Dimethyltryptamine (DMT) = Alien Abduction?

I think it's most interesting to note how the history of what I think of as Type-II* abduction parallels the history of dissociative anesthetics. Betty and Barney Hill were snatched about the time the main line of benzodiazepines was being synthesized; the most nortorious, Ketamine, was commercially developed the year after they were abducted, but development was underway and continued throughout the 60s and continues today.

A quick look at Wikipedia brought up a fairly complete list of benzodiazepines, along with their duration of activity:

en.wikipedia.org...
The benzodiazepines are a class of drugs with hypnotic, anxiolytic, anticonvulsant, amnestic and muscle relaxant properties...used for short-term relief of severe, disabling anxiety or insomnia...
They are believed to act on the GABA receptor GABAA, the activation of which dampens higher neuronal activity. They began to be widely prescribed for stress-related ailments in the 1960s and 1970s.

* Triazolam (Halcion®) - 2 hours
* Midazolam (Versed®, Hypnovel®) - 3 hours (1.8-6 hours)
* Oxazepam (Serax®) - 4-15 hours
* Chlordiazepoxide (Librium®) - 5-25 hours
* Alprazolam (Xanax®) - 6-12 hours
* Temazepam (Restoril®) 8-20 hours
* Lorazepam (Ativan®) 10-20 hours
* Loprazolam (Dormonoct®) 10-20 hours
* Bromazepam (Lexotan®) 10-20 hours
* Estazolam (ProSom®) 10-24 hours
* Clobazam (Frisium®) 18 hours
* Flunitrazepam (Rohypnol®) 18-26 hours. Withdrawn from the market in some countries; considered a "date-rape drug"
* Clonazepam (Klonopin®, Rivotril®) 18-50 hours
* Nitrazepam (Mogadon®) 20-40 hours
* Quazepam (Doral®) 25-100 hours
* Clorazepate (Tranxene®) 36-100 hours
* Medazepam (Nobrium®) 36-150 hours
* Nordazepam (Madar®, Stilny®) 50-120 hours
* Prazepam (Centrax®) 36-200 hours
* Diazepam (Valium®) 36-200 hours
* Flurazepam (Dalmane®) 40-250 hours

We know the CIA was experimenting with pschoactives, including '___', since the beginning of the organization, back to the early 1940s. Heroin, marijuana, mescaline, cocain, and barbituates were all part of a concerted effort to develop a truth-serum. Surely benzodiazepines and other amnesia-inducing drugs were were on the menu.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*There seem to be two distinct types of abduction scenarios.

In what I think of as Type-II events, the event invariably begins with a classic UFO sighting, at night, in or around a rural area. The sighting is often accompanied by specific physiolgical markers: anxiety, drowsiness, a feeling of warmth. There are often electromagnetic effects: metal gets warm, electronic gear goes haywire, vehicles stop running. Sometimes the victim reports being followed by the UFO or reports multiple sightings. Sometimes the victim remembers meeting a creature, or more often, a person, who asks stupid/strange questions. Then comes a period of disjointed memories and/or amnesia. There's a lot of floating and moving from place to place in a dreamlike state. Some kind of medical examination is vaguely remembered. The victim often remembers being returned to the point of origin, but only dimly. Afterward, there can be a period of weakness, confusion, and recovery lasting several days. Some Type-II abductees later experience Type-I abductions.

What I think of as a Type-I abduction event is quite different. There's no initial UFO sighting, for instance. In fact, they most closely resemble religious epiphany; just replace the terms like "angel" or "devil" with "alien" and the reports are almost the same. These events must have a deep-rooted connection with the human psyche and arise from the human soul, and for now I leave them to the psychologists and philosophers.

I also think it's significant that UFO witnesses who suffer mysterious radiation effects -- hair loss, rash, burns, etc. -- usually aren't abducted.

I am so glad I found this thread.

Interestingly enough I came about finding the '___' wiki article myself while trying to figure out why certain substances were prosecuted under the drug classes they are. I had heard of Ayhuasca in the past, even recently watching an interesting movie called Altered States, where an Ayhuasca type drink allows a scientist to genetically revert to a more primal primate, but never really hearing that much about '___'.

