Hamas Vows Qassam Offensive!

New developments in this situation are that Israeli officials are rejecting Palestinian accusations that an Israeli artillery round was to blame for the beach incident.

An official Israeli inquiry, meanwhile, concluded Israel was not responsible for the blast that killed eight Gaza beachgoers Friday, rejecting Palestinian accusations that an Israeli artillery round was to blame.

Abbas accused Israel of "state terrorism," and the Islamic Jihad militant group vowed to avenge the death of its chief rocket launcher, Hamoud Wadiya.

Originally posted by pavil
I think he was refering to this: 1948 War

The nation of Israel still exists inspite of the 1948, 1967 and 1973 wars.

With all due respect, I dont think he was talking about defending the land.

He specifically said the demand for land

Originally posted by Nygdan
the inane demand for land without being willing ot pay for it in the standard currency, blood.

Israel and the Zionists didnt demand any land after they were assigned their share of Palestine in the 1947 UN General Assembly vote. They most certainly didnt pay "the standard currency, blood" for it either.

So why should the Palestinians have to pay with their blood for something the Zionists were given with by a vote? The stark contrast of what Nygdan believes and reality is precisely why this problem is almost impossible to reconsile peacefully. Some people just dont get it.

Some of us DO get it... and you don't seem to like being taken to task for your blatant anti-Semitism.

Not to mention, not really having an interest in the truth, just your blatant partisanship.

BTW, your nonresponse to my last post didn't go unnoticed...

Originally posted by golemina
Some of us DO get it... and you don't seem to like being taken to task for your blatant anti-Semitism.

Not to mention, not really having an interest in the truth, just your blatant partisanship.

BTW, your nonresponse to my last post didn't go unnoticed...

Im calling you out here, how am I anti-semitic? How am I partisan? You're not going to get away with blatant lies here. Prove your accusations, your reputation is on the line here buddy.

I'm just SO sick of this endless moronic feud.

Both sides should put ANYONE who breaks the peace in prison for the greater good of all.

Of course they don't see it that way, but that's my opinion.

Just imagine if the Native American Indians were to rise up and demand what is absolutely rightfully
theirs?

This endless bickering needs to come to a screechng halt.

In my opinion they bring all this violence upon themselves.

They need to STOP and let their children live in peace.

It appears the biggest mistake happened after World War 1 when the League of Nations granted France and Britain many mandates of land when the Ottoman Empire was defeated. The land should have been given to the native citizens and they should have been entitled to independance. Instead this land was given to a foreign power, and then they split the land in two and gave half of it to mroe foreigners.

Unfortunately I just do not see the Jewish people ever giving up Israel, and I do not see the Palestinians ever giving up the fight for their homeland back. Which is kind of amazing, most societies would eventually become tired and weary of prolongued war lasting close to a century after they realize they are vastly outpowered and cannot move anywhere.

I think the only solution now is to make Israel the 51st state of America so that we can actually justify all the money which is given them FREE, and then use anti-terror laws to bring any kind of instability in such a small territory to a screeching halt with our vastly superior military, intelligence, and propoganda. Once all the warlords are kicked out, arrested, or killed the innocent civilians can finally enjoy the ability to travel in peace, have a quick meal at McDonalds, and buy all of their daily goods at a local Wal-Mart.

Before you go on about backlash and citing Iraq as an example, the Gaza Strip and the West bank are tiny fractions of land in relation to Iraq. It would be like bringing stability to a land the size of Vermont or something. That should not be difficult at all.

Hey seriously Subz... You don't think we are really going to let this thread degenerate that way do you?



Let's try to stick to the issues. I've outlined them fairly succinctly in the last two posts.

So as to not totally ignore you and to try to give some context to your outcries...

It becomes 'partisan' Subz when your bias becomes as unabashedly pronounced as your posts seem to come across...

It becomes 'anti-Semitic' when you cap your mostly unfounded pronouncements with pointed euphemisms such as Zionists, etc...

Really... Go reread yourself.



I can really understand why you would want to take this veer instead of answering SO simple a question...

Why can't the 'Palestinians' feed themselves?

It's time to grow up and recognize that reasoning people want to know why the 'Palestinians' can't seem to find a peaceful resolution to the problem the way their Egyptian and Jordanian brothers have.

Originally posted by golemina
It becomes 'anti-Semitic' when you cap your mostly unfounded pronouncements with pointed euphemisms such as Zionists, etc...

Really... Go reread yourself.

No, that doesnt cut it. When you try to paint me as an anti-semite you are implying I am racist. You are not going to get away with that as far as I am concerned. Do you see me calling you a racist because you criticise the Palestinians? Should I infer you hate Arabs? I dont need to stoop to that level to argue my point.

