My new and first gun!

Originally posted by scepticsteve
vinrock, are you so cowardly that you would not consider living somewhere where you could not own a gun?

Someone was also saying that most shootings occur among criminals, does that mean that you believe they deserve to die because they have fallen into a criminal lifestyle?

No - I choose to own whatever firearm I desire without having to explain myself or give a reason to own it to anyone. I would not want to live in a country where that sort of liberty is not guaranteed because of uneducated fears. The fact that I desire something and have a means to acquire it is enough reason.

Unfortunately, there are people like you abroad who are so cowardly they couldn't trust me or even their own neighbor to posess a pistol rather than rifle simply because 'that person has no reason to'.

We're Big Boys over here and we watch over ourselves - you're letting Big Brother watch over you.

Originally posted by GrOuNd_ZeRoHey Vinrock, how much are you selling that Glock for? I might have a friend that is interested...well if you are expecting childeren that is...

[edit on 6/10/2006 by GrOuNd_ZeRo]

Sorry brother - when I said 'passing on' I mean one day I plan on giving this to my own kid and keeping it in the family.

[edit on 10-6-2006 by vinrock]

Look you guys have valid arguements. I'm not trying to silence anyones views, and i am not afraid to change my mind.

However it is my personal opinion that few people living in civilised countries such as the US are under enough threat from others to justify owning a deadly weapon that is so simple to use it can be used quickly, effectively, and perhaps without full realisation of the consequences.

Orangetom do you not feel that if handguns were banned the intruder would be less likely to be armed? Im not gonna be naive, of course a black market would exist but so to does it in the UK and armed robberies on personal property are exceptionally rare. To be honest If an armed robber came into my house i would get the hell out, gun or not. I dont see how the homeowner having a gun gives him more than a 50/50 chance against an armed intruder anyway.

Vinrock, how can you bring trust into it? Surely the majority reason for Gun ownership in the US is for protection. That implies a distinct lack of trust in the Police, neighbours or anyone really. Perhaps I do count on Big Brother to watch over me. But thats what they are there for I pay taxes, I vote and deserve the protection of my great nation. You say you choose to own a firearm without having to explain your reasons to anyone, but dont forget this is deadly weapon and do you really think everyone should be able to. Surely you agree there are disturbed individuals on this planet, they may not have been convicted of a crime, so therefore like you they are free to buy whatever firearm they wish. After all you cannot have these rights for some and not for others. You may wish to risk unsafe individuals owning firearms so that you can feel free and like a "big boy" but personally i would like to do all i can to limit such relaxed attitudes and seemingly pointless ownership. I believe it is in the constitution that you have the right to bare arms. So presumably this means you are allowed by law to own nuclear weapons among other things? Do you also believe that everyone should be allowed to own one, without explanation or stringent restrictions simply because
it is there right?

Feel free to argue back, i'm sure you will. But unless you have anything original to say dont anticipate changing my views.

I really do believe you were educated in public schools. You definitely have the public school fingerprint.

You posted:

"Orangetom do you not feel that if handguns were banned the intruder would be less likely to be armed? "

Now here is what a intelligent thinking person asks.

"Orangetom do you not feel that if handguns were banned the intruder is less likely to break into your home and take your posessions and or threaten/frighten your family??"

This is the kind of question that intelligent self thinking people ask. Not the question you posted. Public School conditioning makes one post the question you asked. There are people here in America who went to public schools but have managed to get over it.

You do not come before self taught thinking people with the concept that after you have been burgularized and your family frightened, posessions taken, the police will be along to take data to support the need for more police to take data and politicians to be elected/reelected to take more data to support more reelection on the premise they will also take more data!! Got the point???

I never count on the premise or assumption that the police or government will protect me or my family...no matter how many taxes I pay. They primarily take data...ex post facto. Ever notice that many people with real moneys or influence dont count on the police for protection..they hire protection..or have it provided by their companys?? What does this tell you about the protection capabilities of the local constabulary?? Think this through carefully!!

Good Grief...SkepticSteve. This is "My Home" not the intruders home. Do you even understand what that means??? These are my properties. Neither myself, my home, nor my propertys are expendable or disposable items for the purpose of the body politic. We are not cattle here in America though I believe that with enough public school feel good education we will be after following the European Models.

SkepticSteve...I build Nuclear Aircraft carriers and Submarines for a living. I take serious risks at times for my moneys or for the propertys which I have acquired.
Do not ever attempt to diminish my value in this world and the risks I take for my moneys/propertys with such a public school feel good sentiment when I know what I will have to go through ..again...a second time..to replace my stolen or damaged propertys. Thinking people know the difference. This technique is how the world is turned upside down...and right is now wrong and wrong is now right.

There are Americans here who are not drama queens such that we have to dramatize with a example that everyone should own a nuclear weapon to feel safe. We dont give makeovers for such drama techniques.

