Iran: We Will Never Bow to USA

Originally posted by Majic
Iran: We Will Never Bow to USA?

Unless we forget it's all a game.

You might be partly right, but don't forget it's a very dangerous game, and how many people would have thought, during the 30s, another world war would start? It was caused by the weak economies and the consequences of it.

Originally posted by Mdv2

Can you please clarify the link with North Korea?

Twofold really.

A) It seems to have presented an example for the Iranian president's current actions, in that now it appears that having nukes will get the current admin. (of the U.S.) to actually talk to/deal with you (vs. just attacking/invading).

B) Disarming countries (or "fringe" leaders) of WMDs is not really our primary concern.

Just depends on which way you want to look at it, personally, I see it working both ways.


[edit on 6/16/06 by redmage]

I'm definatly sure a war against Iran will come anyway.
China is btw not backing Iran , but i don't trust Russia.
Anyway , this summer and the 4 months that follow we'll see what happens ...

Allie or not, Israël should be dumped. They are a bunch of warmongerers and the reason why America will fall. When they'll stop making war crimes and not be kind with everyone, they'll just won't deserve to be our allie, of course when the corporation fascism will be kicked out of the government...

Originally posted by Mdv2
Without the US there's actually no China, but for how long?

Certainly Russia benefits regardless, but the above quote is the catch that worries me.

Depending on how much Russia gains from us going to war with Iran, it could put them in a position to begin to fill the shoes left vacant by a collapsing U.S. economy.

So China might not be as bad off as it first may seem.

Some of you are hypocritcs............you whine about how the US should be diplomatic in other threads.....then you do an about-face and say the US is being humiliated. Make up your mind and stop trolling.................

The US needs China, China does not need the US. China's largest trade partner is the EU, while the largest purchaser of US debt is China. Without China bailing out the USA every day, US economy fails.

I am surprised nobody commented on the post regarding the failure of US ecnomy. It was to the point and accurate. There are many very wealthy people pulling assets out of the USA. Is the uSA does not change course, it will have serious economic issues in the next decade.

As far as Iran, they control islands located in the straights of Hormuz, and would shut down Oil shipments, even if temporarily would create massive ripples through world economies. But, as pointed out, the people in the White House today are incredibly stupid.

Originally posted by toolman

The US needs China, China does not need the US. China's largest trade partner is the EU, while the largest purchaser of US debt is China. Without China bailing out the USA every day, US economy fails.

I am surprised nobody commented on the post regarding the failure of US ecnomy. It was to the point and accurate. There are many very wealthy people pulling assets out of the USA. Is the uSA does not change course, it will have serious economic issues in the next decade.

Without the U.S., the Chinese would not be able to sell cheap products that most American consumers are eager to buy for low price, which in turn would lead to China's high trade surplus. China does need the U.S. The trade figures points that out.

Originally posted by deltaboy

Originally posted by toolman

The US needs China, China does not need the US. China's largest trade partner is the EU, while the largest purchaser of US debt is China. Without China bailing out the USA every day, US economy fails.

I am surprised nobody commented on the post regarding the failure of US ecnomy. It was to the point and accurate. There are many very wealthy people pulling assets out of the USA. Is the uSA does not change course, it will have serious economic issues in the next decade.

Without the U.S., the Chinese would not be able to sell cheap products that most American consumers are eager to buy for low price, which in turn would lead to China's high trade surplus. China does need the U.S. The trade figures points that out.

Agree with you we (Euros) might be the importantst trading partner of China, the fact remains that China cannot keep a steady economic growth rate of 9-10% without US investment, and export. It would not be catostrophic for China when trade between them and the US wouldn't be possible anymore, but it would worsen its economic growth enormously.

I have mentioned it before, in the end Europe will survive again. That's no biasm, but its economy is stronger, if required Europe can build up a military within no-time, as we've our own war industry, and Europe is a very important export and import partner for almost every country.

I am in China, and have been for several years. I highly recommend to anyone remotely thinking to visiting to get here, and see this incredible Nation. People are warm, food is great, etc.



Trade with the USA is important, but not the foundation of Chinese Economy. The USA Economy however, depends on China buying roughly 50% of its debt, each and every day, year in, year out. Investment dollars flow to China from the world Over because this is a Dynamic and supportive business environment.


Germany has the best representation in China, they got here early and are ingrained. When i visit someones house, they proudly show me their german glass windows, doors, kitchen appliances, cars, etc.

American Business really dropped the ball i am afraid. They love American products, and ask why nobody is here representing them. It is our Loss, and reason why trade imbalance exists.

Germany has a surplus with China, and probably always will, America could have had a Surplus, if we would get serious regarding business and trade with China.

original quote by:mr conspiracy
US is being humiliated by a third world nation.

