS the god of war! and look! miércoles "wensday" is mercury! thursday Jueves for Jupiter, friday for viernes for venus, and saturday for saturn. hmmm and I know I combined spanish and english but all are based off roman launage with origins in Latin. This is a commonly known thing that the days of the week and every measurment is based off of astronomy.

THe day the sun goes back for its northern jump is not on December 25th. Its actually on december 21st the Winter solstice.

And in all actuality december 25th was chosen for christmas as it is the "SEASON OF LIGHT" Christ is the "LIGHT OF THE WORLD" to "COME DOWN TO DARKNESS" and the roman festival of "SATURNILINA" took place in the same time which was a feast of light. Not to mention that the jewish feast of chunaka was there also. The date of christmas is irrelvent. IT all about the meaning people do not attend christmas mass to worship some sun god.

Yes..christ was the light of the world 2000 years ago. Still is through his writings, although, they really are not his writings. The light of the world now is technology. Learn science and then read religious scripture to open your eyes and help understand science better. If you only study science, then your depriving yourself if you dont read religion as well. The formula you get when studying both is a good way to reach enlightenment.

[edit on 6/28/2006 by StreetCorner Philosopher]

Originally posted by Sun Matrix

From my cursory research, it seems that the simpliest answer is that when Constantine converted, he converted from Mithraism. I wouldn't be surprised if Christmas was simply carried over. Certainly, the Catholic church has used pre-existing customs.

Constantine never really converted. If you can't stop the truth by killing the believers, just attempt to take control of the movement. And so it happened. Instead of worshipping the Son of God on the Sabbath, the sun god is substituted on SUNday. This by Constantine, a priest in the worship of the sun.

"If Constantine's coins long continued to be engraved with the symbolic representation of the Sun, his letters from 313 onwards leave no doubt that he regarded himself as a Christian whose imperial duty it was to keep a united Church. He was not baptized until he lay dying in 337, but this implies no doubt about his Christian belief. It was common at this time (and continued so until about A.D. 400) to postpone baptism to the end of one's life, especially if one's duty as an official included torture and execution of criminals. Part of the reason for postponement lay in the seriousness with which the responsibilities of baptism were taken. Constantine favoured Christianity among the many religions of his subjects, but did not make it the official or 'established' religion of the empire."
The Early Church, Henry Chadwick, p 127

I've killed two birds with one stone - sorry for the long quote. Chadwick, a learned historian and theologian, is one of the more eloquent writers on the Early Church. Constantine's actions as an advocate of Christianity is manifest to one who studies his career as an emperor. While it would fall to Theodosius to ban all other religions, Constantine's protection and advocacy of Christianity is a hallmark of his tenure as emperor. While he would continue to allow other religions - including that of Sol Invictus - no doubt it was the decision of an emperor who wanted to keep the crumbling empire from the brink of civil war brought on by religious wars. Constantine - by supporting the Christian church - made it's victory over the various pagan religions inevitable. His top officials - military and civilian - were mostly Christian. The Christian churches enjoyed special tax breaks and incentives. He encouraged wealthy Christians to build churches and develop the network of dioceses that would be the building block of the Church. His support included legal and political assistence in establishing orthodoxy - the Council of Nicea established the tone and framework for the Church's future efforts to establishing the doctrines of Faith.

To claim that the Catholic church - or Christianity in general - is merely a hodge-podge of various and sundry predeccessors is simplistic. I've established - based on accepted scholarly works - that Sol Invictus was actually a latecomer. I also still maintain that it really doesn't matter if there are pre-existing holidays on or near existing ones. Not to be flip, but there are only 365 days in a year.

Well, I must say, this has been a very good Topic.

First, from the Christ Mass perspective, I will suggest, the decision for this date, was to appease the Pagan Converts, but I still believe there is ACCURACY in celebrating this Date.

We KNOW for CERTAIN, Elizabeth, was three Months along, when Ms Mary RUSHED to tell her of the Message from the Angels, about being given the Gift from God, and what his name was to be.

John the Baptist was born during the End of June, and we can verify this, from the Rabinical Records, for those performing duties within the Temple. John's father was off work, since he and Elizabeth had many problems concerning previous conceptions.