For the record SkepticSteve....I've stood close enough to highly enriched nuclear fuel to lick it with my toungue. Your worried about me with a firearm???....what on earth could you possibly be thinking??? Like I said..public school thinking....it has to be!!!

Sorry SkepticSteve.but thinking like yours is what really frightens me...

Does anyone else out here want to second that??

Thanks,
Orangetom

I had this debate with a guy named DonWhite.

One of the deadliest weapons and killers here in America is the operator of an automobile under the influence of alcohol/drugs. No problem with statistics bearing this out but politics are not wont to show this view when promoting their latest fear technique. Once again ..be careful what you think is a weapon. Thinking people know the difference.


Thanks,
Orangetom

I do not think crime will be reduced if handguns were banned, i just believe that the likelyhood of criminals being armed is less.

Perhaps Handguns are not the problems, perhaps it is attitudes, clearly you are very consious of your home being attacked. I am home owner, and to be honest I rarely thing about it, other than locking my door. After all Canada i understand has very similar gun laws to you but the number of deaths due to gun violence is a fraction. Perhaps a better thing to discuss would be why americans have such a paranoia.

I suppose you could argue that drink driving is a very dangerous weapon, perhaps as dangerous as a handgun. But one is illegal the other is not.

Anyway, i think this forum has strayed rather from the original topic, sorry G_Z didnt intend for this to become a debate on gun law, was just trying to simply air my views. My first post was two sentances, unfortunately its become rather more strung out..

First off I am not paranoid. I dont know what type of schooling has given you such a slanted view. I am territorial...there is a difference.

You see SkepticSteve...there are Americans here who believe in Private Property...we believe in the privateness of property..not the publicness of property. THis very awareness is what seperates us from much of this world and how this world works...or to view it another way ..how this world does not work.
We believe in the private ownership of property...not public ownership.

Once again you post concern for the criminal element....not the public or the private public who must earn the property. Your technique makes those who must assume risk to earn the property disposable and expendable for some European social view. The social view of which I speak is Private ownership of Property. This is a American Phenomonon.

One more thing...SkepticSteve...drink driving is not legal here. THe statistics on drinking and driving indicate a slaughter going on out here.

And Canada is changing rapidly with the influx of new foreigners not wont to keep the olde traditions. This is also happening in Austraulia, South Africa...and other nations where strict laws on guns are in force. All it is doing is making it impossible to own and protect private property...so why would anyone eventually want to own private property when the social tendency is for those who want someone elses private property to go shopping...daily.
All this anti gun laws do is enforce a body politic constantly reelected on the premise that they will protect you and your property. ...and they dont...they just speak on the subject.

The real laws are those written in a persons heart...not on pages or in government ledgers. This is what truely governs how a people will respond...firearm ownership or not.

Why on earth would any government want limits on them when they can transfer the limits to the public and unlimit themselves. This is the oldest scam in the history books. Who pays for public education SkepticSTeve?? Why would a government teach you any other stimulus or thought than what they want you to know or that to which they want you to respond.

Government is not and never was some kind of benevolent overseer looking out for us. The best government you can have is the least government you can have.
This is certainly not the case in Canada, Austraulia, UK or Europe. And this is not what is taught in public schools today paid for by government doles.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Originally posted by scepticsteve
Vinrock, how can you bring trust into it? Surely the majority reason for Gun ownership in the US is for protection. That implies a distinct lack of trust in the Police, neighbours or anyone really. Perhaps I do count on Big Brother to watch over me. But thats what they are there for I pay taxes, I vote and deserve the protection of my great nation. You say you choose to own a firearm without having to explain your reasons to anyone, but dont forget this is deadly weapon and do you really think everyone should be able to. Surely you agree there are disturbed individuals on this planet, they may not have been convicted of a crime, so therefore like you they are free to buy whatever firearm they wish. After all you cannot have these rights for some and not for others. You may wish to risk unsafe individuals owning firearms so that you can feel free and like a "big boy" but personally i would like to do all i can to limit such relaxed attitudes and seemingly pointless ownership. I believe it is in the constitution that you have the right to bare arms. So presumably this means you are allowed by law to own nuclear weapons among other things? Do you also believe that everyone should be allowed to own one, without explanation or stringent restrictions simply because
it is there right?

Feel free to argue back, i'm sure you will. But unless you have anything original to say dont anticipate changing my views.

You and I, we just don't see the same. Read the first few lines you opened up with - that the majority of U.S. citizens who posess firearms do so for the purpose of self defense and that you're happy with a government nanny to make whatever decision since you've paid for it.

I simply wouldn't want to live in a country like yours.

And what kind of retarted nonsense was that 'nuclear weapon' thing. Get your head out of your ass, it ain't working.