Zionists are not a race, they are not a religion they are an ideological group that true Jews consider heretical. Zionists can be Christian, Atheist or Muslim. I seriously would recommend you read Jews Against Zionism.

Although there are those who refuse to accept the teachings of our Rabbis and will continue to support the Zionist state, there are also many who are totally unaware of the history of Zionism and its contradiction to the beliefs of Torah-True Jews.

Im not trying to veer off in any direction, if I let you get away with painting me as a racist (which I most definately am not) then I would lose any credibility so to continue this debate would be futile.

I AM NOT ANTI-SEMITIC

Originally posted by golemina
Why can't the 'Palestinians' feed themselves?

I have already answered your question golemina. The Palestinians and the Israelis have been engaged in a conflict for nearly 50 years now. The Israelis have received $85 billion from the United States in the form of direct aid and low interest loans. The Israelis receive one third of the United States annual foreign aid budget when it is the worlds 16th richest nation.

Since Hamas was democratically elected the Palestinians receive no financial aid from the United States. Israel is illegally withholding tax funds which are rightfully Palestinian and the EU has substantially curtailed its funding of the Palestinian Authourity. Not to mention that the once ruling Fatah party was corrupt from the top down for decades, this is why they were replaced with Hamas.

This is why Palestinians are in poverty. They are fighting a protracted struggle that would of come to a conclusion decades ago if Israel was not being continually funded by the United States. I defy you to show me ANY country that could fight a 50 year conflict with no substantial resources and still manage to prosper.

[edit on 15/6/06 by subz]

Subz. That one doesn't understand (total) BS.



>This is why Palestinians are in poverty. They are fighting a protracted struggle that would of come to a conclusion decades ago if Israel was not being continually funded by the United States. I defy you to show me ANY country that could fight a 50 year conflict with no substantial resources and still manage to prosper.

That sounds remarkedly like an EXCUSE... And a pathetic one at that.

'Palestinians' are not prospering simply because they are hate-filled warmongers.

Poverty is NOT a lack of money, as you would so simplistically try to imply.

Poverty is a state of mind.

The cornerstone of poverty is the type of 'thinking' you would sell to us in this thread.

It starts something like this...

I can not do (this) because (they).

That is the type of 'thinking' ALL failures in ALL societies on the face of this planet employ. Thinking people immediately see thru this and identify it as the core problem of why the 'Palestinians' are such a failure.

It comes down to several lowest type common demoninators Subz.

You are what you do.

Prosperous people behave differently than poor people. You don't have to look any farther than right next door to the 'Palestinians' to the Israelis.

Prosperity is a state of mind. It's building things. It's adding value to everything you see and do. It's working and getting together with like-minded people to do things on a larger scale... Then on an even larger scale... And then an even larger scale.

Those are quite simply the basics of building families, homes, communities... AND NATIONS.

On your 'anti-semitism'... I stand by my comments.

You can dance on as many heads of as many needles as much as you want...

It's not a religion... It's not a race... It's not a...

You are STILL an anti-semite.

Do you hear yourself? Do you see the message you are delivering to others?

It's quite frankly got to do with your blind hatred... Your fanning the flames of misunderstanding and hatred...

THAT is something you will have to resolve for yourself.

Meanwhile... Let's get back to basics!

golemina: Why can't the 'Palestinians' feed themselves?
Subz: I have already answered your question golemina.

What you have done Subz is 'answer' the question.



Thinking people want real answers... Use real communication... Put forth real solutions...

Why can't the 'Palestinians' feed themselves?

I can't speak for you Subz, but I can't help but think the ANSWER to this question might start with something like the advice I would give to the 'Palestinians' and it might go like this...

Hey guys! I've got an idea. Today, instead of making more Qassam assemblies... Let's start making greenhouse starter kits... We can start slow. A little less Qassams, a little more greenhouses... Our slogan can be Strike a real blow for Palestine, feed your family! What do you think guys?



Hey that approach might work for YOU Subz!

A little less hate, a little more answers... REAL ANSWERS.

I would not even lisen to golemina subz its obvious he is an anti-arab. It sounds to me like your just trying to make excuses for Israels corrupt politicians.

Look as an American, I do not like that my tax dollars are helping another nation whos legal claim over certain territories is questionable, and are continuously destroying and hurting and persecuting another people, especially considering the history of the persecutors. I really do not like hearing your anti-palestinian hate-garbage and making up poor excuses to justify the corrupt actions of the accused state.

I say Israel either becomes the 51st state of America and get our money properly, or cut off funding to them completely.

Originally posted by DYepes
I would not even lisen to golemina subz its obvious he is an anti-arab. It sounds to me like your just trying to make excuses for Israels corrupt politicians.

