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Bush's Wartime Dictatorship

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posted on Dec, 23 2005 @ 04:40 AM
The threat of presidential supremacism.

In defending his edict authorizing s urveillance of phone calls and e-mails originating in the United States, President Bush reiterated legal arguments, long made by his intellectual Praetorians, that imbue the White House with wartime powers no different from those exercised by a Roman emperor. As Barton Gellman and Dafna Linzer pointed out in the Washington Post the other day:

"Bush’s constitutional argument, in the eyes of some legal scholars and previous White House advisers, relies on extraordinary claims of presidential war-making power. Bush said yesterday that the lawfulness of his directives was affirmed by the attorney general and White House counsel, a list that omitted the legislative and judicial branches of government. On occasion the Bush administration has explicitly rejected the authority of courts and Congress to impose boundaries on the power of the commander in chief, describing the president’s war-making powers in legal briefs as ‘plenary’ – a term defined as ‘full,’ ‘complete,’ and ‘absolute."

The new presidential absolutism infuses not only Bush’s foreign policy, which asserts the “right” of the White House to make war on anyone, anywhere, anytime, and for any reason, but also, increasingly, his domestic policies. The doctrine of wartime presidential supremacy has been dramatized, in recent days, in a series of disturbing developments on the home front: the utilization of "national security letters" by the FBI to snoop on thousands of U.S. citizens, the creation of a permanent database that amounts to an electronic “enemies list,” and just this past week the revelation that the National Security Agency is eavesdrop ping on phone calls and e-mails originating in the U.S. – without going to the FISA court that normally oversees such activities.

This doctrine of presidential supremacy is derived, in substance and style, from the unrestrained militarism of the regime. That we are now in a state of permanent war requires that our government undertake a perpetual war on what is left of our civil liberties. Given the nature of this conflict with a formless, stateless enemy, more a concept than a combatant, there is no longer any division between the “home front” and the struggle against the worldwide Islamist insurgency, between domestic and foreign policy. We spy on Americans because we fight in Iraq, and, as time goes on, the converse will be true: we will continue the overseas battle in order for the regime to win the fight against its political opponents in the U.S. That the antiwar opposition, already demonized by neoconservative ideologues as "appeasers" and worse, will wind up being treated as “the enemy” should surprise no one.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.

"Out of the Old, a New World Order shall Emerge!"

That is what you get, when a sitting President declares that the constitution is just "A God damned piece of paper", it reveals much about his inner character; or lack thereof.

It looks like the President of the United States of America has declared himself fully and completely Above the Law. The Constitution does not matter to him - nor do the Amendments.

The framers of the Constitution devised an elaborate system of checks and balances to ensure our liberty by making sure that no person, institution or branch of government became so powerful that a tyranny could be established in the United States of America. Impeachment is one of the checks the framers gave the Congress to prevent the executive or judicial branches from becoming corrupt or tyrannical.
Rep. James Sensenbrenner (R-Wis.), Opening Statement, Impeachment of William Jefferson Clinton, 10 December 1998

Still, that is EXACTLY what is going on right now.

April 2004, Bush Speech - also check this Video; President a Liar?:

Now, by the way, any time you hear the United States government talking about wiretap, it requires - a wiretap requires a court order. Nothing has changed, by the way. When we're talking about chasing down terrorists, we're talking about getting a court order before we do so. It's important for our fellow citizens to understand, when you think Patriot Act, constitutional guarantees are in place when it comes to doing what is necessary to protect our homeland, because we value the Constitution."

Now how do You call that?

I call that a LIE:

1. A false statement deliberately presented as being true; a falsehood.
2. Something meant to deceive or give a wrong impression

How many More of those Lies, do you need to See and Hear in order to Realize that this Goverment is Corrupt, Selfish and above all, Evil to the Core? You think they care for the Lives of Americans or Iraqis or any other people on this Planet?

And let me tell you Ladies and Gents, this is just the BEGINNING - how things are looking, Bush&Co. are preparing for a Serious Wartime Presidental Supremacy, which is beginning to take shape and form as you read this words.

