The Symphony of Conspiracies and Why It's Important to be "Anti-American" (Op/Ed)

There are cons piracies still.

The fact that people would be afraid of the government, is a HUGE one in and of itself. You and everyone all know that is a certain favorite of mine. No one should ever be afraid of the government. It is we the people, not them the government.

No one in government office would be where they are with out, we the people and the votes of, or lack thereof as it may be. Now just as "ignorance of the law" is no excuse, so too is ignorance of what happens around you and within your homeland no excuse. I don't want excuses, most of you do not want excuses.

Ignorance = Complacence

Action can speak louder than words, if the word of the wise is not heeded.

There is a time for every thing. A time to plant the garden, and time to reap the harvest, as with other things. Do you know what time it is?

It is time to WAKE UP!
*Smashes alarm clock*

Me bambam.
No more snooze...


[edit on 13-6-2006 by ADVISOR]

Originally posted by DeusEx
See, here I go thinking the T&C prohibits things like agitating for murder, and encouraging hatred for folks based on nationality. THIS kind of anti-americanism is alive and kicking on the boards, and THIS is the kind of anti-american sentiment is what people like Winchester Ranger T and myself object to.

DE, I like you, but give me a break. I was screaming on these boards after reading about all the calls for genocide in the Middle East and hatred based on nationality/ethnicity, and guess what? It was said to be within the T&C and their freedom of speach. Only when people disagree do they make a fuss, and claim things like...

This is why people say there's a left wind blowing.

If you want that kind of vitriol to stop, ask for it to stop for everyone. As I see it now, people only want it to stop for the topics they are most sensitive to.

SO
I couldn't have said it better myself.

A person would have to be truly insane to be opposed to the fundamental ideals on which this country was founded. Calling someone anti-American is pretty ludicrous.

Anti-corruption is a much more honest label, but it's nowhere near as salacious.

Questioning the American government is the only American thing to do - the founding fathers knew this.

I think we all need to see this for what it is. The system isn't broken per say. The original constitution and the bill of rights really don't have anything wrong with them. A majority of the constitution as a whole doesn't have much a problem.

Mainly because the system isn't the problem, its those people exploiting it. Thats the true problem. We cant fix what doesnt need fixing. The system in the end can't actually be fixed because the system isn't broken...we are.

Theres a huge difference between the system being broken and the people and persons running it being broken. A country without broken laws, but the people exploit it, is still a broken country. We are broken, and in desperate need to be put back together. In another thread I said its time we restart. I think people on there thought I meant that the entire technology, system, and laws should be scrapped. thats not it at all though. When its time to restart its time to go back to square one and look at what we did wrong after the foundations were set. If we do it differently yet the same outcome arises, maybe then its the actual foundation. but right now what Im seeing is a great foundation with a house falling apart built on it.(start of story)

The foundation was built by one group of people, Honest Workers. The house was built by greedy construction corporations. They built a broken house, full of problems, but decorated the interior with decorations. they put up the pretty wall paper, the carpet, the ceiling tile, the full works. Sure looks real pretty when we are standing from the inside. We arent seeing anything under that paint and wallpaper. From the outside looking in though, people are seeing something else. They are seeing this house that looks broken down and unfit to even stay built.

These people yell into the house at us saying "hey, that house is completely run down and rotten, you need to fix that!" we stand inside thinking "what are they talking about" and react pissed off saying back "what are you talking about, our house is the best around. look at this beautiful interior we have. Look at the paintjob, and the ceiling tile, and the carpet. This is the best house on the block." mean while they look in and the house is starting to give. Unfortunately if the house collapses it will explode outward and endanger the entire block. Now they are getting pissed because they see one thing and we see another.

We see the best house around, they see a dangerous house ready to explode and disrupt the entire block. So they are yelling back now "we demand you do something about this house, its dangerous" and we look out there and see jealous people. they are just jealous of our wallpaper, carpet, and beautiful ceiling tile. Now we are getting the idea that maybe they just want to see us fall because if we change for them, then maybe we will just be downgrading ourselves. We see them and think, "they must be just trying to take away our beautiful house." So we come back with venomous remarks about how they are just trying to see us lose our beautiful home.