So while on wikipedia, I looked at the page mentioned in the OP, but without researching '___' here at all. Reading the article, amongst other articles on Wikipedia about drugs, I found it very interesting that Dr. Rick Strassman's trials involving '___' included experiences by the users similar to alien abductions. I don't think the OP included the part under "speculatiuons" from the '___' Wikipedia Article:

Several subjects also reported contact with 'other beings', alien like, insectoid and reptilian in nature, in technological environments[4] where the subjects were 'probed', 'tested' and sometimes even 'manipulated' by these 'beings' (see Abduction phenomenon). However, it is important to note that Dr. Strassman's patients were given '___' in a hospital, under observation, while a probe was in their anus to record changes in body temperature.

I am not one to say whether or not the abduction phenomenon is real or not, but it is very interesting that the article states "it is important to note that Dr. Strassman's patients were given '___' in a hospital, under observation, while a probe was in their anus to record changes in body temperature."

So what maybe important to note regarding the abduction phenomenon is that perhaps 'abductees' are given some dmt and an anal thermometer by "someone". Who? That I don't know. The shadow government? Perhaps...

On a similar note...

Originally posted by rand
I think it's most interesting to note how the history of what I think of as Type-II* abduction parallels the history of dissociative anesthetics. Betty and Barney Hill were snatched about the time the main line of benzodiazepines was being synthesized; the most nortorious, Ketamine, was commercially developed the year after they were abducted, but development was underway and continued throughout the 60s and continues today.

A quick look at Wikipedia brought up a fairly complete list of benzodiazepines, along with their duration of activity:

en.wikipedia.org...
The benzodiazepines are a class of drugs with hypnotic, anxiolytic, anticonvulsant, amnestic and muscle relaxant properties...used for short-term relief of severe, disabling anxiety or insomnia...
They are believed to act on the GABA receptor GABAA, the activation of which dampens higher neuronal activity. They began to be widely prescribed for stress-related ailments in the 1960s and 1970s.

* Diazepam (Valium®) 36-200 hours
(list edited to save space, see Rand's post above....)

We know the CIA was experimenting with pschoactives, including '___', since the beginning of the organization, back to the early 1940s. Heroin, marijuana, mescaline, cocain, and barbituates were all part of a concerted effort to develop a truth-serum. Surely benzodiazepines and other amnesia-inducing drugs were were on the menu.

In research unrelated to '___', I have found it very interesting that Diazapam (Valium®) is also being used as one of the main antidotes for VX Nerve Agent Poisoning.
Wikipedia article on VX (nerve agent)

VX agent is considered an area denial weapon due to its physical properties.

With its high viscosity and low volatility, VX has the texture and feel of high-grade motor oil. This makes it especially dangerous, as it has a high persistence in the environment. It is odourless and tasteless, and can be distributed as a liquid or, through evaporation, into small amounts of vapour. It works as a nerve agent by blocking the function of the enzyme acetylcholinesterase. Normally, an electric nerve pulse would cause the release of acetylcholine over a synapse that would stimulate muscle contraction. The acetylcholine is then broken down to non-reactive substances (acetic acid and choline) by the acetylcholinesterase enzyme. If more muscle tension is needed the nerve must release more acetylcholine. VX blocks the action of acetylcholinesterase, thus resulting in sustained contractions of all the muscles in the body. Sustained contraction of the diaphragm muscle causes death by asphyxiation.

As little as 200 micrograms is enough to kill an average person, depending on method of absorption. If the absorbed dose is not too high, death can be avoided if the appropriate antidote is injected immediately after exposure. The most commonly used antidotes are atropine, pralidoxime, and diazepam which are, in several nations, issued for military personnel in the form of an autoinjector.

Any thoughts?
DocMoreau

I think that these ('___') are funny statements in order to deny something terrible and inexplicable to us.

Just read through the thread and was surprised no one mentioned Terrence McKenna, who died in 2000, but was a major figure in '___' lore.