Are you kidding, Iran is anything but a thrid world country. And our nation is going to find that out(the hard way) if we are stupid enough to invade Iran.

Good luck with that...the US will be in for a very rude awakening if they try to invade Iran. But I know thats gonna piss off some people in here but deal with it.
America has got to lose the superior attitude and humble itself alittle before the rest of the world does it for us. Im so sick and tired of Americans touting this whole "Im better than you " attitude. It is our own self assured sense of superiority that is going to be our undoing... And we will find that out if we invade Iran. America does NOT display its greatness in its ability to make war. it is in its ability to make peace. And contrary to what the Neocons-neolibs think; you cannot make peace through war! Thats like saying, Im gonna rob this bank so that another thief doesnt do it.

Besides Iran probably already has nukes(from the soveit black market) and they havnt used them yet. Of course No person can confirm or deny that Iran doesnt have black market nukes. Iran is nothing more then another stepping stone for the PNAC agreement and it matters not if they have nukes or not. We had planned to invade the broader middle east and theres nothing that is going to stop it(except maybe the people of America) But those chances are slim to none.

I love this country; but I abhore those who are sitting in power. So call me a traitor if you want. But, the only real traitors to this nation are those who are in power... so remember that when you criticize me.

Maybe try looking at it from Irans perspective for a second. From their eyes they see US inavding the region; imposing our beliefs and laws; and killing thier peoples. What would you do if the positions were reversed? and seriously think about that. From their point of view, they are the ones who are being threatened and have avery right to want to defend themselves.

Not to mention the fact that most of the coun tries surrounding Iran have nukes. Isreal(never signed onto the NPT); Russia, China, Pakistan, India. What would your country do if they were surrounded by nukes?... Oh wait we already did that it was called the Cold War! you see the hypocrisy here?

But you know what USA... go ahead and invade Iran... and when they get done whoopin our sorry behinds, dont say I didnt say warn us.

Once again to let you all know I love this country; I just cannot stand those in power who are destroying our nation!!@!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[edit on 16-6-2006 by TONE23]

War is always about money. I do not support war in any way shape or form. Having been in that mess to many times only a lunatic supports war. North Korea is totally different than Iran. There are no winners in war. Vietnam was a battle, not a real war. The soldiers that were there (me also) were not allowed to fight it the way it should have been fought. The Korean war (so-called) was and still is a police action (ask any father that was there) The first gulf war was a joke to everyone involved (was there too). All my point is is that is Iran attacked someone over there it's over- pure and simple. Anyone that think a war is winable now days is wrong. There are no winners. Only idiots that provoke it, and looneys that want it. It's always about oil and money. Russia will not stand by and watch Iran attack Israel nor would China. It's not in their monetary interests to allow or support it. On the other hand Israel is not going to stand back and wait to get bombed. Sure take out the infrastructure and there in the stone age. Iran is a big country and yes it is stupid to get in another war, but I feel sorry for the nation that thinks the USA cannot stand on its own and fight 2 fronts. We have before and I believe they could do it again. With technology as it is a great deal of damage can be done to both sides but the ones with the best tech seems to always come out on top.
Advocate war - no way. Support Iran - not likely. Give them nukes -not a chance. It might get messy but all in all it would be over very fast if it got out of hand. I honestly hope that calmer minds prevail and that Iran will do what is right and stop (at least for now) on the nuke programs. The US needs to stop also on all of its retoric about Iran. There are no winners. Please don't compare Vietnam to this fiasco in the middle east. Similar leaders but not the same type of battle.

Originally posted by maximusX
The last thing we need to do is start another war. With Russia and China backing Iran, we should have bowed out gracefully.

Who's starting another war? Iran is the one doing all of the trash talking here. Right now they are being pretty much ignored because their ability to project force is severely lacking. They keep messing around and talking crap and pretty soon somebody is going to have to start taking them seriously. This all comes down to capability and Iran's capability of projecting force past it's own borders in almost non-existant.

What does Russia and China backing them have to do with this. Right now all Russia and China are doing is kissing Iran's backside in the hope they can buy oil at a cheaper price. Russia and China are in the same boat as Iran when it comes to power projection. They can protect their own borders and that is about it.

Where has all of this talk of invading Iran come from? The worst thing that the US could do would be to invade Iran. Not because we couldn't do it, but because there are enough brainwashed fanatics there to make Iraq look like a picnic. If it comes to war between Iran and the US, all the US has to do is to sit back and destroy Iran's infrastructure and watch Iran tear itself apart.