Its not long before some one outside gets tired and decides hes going to just rip you out of that house because his house is the first to get hit, should the house explode. he's out there calling us out. We are thinking weve got to defend our house. But in order to do that, we have to go out there and stop him before he can get in. So they decide they will take the strongest person in the house and the people that have been decorating the house when it was built is telling this guy "hey whatever you see out there is a lie. they are just trying to trick you into thinking something else."

so he goes out there and kicks the crap out of the guy who made some threats. He sees the house and starts to get confused. Plus the whole block of people is now yelling at him for kicking the crap out of this guy. So the strong guy goes back inside. Hes confused and a bit stressed out from the fact that he looked at the house and saw something a bit different. The decorator tells the people in the home the guy is just having a stress syndrome, dont mind him. so they go on with their lives.

Meanwhile we find out as time goes on the decorators are starting to charge more to keep the nicest decorations up. These guys are starting to get really rich off of the people in this home. truth is the decorators are working down the street, where the people in that home will work for half the price as the people in the nice home. The decorators see it as good business. Now people in the nicest house are paying ALOT for these decorations. They think that its no big deal, that its acceptable.

Prices rise, rise , rise. They just keep rising. Soon we are starting to wonder whats up. We are seeing the prices for these decorations rise pretty quick now. But we like our decorations, so we aren't going to stop buying them. We will complain about them, and tell the head man of the house to do something about it. He doesn't have any power though, because he doesnt really control anything anymore. The decorators now own the gas, electric, water, and just about everything in the house. He can't do anything so he just tells everyone things will be alright but hes really scared as hell because he has no idea what to do.

So now its at a breaking point. Its not long before something sparks and a long chain of events occur. Fighting happens, but in the end the decorators are finally seen as the problem, and we get rid of them. But then our decorations stop coming in the house. the decorations fall off and we see the truth. A crumbling old house, built on a great foundation. Everything up to the building of the house went well, but somewhere along the lines, we handed the house to the wrong people, and the reason for building the house got lost. Lost in greed. We forgot why we built the house. We built the house as a home for anyone who wanted to live there. After it was up and the decorators were in charge though we forgot that and started not letting people in telling them they were trustpassing.

In the end, it wasn't the foundations of the house, but the people who had built the house to benefit them. The decorations were just there so we could see the truth. We were tricked out of seeing what the house really was. A cheap factory for the decorators to make money out of. The house was built mostly by them, decorated by them, thus benefiting them.


Ok now, Im going to explain what I just wrote. The honest workers of the house were actually the founders of this country. The decorators were actually the corporations exploiting our country. We are the people standing inside. All the other countries are the people standing outside. When we see the inside of our "house" we see it as perfect. Everyone outside see something a bit different though. Something not so good, infact maybe even bad or dangerous for them. We start seeing them as jealous of our decoration. Our decorations is our freedoms and lifestyles. The money, cheap gas, consumerism. We see them as jealous of it. The guy that gets the crap kicked out of him is usually a country with alot of oil. Because if we are in danger hes the first country to be attacked for the resources we need. The strong guy is our troops. We send them out, and then label them with stress disorder as a way to disregard them to an extent if the propoganda wears off or doesnt fully work. The house down the street is cheap labor. The decorators (coporations) are using them too because thats the business way.The decorations also represent prices of gas and medicine. We see the price of the decorations go up but dont really give an outcry. We complain to the leader (government), who in fact doesnt even have power anymore because everything is owned by the decorator (corporations). We dont stop buying those decorations though because we are too attached to let them go. We dont need those decorations that arent necessary, but we cant give them up because our own person greedy.

Immigration is also played here because at the end it says how we forgot this was suppose to be the home for all people who wish to be free. started saying they are illegal, and sending them away. When the decorations fall we see it wasn't the foundations but the people who were controlling how the house (our current system) was managed, but covering it all up to make it look like it wasn't really changing or doing any worse.