I'd stumbled upon '___' on the web in relation to the topic of alien abduction, and was surprised to learn first about its effects of provoking what many describe as entering another dimension, and McKenna's claim, through hundreds of interviews with those who had taken '___', of a persistent storyline common to a significant percentage of trips.

It's been a while since I read the material, but a figure between 20 and 30 percent of those who had taken '___' all described the same hallucination: traveling underground into a large vaulted hall which all perceived as the antechamber of God or the farthest reach of the universe, and being subjected to the taunts and questions and knowing chatter of gnome- or gremlin-like aliens, somewhat buggy looking characters with big eyes that were astoundingly clever.

Of course what is so fascinating is that this is a shared hallucination; it seems the drug itself provokes the same response in a serious percentage of users quite independent of their ever having heard of the "trip."

Here's another thread about '___' I started in 2006:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 23-8-2007 by Diplomat]

Originally posted by parrhesia
Last warning, people. If people continue to share their personal stories of drug use the thread will be closed.

I don't want to get off topic, but clarification by Mods might be in order. I have read the T&C regarding discussions of drug use, and the distinction isn't made between illegal and legal drugs. For instance, one poster in this thread mentioned his experience with Salvia Divinorum. Salvia is a powerful hallucinogen legal to buy over the counter, grow, and ingest. Is that a forbidden topic? Are we to not discuss caffeine, aspirin, etc? I'm not trying to be obtuse, just looking for clarification.

Originally posted by yuefo
[I don't want to get off topic, but clarification by Mods might be in order. I have read the T&C regarding discussions of drug use, and the distinction isn't made between illegal and legal drugs. For instance, one poster in this thread mentioned his experience with Salvia Divinorum.

You are quite absolutely right yuefo. Salvia Divinorum is a legal drug.
So would talking about your experiences with this or '___' be against T&C?

Toogood

[edit on 23-8-2007 by toogood]

reply to post by yuefo


that is a good point...

It somewhat relates to the wikipedia search I originally made regarding the different schedules of controlled substances, and how that brought me to the '___'/Abduction info, and then finally to this thread. And actually, the list of controlled substances, at least to me, seems like it needs to be analyzed by the ATS membership at large to discuss a possible conspiracy by the govt/big pharma to keep certain substances illegal so that the general public does not even know that the experiences associated with them exist.

I understand ATS policy to a degree when it comes to the discussion of controlled substances, but there "really is" a conspiracy to keep Cannabis Sativa, with its long history of use to mankind as a natural source of fiber, food, and medicine amongst others.

The name sativa (from the Latin sativus meaning "sown" or "cultivated") is found in the binomial names of many domesticated plant species

from Wikipedia article: Sativa

Cannabis Sativa is classified as a Schedule I controlled substance, as is '___' among others. Cocaine however is a Schedule II controlled substance. Does that make sense?

I can understand the desire of AboveTopSecret.com wanting members to refrain from discussing specific acts of breaking the law, but I think what might be the most important conspiracy of the 1900s is the one regarding the passage of legislation against "Marijuana" that has allowed the Oil Indiustry to flourish, the logging/paper industry to flourish, big pharma to flourish, and in effect the entire imperial globalization that we see today stems from the Criminalization of Cannabis Sativa.

I think that perhaps the man reason discussions like the one here about the effects of '___', and how certain users during clinical trials had alien abduction hallucinations often get bogged down by the rhetoric of those who come to ATS for a place to hang out, and hence, treat the discussions here casually, as if this was a forum regarding a favorite video game. On the other hand you have a forum where its owners gain income from the advertisements sold based on the amount of users of the forum. The more users, the more money, and more attention. So you have a situation where a certain amount of income is made based that attention, and an unwanted attention that would give the authorities to shut down the whole discussion here, based on a few blurbs of some childish members would be very sad indeed.

To me, I think that we need to have the discussions as to whether or not '___' cause abduction hallucinations, but I also think that there should be laws similar to alcohol and tobacco concerning all controlled substances. Meaning, if you are old enough, go ahead, take some PCP and jump off a building, or smoke some Cannabis and question authority, but if you screw up, kill someone on a '___' bender, or work yourself to death on Cocaine, its your own fault and you deserve whatever happens to you.