So, if late June, is the period of John's Birth, then Christ would have been born approximately the same time as Queenie noted much earlier. From a Christian reference, I believe it is the Feast of Trumpets (although Queenie has likely been more accurate in her Title), and was the Period of the Census done by the Romans which was why Mary and Joseph of course, made their way home, to Bethleham. The best time to Census People is during their Holy Days, because everyone goes home. Today, we call them Holidays, but they once all where Holy Days

I have understood, Christ was born during the end of that Festival, during the Final Trumpet, which Paul happens to note, will occur when Christ Returns. Like he came, during the Final Trump. (speculation on my part)

Anyhow, when you review "Time" it is amazing that we may well be celebrating Christ's Conception on December 25th. (There or about anyhow).

And we also are told, that Life begins at conception, since when Mary Rushed to tell Elizabeth, John, (at three months since his conception,) jumped in Elizabeth's Womb when Mary approached. Recognizing Christ!!! (Christ, who within the last few days, was conceived himself)

As for the Zoroaster comments, I did find the following was a very interesting report.

www.iranian.ws...

9700 BC is the Origins of the Mehr (Mitras) Sun God Worship according to the Text. And I said it was Interesting. I have no means or intent to say it's Factual. It does offer some considerations and gives Dating for Various things.

Oh, and Queenie (I think it was you who noted about this)

The Fallen Angels and Satan PREDATE the Genesis Account of Creation - Recreation. This means, they have had at least 14000 Years of Time as they are known today, (as fallen). They predate the Aborigines, who have an Oral History of Creation from 14000 Years ago.

The problem becomes, everything the Sumerians and Babylonians refer to as God, are infact the Fallen. Ishtar, Baal and all those the Greeks and Roman whored to after.

But at some point, on the Sixth Day, and the Re-Creation of the Races, there would have been some period of time when God alone, was the Worship for the Planet. Adam and Eve and their son Abel, are given no Guidance on the Holy Days, and simply are following what is already occuring.

Prior to Eve, there is no notations of the Fallen actually 'taking' the Daughters of Men. That gives the Fallen, at the bare minimum, 1600 Years to teach everything they could to whoever would whore themselves to Worship them (the Fallen). This accounts solely as being a Physical Being.

And I wonder when I hear suggestions of Aliens.

What are Aliens? Nothing more than not from Earth. What are Angels? Beings from the Heavens and not from Earth.

I have a presumption due to my own Personal Bias, what we call Aliens today, are infact, the Fallen being released in the end days. When did Israel become a Nation again? When was Roswell? What took place in the Days of Noah? The Fallen, taking the Daughters of Man, and spawning Giants, Men of Renoun and a litany of freak genetic maniplutations such as the Minator.

Exactly what the Hell are Aliens doing? Genetic Manipulations?

But again, this has been a good discussion. lots of various things "Falling into Place" without needfully becoming a seperate and distinct topic of it's own.

It's all related and it's all relative.

Ciao

Shane

[edit on 29-6-2006 by Shane]

[edit on 29-6-2006 by Shane]

Originally posted by Sun Matrix
I guess I missed the part where it shows Jesus was born on this day. What paragraph is that in???????????????????????? Maybe you have another link???????

Here you go: users.aristotle.net...

I don't necessarily agree with the stuff about the lunar eclipse--I had never heard of them taking place at these times until I found this link just now. The information about Zechariah's temple service, et al., is what I'm pointing out--you can read up on the Jewish feast traditions for more symbolic verifications that link this feast with the birth of Yehoshua, if you like.

Originally posted by queenannie38
Here you go: users.aristotle.net...

That was interesting. This is similiar, to what I was noting, but I've never associated the Festivals to the "Occurances" in this case the Conceptions of Mary and Elizabeth.

I also did not know John was 6 Months older though. I thought he was only three, for some reason or another. Live and Learn!

Ciao

Shane

The Sun will continue to get weaker and further away from us now. It is getting cooler in every country on the planet. Winter is arriving, and when it does, it will signify the sun's strenghtening again and longer days.

The Holiday season is not too far away, So I decided to start writing on this thread again and focus on the real meaning of xmas.

Image by SCP

[edit on 9/16/2007 by StreetCorner Philosopher]