In the end we see that the truth is being hidden from us, for personal gain. The people doing it are the same people selling us everything, and making us believe that we need it to survive. They make us believe there is no other house and that if this house falls, we will all die. The foundation is whats most important though because it cannot be changed from any amount of decoration or chaning. It was made, solid and firm. It was there before they came, waiting for us to discover it once again. To build the house that was meant to be built on it. The house for all.

EDIT: spelling*

[edit on 13-6-2006 by grimreaper797]

wow that was nuts. I just wrote that entire thing completely off the top of my head. the entire idea and everything part of it came to me as I wrote it. It was pretty interesting because before I knew it I had that huge post there. The whole thing was one big metaphor that immediately came together when I thought of it.

anyway yea thats my thoughts about the problem we are having.

Its not the system, but the people exploiting it and tricking us. The foundation is still there...waiting for us.

[edit on 13-6-2006 by grimreaper797]

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
Questioning the American government is the only American thing to do - the founding fathers knew this.

Questioning the accepted fact is fine as long as it has some substance, and as long as you present information, evidence or what have you to back up your assertion's, then fine, you have a discussion and a point. However what I have seen here on ATS is members posting ideas and conclusions without backing them up and without supporting them, claiming this is a conspiracy site and that its their right to post ideas and act as if they’re true without proving them. Questions with substance are fine, and I wouldn’t call anyone anti-American over that, but questioning this administration for questionings sake with no particular reason other than because it involves this administration is just ridicules. And yet there have been several examples of this on ATS and sadly several examples where it has been defended.

Originally posted by jsobecky
Sorry, SO, but I'm not seeing that. What I am seeing here, though, are replies such as this:

from FallenFromTheTree
As far as I'm concerned, anyone supporting the Bush administration is a traitor to their own country.

Originally posted by WestPoint23However what I have seen here on ATS is members posting ideas and conclusions without backing them up and without supporting them, claiming this is a conspiracy site and that its their right to post ideas and act as if they’re true without proving them.

You must not have been looking around that much then. Most of the criticism of the administration stems directly from either news articles, television programs, papers, books, etc. etc. Honestly, it seems like you are trying to make it sound as if there are no valid criticisms of the administration.

Even the threads featured on the front page about "The Bush Rodeo" and "The Police State is Here" stemmed directly from news publishings and documented pictures.

Sure, you can pick out what a couple of members wrote buried down on page 7 of some obscure thread like jso did, but that would by no means represent the overwhelming majority of responses that are intelligent and have valid sources and a logical argument to back it up. People can do the same and pick out little sentences you wrote months ago and claim that "republicans are so ignorant," but that would only be a silly little game that noone would benefit from.

Look at the criticisms of Congress and the Bush administration as a whole and don't just go on the look out for some proof that its so biased around here....because when you blind yourself to that perspective, of course that's all you will find.

[edit on 13-6-2006 by Jamuhn]

Mod Edit: BB Code, Spaces.


[edit on 13/6/2006 by Mirthful Me]

My fear is that the present administration's policies will bring the US to ruin. I just read that Bush has created a larger deficit than all previous President's combined. If inflation runs rampant the middle class stands to lose the most. Having a pre-emptive nuclear policy can't be good. The amount of money being spent on weapons development is foolish. How much overkill is needed? The fact that the 2000 election was forever tarnished by the Supreme Court certainly has led to unrest. Torture is a war crime, the fact that this administration is composed of war criminals doesn't help. Vietnam was just a blip, this is the real thing a Tsunami. Were we or were we not lied to? We can't survive 2 more years of Bush, he and his droogies will destroy America.

