Mysterious Numbers On Young Women's Foreheads

Faces

Hey everybody, Nick here. I got this lot of slides about three years ago and I've never been able to figure out just what is going on. There are about 50 slides in all- all dating from between 1959 and 1969 and all of young women. Some, like the ones here have letters written on their foreheads, others have press type with their names on it affixed to either their temples or foreheads. Were the slides taken by a dermatologist or plastic surgeon or were these young women part of some now forgotten experiment. In less than fifty years these slides have gone from most likey being unambiguous data for some medical study to being a complete mystery.

*Addendum*
While if push comes to shove I'd probably agree with those of you who've suggested rhinoplasty I've added a couple more photos (the bottom two) which make me a bit skeptical. The two slides are of the same woman but taken 7 years apart- the first is dated 2/60 and the second 2/67. There are are few instances like this where the same young woman was photographed on more than one occasion which leads me believe these weren't just girls getting nose jobs.
swapatorium

Kind of freaky. Anyone have any good theories?

Definitely freaky. Some look like they were actually scratched into their skin, while others looked like they were drawn on with black marker.

After reading the rhynoplasty comment, and viewing the pics, I noticed that all or most of them had big or mis-shaped noses. Without anykind of information provided, that would be my bet. Although there is the problem that there doesn't seem to be anykind of uniform code among all the girls. Some are just two letters, some are letters with numbers below, etc. My first guess was that it was some way to keep track of who the girl in each photo was after it was developed. But if that were the case, why wouldn't they just hold up a sign like they do in mugshots or something like that?

This is definitely weird... Keep us posted!

Yeah that's weird. But like the guy above me said it looked like they may have been getting nose jobs considering their noses were kinda big (not that I'm exactly for cosmetic surgery).

After reading the article the author doesn't state where he got the slides from. I don't know if its the age of the slides or what but I don't think the women are from America. Just a personal observation
peace

is it just me, or do they all look Jewish?

I know they sometimes mark prisoners like that, until they can identify them later, but the backdrop looks too fancy. And the last two pics look like the same girl.

one more thing as well, all these girls would of been born just after the finish of the second world war, could it be that they are the product of nazi experiments on jewish women during the war?..........just a thought

Originally posted by Beacon
one more thing as well, all these girls would of been born just after the finish of the second world war, could it be that they are the product of nazi experiments on jewish women during the war?..........just a thought

thats what i was thinking looking at the photos, im sure i read somewhere that people were marked with letters etc ( i think it was mainly the jewish community) i could be wrong though

Girls getting nosejobs? What are you smoking, rasputin? Big mishappen noses? Not that I noticed. Their noses looked very normal and proportinate to their faces. Some of the girls were very pretty. Only a couple looked Jewish. Most looked like your typical white person of the time.

Its also worth remembering that back during the time when these photos were taken, we did not have the obsession with perfection and plastic surgery we have today. Nose jobs were an oddity even in Hollywood, and virtually unheard of amongst the rest of the population, especially young females such as these, who all appear to come from working class families who would be unlikely to spend money on something so frivolous.

I must admit the pics are a bit creepy. Look at the way the girls expressions are held. Like they are either drugged, dazed, or mindless. Some look a bit startled.

Maybe it is some sort of experiment?

Weird stuff, and a good find curme. I am truly puzzled!

Not being from the time of the pictures. I noticed that none of the women appear to be wearing ear rings. Is that significant in any way? ( prob. not)
cerme, how did you obtain these?Is there a back story?

This pictures are very strange in my opinion.

I don´t think that they having a problem with their nose.
You have to concern the time when the pictures are taken and they are to young in my opinion for medical studies of noses.

The girls are looking bored or depressed, but it seems to me, if they are under drugs or downers.
Their gaze is very scary!

The most oddity are the numbers written on their forehads.
If it would really be for medical purposes, they were really bloody amateurs.

My thoughts:

1. The Felt marker

- With a felt marker? Not a very nice solution!
- Why on the forehead instead of a label or a paper.
- Why not using a polaroid camera? (They already exist in 1959)

2. Why are the written numbers so different?

- Sometimes only used two letters which could be initals.
- The number 661 seems so be a continious numbering.
- What about the 1961 number? Is it a year or as 661 a continious numbering?
- Why are in some cases only letters and in other cases letters and numbers?
- Why are the letters so different in size / position?
- In one case the letters covered partly by hair, and is difficult to read (IO? / JO?)
- Why not using consequently continuing numbers? (Two letters are not enough and safe to identify a lager group.)

3. Backdrop

- Why is the backdrop dark and of changing color?
- Wouldn´t they use a light and clean backdrop, if the pictures are for documentary purposes?

4. Angle / Perspective

- Why is so much space wasted by the backdrop, if they took it really to document something?
If they used the numbers on the forehead to economize wasted space why then choosen such silly perspectives sometimes?
- Why are the perspectives so different?
- No profile views?

The questions I asked are only to show you my thoughts, if I would take medical photographs.
I would be interested in seeing more of the 50 pictures.
I can´t imagine that this pictures satisfy any scientist.
Not today and not in the 60'.

Very interresting!