Tone 23,
No one is invading Iran. Iran can't fight a war or a battle with the US and they know it. As for them "whoopin our butts" or whatever. Good luck. America does have an attitude and we are the best (or pretty close). Yes, we have interests in the region (oil). Russia and China have it as well but there is alot of work to be done to get theirs out. So it's easier to get the oil that you can buy or trade for. As for Iran having nukes - possibly. But if you were a little nation like Iran and you had a nuke would you use it. I think not. I agree take the infrastructure apart and watch the kill each other off. Perhaps then the people in the nation that want freedom from the religious fanatics can become a peaceful nation. All the sword and shield banging that Iran is doing will do no good. Either way some where down the road they will start a battle. This is all oil - always has been and always will be.
The lines are drawn and either Iran conforms to world pressure or all hell will break loose. You know it and so do I. But as I said before Russia and China have a vested interest in the region and they will not support Iran in an unprovoked attack on its neighbors. Not likely.

Oh I agree its about oil alright(at least one of the primary reasons) But its not to control their oil as much as it is for the petrodollar.

Iran Is many times stronger than Iraq was and to think were just gonna walk in and bomb them back to the stone age, to me, is a bit presumptuous to say the least. The worst thing we can do is be overconfident. And with us already fighting two lies(oops i meant wars) we have no room for underestimating our opponents.

Besides how do we know that the Iranian people are not happy with their govt?
Who is to say they want our interference?
And furthermore What gives us the right to tell a nation (surrounded by nuke weilding nations) not to have nukes. Im not saying that Iran is some angelic institution, but, They pale in comparison to the crap that this nation does all the time(iran-contra, 911, project northwoods,Iraq, Vietnam, etc) For all the "crap" that Iran talks we talk a hell of alot more. Also, I dont see Iran trying to force their beliefs on the world. Too bad you cannot say that about us.

Im sorry I have to disagree about this but there is NO bigger hypocritical nation in the world then ours; and thats the biggest tagedy of them all. We go around saying we are for peace and freedom but use war and control to implement these ideals? thats like skinning a cat to save it.

thanks for your time

[edit on 16-6-2006 by TONE23]

One thing that we must grasp is that Iran is weak in its military. Iraq nearly destroyed the Iranian military. And the F-14 or was if 15 that we gave them cannot fire their missiles. So a war with Iran will be pretty easy unless China and Russia help.

I think if you check out the Shanghai Cooperation Organization you will
be able to answer alot of your questions about Irans relationship
with China and Russia. I think they are just getting ready for an annual
meeting that is being held in China.

Originally posted by TONE23
Besides how do we know that the Iranian people are not happy with their govt?
Who is to say they want our interference?
And furthermore What gives us the right to tell a nation (surrounded by nuke weilding nations) not to have nukes.

If Iran's people are happy with their government that's fine with me.

Surrounded by "nuke weilding nations"? The only nuclear powers that share a border with Iran are Russia and Pakistan.

I don't care if they have nukes or not. It is the threats made by Iran's leadership that have me concerned. The only reason that Iran is still intact right now is because they DON'T have any nukes. I'm a firm believer in "honoring the threat" and if Iran develops nuclear weapons while still taking it's present attitude I am also in favor of eliminating the threat.

I have no problem with your view JIMC

I was only trying to illustrate another perspective from the Iranians point of view.

As far as bordering states with nukes goes; I shouldve been clearer and said neighboring countries not necc. border nations; sorry for any confusion there.

original quote by:JIMC5499
I don't care if they have nukes or not. It is the threats made by Iran's leadership that have me concerned. The only reason that Iran is still intact right now is because they DON'T have any nukes. I'm a firm believer in "honoring the threat" and if Iran develops nuclear weapons while still taking it's present attitude I am also in favor of eliminating the threat.

I can completely understand this viewpoint as Iran HAS made numerous threats to Israel over the past couple years. But other than Isreal; Iran , at least to me, is no threat to anyone else. Personally, I feel we are being used by Israel in this matter. But thats pure speculation(I admit that freely) I dont think that even if Iran did have nukes that they would use them(except maybe on Isreal) But I can at least see where you are coming from.

It would be great if this were a black and white issue; but few isssues are black and white. What if we are wrong , AGAIN? like with Iraq? Im not trying to be a smart ass here. I am just pointing out that this time the Intel community better get it right.

And since Iran does have this mentality towards Isael, It makes it alot harder to trust anything that Iran has to say. I mean it is hard to say wipe Israel off the map and then be taken at your word for peaceful production of one of the most deadly susbstances man has ever made(nuke weapons, nuke power); hence, our current geopolitical problem.

And hopefully there will not be a need for any @sswhoopin by anyone; and we will find a diplomatic solution. Im trying to remain optimistic
thank you for your time

Originally posted by TONE23
And hopefully there will not be a need for any @sswhoopin by anyone; and we will find a diplomatic solution. Im trying to remain optimistic
thank you for your time

Nice post TONE23. I agree whole heartedly.

You have voted TONE23 for the Way Above Top Secret award.

[edit on 16-6-2006 by JIMC5499]