I don't believe SO was making his original statement as a one sided argument so much. Certainly not one to appeal to a , mainly , one-sided ATS reader forum. Granted I've seen many a thread started against the Bush administration , but I always see the "other side" of the threads through our multi-faceted readers. And I certainly appreciate everyones views. Now its only my thoughts , but he may have been going on everything the current , admin supporting , talking heads have been trying to cram down our throats. Any time I hear or see someone speaking against them , they all scream out "Why do you hate our troops?" or "'that person' must be anti-american." To be un-biased you must see both sides , and honestly the 'Hannity and Colmes' 's or 'Bill ORielly' 's are always trying to call out the VERY low blows of "Anti-American" or "Pro-Terrorist" or even "Against or Troops." It is saturated into the public daily and it is getting really old. All of you trying to throw SO under the bus now that he is just pointing out the obvious , take a look at your "voices." They're trying to push this on us.....if its true...I must be Anti-American too. And here I thought I was extremely patriotic all this time. They have the media , all we have is the internet. Guess I better go watch OReilly or Neil Cavuto and shut up.

Ariakan

P.S.
Beautiful Interview Springer , Thank you for (once in the past 6 years) representation we can appreciate.

i loved that post SO

(especially the last paragraph)...

Originally posted by Jamuhn
DE, I like you, but give me a break. I was screaming on these boards after reading about all the calls for genocide in the Middle East and hatred based on nationality/ethnicity, and guess what? It was said to be within the T&C and their freedom of speach. Only when people disagree do they make a fuss, and claim things like...

This is why people say there's a left wind blowing.

If you want that kind of vitriol to stop, ask for it to stop for everyone. As I see it now, people only want it to stop for the topics they are most sensitive to.

Yeah, I remember those 'Field of Glass' threads too, and I objected then too. I 'make a fuss' whenever I see it, and the issue is that I'm seeing it a lot. Except now it's directed at America, which seems to make it 'okay'.

Everyone's causes are their own, and they aren't going to change. Subz isn't going to wake up one day and support Israel. Ol' Winchester's not gonna be screaming for gun control, ever. Nothing will change, at least until we change. Me telling folks to stop advocating genocide isn't gonna help. But that's why we're here, isn't it?

DE

Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger.

-- Herman Goering

www.snopes.com... You might want to read this

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[edit on 13/6/2006 by Mirthful Me]

Originally posted by Gools
...The Symphony of Conspiracies is playing in the background, can you hear it?

Gools: Your entire post is a work of art!!!!! Well said....and point well taken. My hat's off to you.

Seeing as your foundation (JFK) has been proven to be conspiracy free. The conspiracy house you've built is nothing but a weak house of cards.

Apoc, when was JFK proven conspiracy-free?

I never got that memo...

If this is a Conspiracy site then where are all the conspiracy threads? I see many threads, but not many actual conspiracy theories. Mostly what I see on ATS are personal opinions about a huge variety of subjects. People just seem to write whatever comes to mind, without ever really thinking about it or seemingly seeing the way that what they write fits into the larger world picture. Sometimes you just want to scream at them to stop. Many of the threads seem to me to be no more than delusional ramblings by illogical minds. Some however are entertaining and a few actually present thoughtful topics for discussion. It is those few that make the site worthwhile from my personal perspective.

I have found a significant portion of the posters on ATS to be thoughtful, concerned individuals who seem to really care about where the world at large is heading and how it may get there. I also see a lot of humor within the ATS postings and a lot of sarcasm. Whatever it is I see, I tend to find it attracts me like a moth to an open flame. I can't stay away, I just have to see what new ideas have popped into the heads of everyone. Most of the regular posters are fairly predictable and come at things from a direction consistent with their world views. Every now and then though you run into completely original thinking that makes you pause and think.

I also find that many posters have a breadth of interests that fascinates me. You only rarely get to see the less public aspects of their personalities because they just don't talk about them much, but when you do, they reveal a passion for some things that drive you to have to rethink that person. Those are the moments that bring you back again and again and again.

Originally posted by Jamuhn

Originally posted by WestPoint23However what I have seen here on ATS is members posting ideas and conclusions without backing them up and without supporting them, claiming this is a conspiracy site and that its their right to post ideas and act as if they’re true without proving them.