I suggest you read also this 273 page long Report by Rep. John Conyers and the Democratic staff of the House Judiciary Committee - it helps to open up your eyes and to get a Bigger pictures to this Situation:

"The Constitution in Crisis: The Downing Street Minutes and Deception, Manipulation, Torture, Retribution, and Coverups in the Iraq War."

posted on Dec, 23 2005 @ 07:24 AM

Unlike many others here, I dont tend to disagree with you more often than I agree with you..the only thing I've got to say in support of Bush and Co's actions are that, we (the US citzens) we're at the time the enabler of his actions...feeding the administration the wartone rhetoric that allowed them to affect those actions. I think in our haste to "go get em" after the 9/11 incident, we effectively became the victims of our own haste.

Anyone who has raised a child can, im sure, see the similarities...Bush is like a child, he saw our intent and support and ran with it, taking the proverbial inch into a mile. "Oh boy look at all the power ive got! Lets see what else I can get away with now." A child will tend to push the envelope to see just how far their parents are willing to let him or her the "parents" need to affect some discipline.


posted on Dec, 23 2005 @ 07:28 AM
I think everyone knows president bush is up to something strange...i think aliens are involed...has anyone herd about that airport with the strange neo-nazi drawings in them...i believe you can find it on

posted on Dec, 23 2005 @ 08:51 AM
I think President Bush is stretching really far with his "Wartime" powers, especially when he was the one who declared the "War On Terror".

Someone needs to put a stop to him, & I hope it's the Senators, maybe they will impeach him, but will he have a plan in order to put that in check too...who knows.

Or is this all a ruse...? I'm beginning to think so. Smoke & Mirrors, which is typical politics as usual.

The Emperor has no cloths on.

posted on Dec, 23 2005 @ 10:39 AM
Hmm. Sounds like a story I've heard before, how did it go?

"On the far-away island of Sala-ma-sond, Yertle the Turtle was king of the pond." -Dr. Seuss

posted on Dec, 23 2005 @ 11:47 AM

i think aliens are involved

Aliens involved? Yeah, ohhh kay! No aliens. Just a stupid president and a stupid administration that think the people are stupid and will believe the lies and bs...unfortunately, a lot do. Thank God...many don't. I still scratch my head every time I think about all the morons that voted Dubya back in office for a second term. What did they think they were going to get??

posted on Dec, 23 2005 @ 11:52 AM
It is within the presidents power to order such serveilance without the permission of the fisa court. Sh*t I mean Clinton ordered that physical searches could be made without warrants of this kind. The propor channels should be used when possible, but when time matters you cant wait around for a warrant. Its just not feasable with the current situation. You might miss a window to catch a big fish or get important intelligence while waiting to apply(which is the most lengthy portion of obtaining a FISA warrant) and recieve the warrant. Bush is not a dictator, and I understand that you might want to believe it. But come and live here and I think you will see what I mean.

posted on Dec, 23 2005 @ 11:55 AM
No strange powers are being used. The President is doing a great job. Presidents Clinton and Carter have also used Presidental powers to search and listen to citzens.

Can any of you cite an example of President Bush abusing these powers, to hurt a law abiding citizen?


-- Boat

posted on Dec, 23 2005 @ 12:09 PM

Can any of you cite an example of President Bush abusing these powers, to hurt a law abiding citizen?

I don't like Bush. But, I will agree he's doing what he feels he has to. Desperate times require desperate measures. The world isn't the same today. After 9/11 and with threats still out there for possible terrorist acts within the US, the president is doing what he has to to watch our backs. I don't feel he needs any grief over these decisions to wire tap and tape potential enemies of the state.

The media is more to blame. They take this situation and turn it into a massive scandal. They are the ones that should be spanked, not the president.

posted on Dec, 23 2005 @ 12:17 PM
Boatphone, haven't you heard about all the US Citizens who have been whisked across the Canadian border, by the CIA? This is Bush's doing, by letting them do stuff like this, he's abusing his powers.

These are American Citizens that are being tortured on Foreign soil, because it's not legal on Amercian soil. This happened around 50 years ago, to another scapegoat like "terrorists", they were the Jews, & Hitler did it.

posted on Dec, 23 2005 @ 12:25 PM
Er.... SpartanKingLeonidas,
Got something to back that up? The most that I have ever heard whispers about were NON US citizens and that was onlt of reports that CIA planes passed thru Canada

posted on Dec, 23 2005 @ 12:38 PM
Try watching TV Kenshiro. Condoleeza Rice has been defending Bush & the CIA's action left & right.