But alas, that will never happen, not until more of the public at large is allowed to discuss the topic freely. Otherwise, someday the DEA (Or whatever its NAU counterpart will be called) could arrest you because of the '___' occuring naturally in your brain. Off to the camps you go...

DocMoreau

Originally posted by Gools
My point was that since '___' is a natural chemical found in the body and it has been linked to experiences of alien abduction that some of these stories may be nothing more than the product of biochemistry under the right circumstances (high stress, traumatic events etc.). No doubt the people reporting them really believe what they experienced but maybe, just maybe, it's all in their heads, literally.

It might account for some, but people need to realize that being an experiencer is alot more then just the experience itself. I'd question what these subjects actually experienced. If theyre not experiencers of visitation, then how would they know other then reading reports...which aint the whole story if it's even accurate at all.

I agree the experience is definitely subjective and on the edge of perception but I doubt body highs can account for my wife seeing certain events with me, or house guests seeing lights and other anomalies float around in the living room.

Hi all,

Ayahuasca was also forbidden awhile ago in the USA but later it was allowed for ethnic groups such as indians from S.America because it´s part of their cultural heritage.

Un uncle of mine once tried it while on road trip through Bolivia I think and you don´t even wanna know what he saw.

Same with '___' it opens your so called 3rd eye!

Same with mushrooms!
We all think it´s bad and all of that but just remember that they are natural products that have been around long time and priests have used those products throughout the whole history.

I´ll give you a small hint check this nice magic mushroom called Amanita muscaria
en.wikipedia.org...





Take a good look where the cross the pope holds comes out from you guessed it a mushroom.

For the ones that can see a mushroom..when amanita grows it´s excatly a round ball like on the staff later it grows like a normal mushroom see photo you can see small ones behind the grown up one.

There is always more to it...

Nando out!

Originally posted by yuefo
I don't want to get off topic, but clarification by Mods might be in order. I have read the T&C regarding discussions of drug use, and the distinction isn't made between illegal and legal drugs. For instance, one poster in this thread mentioned his experience with Salvia Divinorum. Salvia is a powerful hallucinogen legal to buy over the counter, grow, and ingest. Is that a forbidden topic? Are we to not discuss caffeine, aspirin, etc? I'm not trying to be obtuse, just looking for clarification.

Precisely my dear yuefo, and it wasnt even my experience.

I'm scared to be writing this as I could be banned from ATS permanently over past 'affairs', but I am just trying to help & educate. Never touched the stuff. And yes it is currently legal to purchase in America. "Headshops" make sales of such wares. You can order online as well, that salvia stuff. I never done it! Just saw someone act crazy on it. Since this thread is discussing both of those substances, I wanted to warn people that even though its legal, it can interact with other drugs/medicines and harm you, like person in my post that got entirely deleted and I recieved a warning for.

I think the TOS should be updated and clarified. I didnt speak of any personal experience, was talking about a legal drug, and trying to help the community steer clear of that legal drug because it is BAD.

Well, if the same approach is taken by staff as by the rest of mankind over history, removing someones voice when they are speaking truth about the danger of substances can lead to injury and death of naive individuals who never got the message.

Oh well, I will just say I hope no one on this forum ever does Salvia Divinorum, the legal drug that you can purchase in store in the USA and on the internet worldwide.

I did "mention" '___' and another drug, but neither did I share any experience of, as I never have done either drug and never will. Because '___' is insane. If we cannot speak about '___' without being warned, wheres everyone elses warning? If we cant speak about personal experiences with Salvia without being warned, why was I warned as it was not a personal experience? Likewise it is not an illegal substance, and would be akin to saying "I know someone once who drank too much cough syrup once.."

Can we get some clarification on the rules or is this post going to get removed too?

PS: Please dont ban me.

[edit on 8/24/2007 by runetang]

Originally posted by parrhesia
Last warning, people. If people continue to share their personal stories of drug use the thread will be closed.