You must not have been looking around that much then. Most of the criticism of the administration stems directly from either news articles, television programs, papers, books, etc. etc. Honestly, it seems like you are trying to make it sound as if there are no valid criticisms of the administration.

News articles like those released by truthout.org? You are ignoring the claims by many of a "police state" and a "dictatorship", which are nothing but pure emotion, backed up by nothing but feelings, yet are staunchly defended as "facts" here.

Even the threads featured on the front page about "The Bush Rodeo" and "The Police State is Here" stemmed directly from news publishings and documented pictures.

Yet those slide shows stayed on the front page for weeks on end. I have never seen a comparable pro-Bush or pro-military headline or slide show posted on the front page here. Why is that, do you think? Is that an example of where "anti-American" equals "super patriot", like we are being told?

To deny that there is anti-Bush bias here at all levels is to embrace ignorance.

Sure, you can pick out what a couple of members wrote buried down on page 7 of some obscure thread like jso did,

Are you saying that it is not worth mention unless it is a thread title? Well, how about this one?

Oh How Sweet It is! To be Rich, a Republican and White! Hmm?

politics.abovetopsecret.com...

As I stated, I could find many similar examples. Yet this thread is dedicated to a one-sided view, attempting to paint the other side as less-holier-than-me.

Originally posted by Astronomer70I also see a lot of humor within the ATS postings and a lot of sarcasm.

That gets me alot too. I hate it because its still insulting but you cant really report it or anything to that extent. Some posts are just loaded to the brim with it and I feel like they cant get in trouble for it. Even though if they say everything good, they are just being sarcastic. Its like saying all these really mean and useless things...without actually saying them. But yea I hear you on this. I see it all the time and its completely disrespectful.

Anyway back to finish reading this thread, I just felt that needed addressing.

Divide And Conquer

The political divide in the United States is deliberate, contrived and crafted to assure absolute control by a small power elite.

The balance between Democrats and Republicans is carefully controlled, and tilted in one direction or another as suits the needs of the nation's rulers.

"Perception management" and "public diplomacy" are some of the buzzwords used to describe the process of disseminating information carefully calculated to induce the desired effect on public opinion.

The power over thought achieved through the manipulation of mass media is stunning. Having given up TV years ago, I can see plainly how it affects the way people think and behave.

But TV isn't the only medium controlled.

Between The Lines

Any source of "news" represents a control point for public opinion, and though there is some degree of influence which comes from the media organizations themselves, the real power comes from the "content creators" which draw almost exclusively on government, big business and political NGOs for the actual sources of information.

The media spotlight moves where those who manipulate it choose to point it. In response, millions of people switch from thinking about one subject (fed to them by mass media) to the next (also fed to them by the mass media).

The power elite decide what we should be talking about -- and thinking about -- and make it so.

Meanwhile, as the public talks about -- what is it this week? Immigration? Or Haditha? -- the fat cats go on about their business with little or no public scrutiny.

Ironically, it seems that most of the "anti-U.S." information which appears in the media comes from none other than the U.S. government itself.

Why? I can only speculate, but I suspect it is because this sort of information serves to isolate the U.S. public from the rest of the world, which in turn makes it easier to control.

At least, that's what I see.

Maybe I'm wrong.

God Bless The Government?

As for being "anti-American" for criticizing the U.S. government, the day that's actually true, America can no longer be considered free.

"When the government fears the people, you have liberty. When the people fear the government, you have tyranny." --Thomas Jefferson

Which do we have today?




Also posted to my blog

[edit on 6/14/2006 by Majic]

Originally posted by jsobecky
I have never seen a comparable pro-Bush or pro-military headline or slide show posted on the front page here. Why is that, do you think?

If you can author a quality thread that is pro-Bush and/or pro-military that is worthy of given special attention on a conspiracy theory website, we'd certainly consider it.

Certainly, ATS topics have evolved beyond the core of conspiracy theory and government secrets into a broad spectrum of "alternative topics". However, our core draw and primary focus has always been, and will likely always be related to conspiracy theory. As such, conspiracy theorists will always be critical of any administration.