Polylux

[edit on 11-6-2006 by Polylux]

i wouldnt mind seeing the rest of the photos, that way at least we get a better perspective of them all, and maybe come up with some new theories

Here's my guess. It was a large school or church group picture or something. One pic was taken of each girl with their initials on their forheads with a make-up stick (?) or something easily washed off, in order for the developer to know which girl is which when sending out the prints and negatives....

Why the number? Maybe there was more than one girl with the same initials?

Notice the last pic has no number and she is looking like you would normaly for a school picture. Also the clothes they are wearing and the background seem more fitting for a school picture than an experiment.



[edit on 11/6/2006 by ANOK]

Originally posted by ANOK
One pic was taken of each girl with their initials on their forheads with a make-up stick (?) or something easily washed off, in order for the developer to know which girl is which when sending out the prints and negatives....

Sounds good. But over a period of 10 years?

Originally posted by ANOKNotice the last pic has no number and she is looking like you would normaly for a school picture. Also the clothes they are wearing and the background seem more fitting for a school picture than an experiment.

Nice idea, but between the last two pictures are seven years difference.
A little bit to long for making photos of a class.

Polylux

[edit on 12-6-2006 by Polylux]

Actualy they were 7 years apart.

Maybe the pics were from different schools, middle then high school?

If this was some kind of experiment why the nice clothes and nice background?
They are not wearing everyday casual here, or hostpital gowns.
And why would they bother with a backdrop?

One of the commentators on teh blog made a good point, they're slides, not prints from film. Why would any reseacher make slides? If you were making a study, you'd probably want prints.

A researcher might use slides for when he makes a presentation or a lecture. But 50?

It might be an art project, but they aren't good quality photos, considering the tint from the lighting on some of them.

I don't but that they are all rhinoplasty patients, there is nothing wrong with all their noses and nothing similar with all their noses.



Hell, whatever it is, it seems to have turned into a nice experiment on what peopel are thinking, a sort of rorshach test, just look at the variety of opinions expressed in teh blog.

* Government was always doing some sort of secret
*think they're all alien/human hybrids
*unwed mothers or orphans
*They all look nicely dressed and have nice hair... maybe an indication of wealth.
*Ivy league schools used to take photos of incoming students nude [...] indicting intelligence and/or other attributes
* indicting intelligence and/or other attributes
* variation of an Ash Wednesday ritual
*think they're all related, like a family. An experiment? Mabey this blog, itself is an experiment?
*the real answer is probably way less interesting than what we're all coming up with.

Etc etc.

THis one is intersting

I remember seeing an entire catelogue (1,000+ pics) of people with felt marker letters on their foreheads in the closet of my old biology class. It was dated around the same time and was used to discern genetic traits (eyes, nose, cheek featurs). This may be a piece or even a different collection

MIght explain why slides, you can have a class, project the images, discuss/test/etc. As for why write on their heads, well, either way, this person is saying it was done in the instance they were familiar with.

And whatever it is, it must be weird, because the last two at the moment are the same woman (marked JS), with some time inbetween the photos. Interesting that she wouldn't be marked the second time around (or whatever time it was). Maybe it was such a nuissance that they would get marked again?
BUt where is the identifying material in the second photo then? If the marks serve a purpose, why isn't that purpose necessary any longer??


One medic noted that there's nothing wrong with their noses. Then another said the last two (JS) are before and after and the after has what he calls 'stigmata' or marks of rhinosplasty of that era. Another even simply states

These are indeed rhinoplasty studies. The practice of placing identity marks, in this case initials, was not that uncommon in that era.

In fact I have a number of slides like this myself in my medical collection. Although, usually for facial surgies the subject would just hold a sign.

However this person's blogger profile doesn't say that he is a dr, rather a collector of the 'weird'. Might be just as good as a doctor in this case!

Seems to settle it. Bit of a question as to why the second JS photo seems to be from such a different time though. And some of them just look way too young to be getting rhinoplasty.


None of the ideas presented account for all the facts.

Quick indexing for a group photo, but why a follow up seven years later, and by the same photographer? Before and After surgery? Surgery for what, they are all normal looking individuals. And remember, we are only seeing a small portion of the 50 that are there.

And as far as them looking creepy, any photos of marked people look creepy. They're all relatively normal peopel of a moderately wide age range.

Nygdan, you asked why a researcher would want slides - I have an answer.

You can't makes prints from prints. You can make prints from slides, which is why the photographers I've known got their photos in slides. It's a fair bit more expensive, but the pictures turn out better, and you can produce a practically unlimited number of copies without losing any image quality.

And of course they're much more durable than negative strips, they're easier to store safely, and they can be used in presentations on the fly.

I think it's a pretty safe bet that they're rhinoplasty pictures - but it is sort of creepy. They look like lambs to the slaughter.

Yeah, I'm leaning torwards it being on slides for ease of presentation to a group. BUT, that seems to go against the rhinoplasty, to a degree. I don't know if it was standard practice for doctors to use slides in preference to negatives at those times though.

I think they made slides for showing them in a projector.
Probably for teaching purposes in a class of medical students or seminars perhaps.

But what the heck wrote they the numbers and letters on their head.
They demonstrated not very much respect to these kids.

The most interesting for me ist the circumstance that they are so inconsequent with the markings.
Sometimes Numbers, sometimes letters, sometime both mixed, sometimes ... nothing.

That doesn`t add up.

P0lylux

[edit on 14-6-2006 by Polylux]