Don't spoil a good thing. This is an interesting topic and you can have fruitful discussion about the implications of the possibility Gools has presented. Don't waste it and throw it away with talk that goes against the T&C.

i understand this is the policy of ATS and will respect it

however, I have to say, discouraging talk of '___' is no different than having a UFO in a hangar and suggesting that people not look in that hangar. If you're not talking about '___', you're completely missing the boat on the middle of the night "alien abduction" phenomenon. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that these experiences are directly tied to the release of dmt from the pineal gland. There is more scientific evidence to support this as the explanation for the alien abduction experience than there is for the camp that believes these are actual, physical experiences. In fact, if there is ANY scientific evidence to show a more terrestrial explanation for this phenomenon, it's far more plausible and doesn't require any series of unverified assumptions.

THAT SAID, I don't think that lowers the significance of the experience. Even if it's a chemical reaction in the brain, there seems to be some sort of purpose to it. In fact, I think it makes it far more interesting than a creature from another planet traveling through space to perform tests.

This is a very interesting topic, which has led me to many questions. The whole question of hallucinogenics has intrigued me... here's why.

You can argue that the experiences by people while on mind altering drugs may be purely illusory. That the human mind is ultimately making you see things that are not real, and are not part of our "reality", which is a popular argument for people who do not advocate the use of drugs. The idea that the mind is creating these hallucinations from the deep dark corners of your mind. That's why certain people may see aliens, or certain people may believe that Jesus himself is sitting in your living room.. and no doubt the mind is a powerful thing, and I do believe your subconscious has a lot to do with our reality.. slightly influencing it and putting in it's two cents on your world..


However..

There is a strange phenomenon of reoccurring experiences. Shamanism is something that seemingly defies logic.. in a concrete form. People from all over the world experience similar experiences when taking certain chemicals which usually are reproductions of things our minds create.

Now shamanism and the experimentation of hallucinogenics by native tribes is a pretty common practice considering that before progress and civility became ramped these tribes worshiped the land they live on. They knew that cures and medicines were all around them in the form of plants.. and expanding the mind through plants was also highly accepted. So tribes all over the world are having similar experiences (and you can't attribute this to social conditioning. ie. seeing a gray because you were horrified by A Fire In The Sky as a child.. these people were isolated).. how is this not something either A. Built into the brain functionality, or B. Slightly changing perception to see other things that are there?

Not to mention personal experiences that match up with others' accounts, without prior knowledge of what they experienced.


What I have begun to believe is that certain elements of our world remain unseen to us due to the fact we operate with limitations. Our brains don't see radio waves, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. With the right equipment you can see them.. so if our instrument (our brain), cannot see something.. and you chemically alter it, it's functioning differently. So to see something that is widely reported isn't very far fetched to believe it is really there. In our reality, only we aren't tuned to it.

So, I don't know if '___' is necessarily a "religious" experience.. that implies a lot and says that this has something to do with god, but it is a real experience to a point. We may just be looking at beings that we don't understand.. there is nothing religious about it.



on a side note:
I highly recommend the book 'Breaking Open the Head' by Daniel Pinchbeck if you're interested in this type of thing.. it gives a modern, New York socialite's view on this whole hallucinogenic trip.. as he transforms into somewhat a modern shaman.. minus the inexplicable healing.

Originally posted by Mind_Wanderer
So, I don't know if '___' is necessarily a "religious" experience.. that implies a lot and says that this has something to do with god, but it is a real experience to a point. We may just be looking at beings that we don't understand.. there is nothing religious about it.

Or there may be something religious about it. As modern man, we have a fairly narrow definition of what "religious" is. The best an organized religion can do is be a decent interpretation of the unknown. I'm not a religious person, but to take a firm position that any sort of religion or spirituality is completely false would be (and is) like a monkey declaring he knows something about universal truth. No one can claim to know the full nature of things...and if they claim that they do, I'd approach them extreme caution and keep one hand on your wallet.

Originally posted by Mind_Wanderer
on a side note:
I highly recommend the book 'Breaking Open the Head' by Daniel Pinchbeck if you're interested in this type of thing.. it gives a modern, New York socialite's view on this whole hallucinogenic trip.. as he transforms into somewhat a modern shaman.. minus the inexplicable healing.

That's good? I tried reading the Quetzlcoatl book and found it unreadable.