Thanks DYepes, good advice

I didnt even bother reading that last post past the first paragraph. What a waste of time

Thinking people can see EXACTLY the nature of these recent exchange of viewpoints.

It's really no skin off my nose if you want to blindly support a peoples behavior that don't seem to want to be part of the civilized world, refuse to be accountable for those behaviors and blindly try to peddle a recounting of events that simply doesn't fit the facts or what transpires on a day to day basis.

And now you seek the last refuge of supporters of/apologists for terrorism you attack the character of anyone who doesn't parrot your unsupportable and unconsciousable positions.

I'm sorry. You will have to point out where exactly where I somehow gave you the impression I cared about your hate-filled message and your hate-mongering opinion(s)...



>A little less hate, a little more answers... REAL ANSWERS.

Yeah, that certainly screams 'anti-Arab'. It's really sad when I, who oppose the current situation, seem to care more about the 'Palestinians' welfare, than you who are their 'supporters'...

Sure... Much easier to dance to... has a good beat...

And remarkably STILL no answers.



Do we have an ATS 'warmongers' award... I'd certainly like to give the two of you my vote.

Well its been a couple of days and I have not heard of any news on Israel being attacked. It seems the two differing parties are attempting to simply reconcile their differences in order to prevent a civil war. considering the events which have come to pass between Fatah and Hamas, I can see why they are trying to calm things down. I personally hope they manage to work things out so they can get back to work on how to help the civilians again.

I just do not understand why the UN can not send even a contingousy force of Id say about 3,000 peacekeepers to the West bank and Gaza. They can be there to fight of any of the terrorist threats, as well as make sure Israel is not really doing any of the unprovoked and unjustified attacks it is being alleged to have commit.

Then maybe we can get resolution to turn Israel into an American state, it pretty much already reaps some of the benefits with little responsibility. I do not even see why we stoppedd adding states to the union anyways. We make Mexico into a state after a little bit of welfare reform and BAM we got ourselves a huge new chunk of tax revenue. Same with Israel.

Am I in the wrong forum? I don't see any fantasy type captions...

If we were to cross back into the reality zone, an analysis might approximate something along the following lines.

Hamas announced they were going to go on this yada yada Qassam offensive... In true 'Palestinian' freedom fighter fashion, bailed out when they were clued in to what the repercussions were truly going to cost the Hamas leadership.

Pretty funny when you actually think about... Got scared and have basically stopped.

So can we call that the end of this Qassam War of 2006?

How would you guys score it?

Another stunning Arab victory?



I'm sorry... I really shouldn't laugh. They are doing the best they can!

Maybe Hamas should take on someone they can handle. Do the Israelis have any organizations like the boy scouts?

Doesn't this strike anyone else as simply bizarre... Such as immense reservoir of pure hate. But easily exceed by sheer ineptitude.

I don't know... Maybe we are finally getting to the root of the problem? It might just be me, but if my 'resistance fighters' were this laughable... maybe, just maybe, I would start thinking about making greenhouses and feeding my family and neighbors...

Either that or take up knitting...

Hey not wanting to stir up any trouble or anything but I just wondered

WHAT IF??????????

The UN granted a stretch of premium territory...say..California to say.... The moonies.Who then proclaimed independence and started expanding their borders..

What would the american public say??
Not in my backyard perhaps????

Not even gonna mention the slaughter and genocide of the real native American indians

Personally, I would fight tooth and nail and probably teach the children to never forgive or forget what they began and to continue to fight to teach the invaders you don't just do what you want.

Would try to do something somehow rational... You know!.. Like Egypt or Jordan.

When you ask a question as to why there isn't a sudden outbreak of peace in dealing with the Israeli/'Palestinian' question...

And you get quoted from something that happened in the 40's...

You pretty much have your answer.

Citing Agen_T's example:

Ahh I see. So what your saying is when These hypothetical people are given California, and then try to expand into Nevada and Oregon, and then Washington and Arizona try to help them drive away the new guys, we should just let them have Nevada and Oregon for the sake of peace? Perhaps we should just let them have everything West of the Mississippi as well and betray our bretheren for the sake of peace?

There will come a time in this century I believe when Israel will no longer be a Jewish state, and I would be happy to welcome the refugees into this country. They just better not try to establish a homeland here and illegally expand their borders.

IMO it seems those who just want the Palestinians to sit back and take what they are granted are pretty much asking to forget what happened in the middle of the last century that began the whole mess. Like just take peace, accept this little bit of land and forget how it got this way. Thats just how I percieve it. Cuz it aint really easily forgiven when you think about how it went down, which is probably why they continue to fight. I suppose prolongued propoganda will eventually be able to make the Palestinians more docile sooner or later.