Your last posts simply show that you have merely skimmed through my posts, and once again are arguing the same old points. I keep an open mind, everyone of your posts witters on about "privateness of property" crap. Is my property more at risk because i dont have a gun? NO. And please stop going on about education, I make up my own mind, It seems to me that many people who are for guns simply block out all information to the contrary without thinking about it. I consider myself actually quite liberal, I am for fox hunting as well as other hunting, and please do not assume i have a rose tinted view of this world, I am not niave.

I think you are just proving my points with your repeated single minded posts. I'm bored now don't expect me to repost. There are more important things in life, it seems that gun ownership is a big part of yours.

[edit on 11-6-2006 by scepticsteve]

Hey Sceptic,

Just a few point's i'd like to stress here;

A part of owning a firearm is for self-protection and a healthy dose of paranoia of Neighbors, criminals/drug users and even our own government, owning a gun makes us equal to another person with a gun, without a gun we would be at their mercy and you can't outrun a bullet

Another part of it is Enthusiasm, sure it was originally designed for killing things but it's also use in sport like target shooting, plinking, hunting and some stuff in between, I personally admire firearms for their mechanics and functionality, it's an unique experience to shoot a gun, a feeling any airgun can't simulate for example.

I would NEVER use it on another human being unless my life or that of my family and friends is in absolute peril, I am a 100% responsible with my weapon and I see it very much as when I drive my car, I know how to drive responsible and I don't run over people just for fun, a car is potentionally more lethal than a gun, the only difference between a car and a gun is that a car was not DESIGNED to kill, even though it most definitly is used to kill.

It's not a weapon until you use it as a weapon.

on a slightly unrelated note, an ex-wife of my wife's cousin just died in a car crash leaving behind her current husband and her 3 kids, I am staying home with my wife since she is taking this hard...

Thanks everyone for the congratulations and thanks for the advice, hearing protection made my shooting session alot more enjoyable.

nice post G_Z, If nothing else im glad a few opinions have been aired here.

cheers guys

Originally posted by scepticsteve
nice post G_Z, If nothing else im glad a few opinions have been aired here.

cheers guys

Steve - GZ wrote out the point I was trying to make but was unable to. I'm just not as calm and collective as he is.

It was fun, I wish there was a forum here where we could beat each other up like this every once in a while.

Congrats again GZ.

Sorry olde man..but private property is an American Concept. The fact that you consider it crap is very telling to those of us who know differently. Once again ..I nor my property earned at great risk is subject to the kind of European thinking which worrys about a criminal element being armed..when the thinking should be that they shouldnt be coveting my property at all. This represents a huge quantum gulf in thinking. We are bloody yanks..not continentals. Sorry olde man.

By the way..most guns here are used for sport shooting or hunting. Seldom are they used for protection. On opening day of hunting season for deer there are noticable abscences of people at work who have saved thier vacation time for hunting season.
However ...when they are used for home or property protection ..this is seldome ever presented in the news in view of the sensationalism that shootings present for ratings in the media. Tabloid news sells as evidenced by your nuclear comment. Most of the time just the appearence of a firearm is sufficient to cause intruders to reconsider.

One more thing ..my sympathys are with the fox...I think it is very unsporting but if that is what they do in your country...no problem. I dont want to make you people into Yanks.

Thanks,
Orangetom

I think this arguement has been done to death now. Clearly were not going to see eye to eye, but If everyone thought the same the world would be a very boring place. I'm resisting the urge to go on a pro fox hunting rant, this is neither the time or the place.

Cheers for your imput

Thank you for the compliments.

I came to a concern I may need to contact the manufacturer for...but i'll ask it here anyway.

Is it safe to dry-fire my pistol without snap-caps? I get mixed opinions on this, all I know is that Glocks and 1911's can be dry fired safely...and after having examined the operation of my pistol I don't think it would hurt to dry fire it without snap-caps...

what is your opinion on dry-firing?

It's ok to dry-fire most modern semiautos

But don't dry fire older revolvers or shotguns, their "pins" may be damaged

Hell yeah, dry fire the heck out of it! It gives you more trigger control. Another thing... if you have a holster that you use with it... practice drawing your weapon and firing it .. over and over and over. Believe me, the more familiar you are with your gun, the better.

[edit on 12-6-2006 by thecandyman]

I hear these gun snobs saying stuff like: "You need snap caps otherwise you kill your firing pin! just look at rimfires, CZ-52's and SKS's, they all die when you don't dry fire it with a snap cap!".

Oh please, I contacted Hi-Point and they say it can be dry fired, 1911's can be dry fired, Glocks can be dry fired, however Taurus and Sig doesn't recommend dry firing...

thank you for the tips

Snapcaps/handling rounds are useful if you want to dry train magazine changes or clearing malfunctions (not needed, but they do allow the gun to be cycled safely)

Btw, what kind of a holster do you plan on using? and how many mags you got with the gun?

Originally posted by thecandyman
This is what I carry on my ankle:

I carry one of these in my thigh holster:

I'm tired of bums washing my windshield with dirty water and that seems to do the trick.

Peace