It has been observed that certain psychotropic drugs bring about imagery that is particular to that substance. Though I don't carry my copy of "Hallucinogens and Shamanism" with me, I think one example was that Ibogaine generates visons of jaguars. When viewed in that context, the '___'/abduction story makes a certain amount of sense.

Without getting too ancedotal, I once had a fascinating exchange with a professional archaeologist who had accidently imbibed a great deal of mushroom tea in Jamaica...he had no idea it was psilocybin...and one of his memories was of his visions being broken down into fractal patterns. I'll cite his comments:

"What did these patterns look like? On a hunch, when I returned home, I dug out four or five books on Mayan archaeology. The primary patterns that I saw all night long are identical (and I mean identical) to the mosaic
friezes which decorate the palace facade at the Mayan center at Mitla,
Oaxaca, Mexico. There can be no mistaking this. I'm absolutely certain
that the four patterns of the panels are identical to the images that I was
seeing when I closed my eyes.
What's really weird is that prior to looking through these books, I had
never seen a photograph of the mosaic friezes at Mitla."

The rest of the tale is great, too as it involved meeting long-dead shamen and other details as interpreted by an anthropologist...but it's his tale and his alone to share.

[edit on 24-8-2007 by JohnnyCanuck]

Oh criazppp, I jus forgot, I had said something about another illegal substance lol.

But I was talking about afghanistan tribesmen, not me, not americans.

Sorry again .. now I know da rulez on illegal substance talk.

Interesting read and great subject Gools. I suppose one of my thoughts to the negative that come to mind, What about double abduction such a s Betty & Barney Hill, 19th September, 1961 (obviously known to each other) claim:

Betty & Barney Hill story:
www.ufos-aliens.co.uk...

----------
Triple Abduction such as the Australian group in three different cars and (unknown to each other) until appx two years after the claimed Alien Abduction, known in media as the:

Kelly Cahill case, 8th August 1993
www.theozfiles.com...

-----------
Quadruple case (known to each other) The Allagash Incident in 1976
while on a fishing trip

The Alla-gash Abduction, August 1976
www.ufocasebook.com...


Abduction skeptic Dr Persinger of Laurentian University in Canada

Dr Persinger's Alien Abduction theory
skepdic.com...

has many times suggested brain stimulus as reasoning for his belief Abduction of the Alien variety cannot be real. But the above cases are all classics and phenomenal reading but most importantly are multi-person alien abductions and the three cases on it's own are time-tested non-variable reports.
Brain activity as the reasoning unacceptable, unless it somehow affected all parties at the same time.

Dallas

Hi all,

Why still wondering.
Have you guys read about the magic mushroom I posted earlier?
If not take a look again.
Even the pope gets high on em.

nando out!

I think this is one of the most interesting posts and topics I have read in quite some time on this forum. I am quite interested in what I have read about '___' and the fact that this is a naturally occuring substance in the body. I had myself previously come to the conclusion that it may have a role in such processes as lucid dreaming. From my own experince, there are many different levels of clarity and for lack of a better word, "reality" in lucid dreaming. Some lucid dreams are almost "hyper-real" in the way that the viewer has control over their actions and movement, and perhaps more importantly in the response of the surrounding environment.

I recently had a dream that started from a place I think I've been before, landing a fighter jet at an airport. I am then at "home" in a bedroom and I start to experience the beginnings of an OBE in my dream - except I can't quite escape my body. I finally do drift out of my body and I am first floating near the ceiling of this "dream bedroom" - then I am going through the window covered by the venetian blinds. It is a very wierd exprience. When I get outside in the night sky I am suddenly frightened by my weightless state. I am looking for something to grab onto and a big office chair floats by. When I grab onto it, I slowly drift down to the ground which is apparently in another universe or dimension. I follow a dwarf into a building and I am in a room with many dwarfs. They all know me and indicate that they had actually called for my presence.

I had some sort of feeling that these beings were the "timekeepers".

I know that some people who have used '___' refer to similar beings.
I have never used '___' but I am intrigued by the role of naturally occuring chemicals in our conscious perceptions of the world.
Has anyone else had similar experiences?