No one should be tortured, whether they're American or not.

So, you're telling Me, if YOU were the suspect, you'd be okay with it?

I'm not saying you've done anything, or that you'd ever do it, but the CIA suspsected you, because of something you said on the phone, & it was taken totally out of context, or misinterpreted by the transcriptor after your phone call was recorded.

posted on Dec, 23 2005 @ 12:47 PM
First off... I asked you to provide evidence to back up your statment

Boatphone, haven't you heard about all the US Citizens who have been whisked across the Canadian border, by the CIA? This is Bush's doing, by letting them do stuff like this, he's abusing his powers.

You did not other than saying to watch the tv. Notice that I asked that you back up your assertion that
1) US citizens were being whisked away.
2) These US citizens were now in Canada being tortured.

Again I request that you provide something to support your assertions.

Secondly, I am not pro torture of anybody weather they be American or otherwise. I do question the standards used to identified torture. Example of what I mean. In a recent assertion by Sadaam Husain during his trial, He asserted that he was being tortured by having to walk up several flights of stairs due to the elevator being out of order.

Now thirdly, there is no need to get personal. If you make unsupported statements as you did, do not expect that no one will ask you to prove them.
I could state that the aliens are in the White House and are manipulating our goverment and our environment. Without something to prove my statment, what do you think the world would think?

posted on Dec, 23 2005 @ 12:47 PM
Well there are US citizens in Guatanamo bay. The fact that they are muslims does'nt cancel their US citizenship and civil rights. Moreover, all these people who were sent to detention camps (most of them being secret) without any trial, they were NOT war prisoners, nor criminals. These imprisonment have no legal or constitutional backup at all, but they were made possible only because the US judiciary system is controlled by neo con fascists like Gonzalez and Scalia.

But the biggest violation of constitutional law, and thus his own rights as a President, is to send hundreds of thousands US troops to kill tens of thousands innocent civilians in a completely unjustified war. I don't care if Clinton, or Carter did the same (and what about Reagan waging illegal wars in Central America? and about father Bush's Iraq war?), G.W. Bush is the one actually in power... he took over Presidency using the services of Diebold, and is behaving as he was above Law itself. He's a crook, and a fascist one. And you people are stuck with him until you decide to bring him down by all means possible.

You OWN the government... it's not the opposite!

[edit on 23/12/05 by Echtelion]

posted on Dec, 23 2005 @ 12:59 PM
Kenshiro, nothing I said here was meant to be taken personal, either by you or Me. I'm not mad at you, I really don't care, I was just trying to make a point.

Here's a link to a story about Connie & the CIA :

Echtelion has a good point too, American citizens are down in Guantanamo Bay, & just because they're Muslim American, doesn't make them less American than you or I.

posted on Dec, 23 2005 @ 01:04 PM
I am not questioning that US citizens maybe in Gitmo. Remember there have been a few us citizens who have been caught red handed so to speak. The question that I have posed was for support of SpartanKingLeonidas assertion of cia whisking us citizens to canada for torture.
This has not been sustantiate nor has there been an attempt to do so.

Now, for your assertion that

US troops to kill tens of thousands innocent civilians in a completely unjustified war

Can you show proof of that? Here let me help:

Baghdad, Iraq - At Sheik Omar Clinic, a big book records 10,363 violent deaths in Baghdad and nearby towns since the war began last year - deaths caused by car bombs, clashes between Iraqis and coalition forces, mortar attacks, revenge killings and robberies.
Emphasis mine, Notice that the number of deaths is all lumped together. There is no separation that says they were all killed by americans.. unless you are of the school of thought that even the carbombs are from american forces

Even by Iraq Body count the majority of deaths have been caused by insurgents and many have been against the Iraqi police forces (of late)
Iraq Body Count
So..... where is the proof of the americans causing 10's of thousands of civilian deaths?
As for the American people owning the goverment....... You may want to take a look at that again
There are many americans who would disagree with you on that one. Many will point out the numerous questions about the last election. The recent Supreme Court rulings that have supported big buisness and goverment rather than the US citizen.

posted on Dec, 23 2005 @ 01:11 PM

Originally posted by Boatphone
No strange powers are being used. The President is doing a great job. Presidents Clinton and Carter have also used Presidental powers to search and listen to citzens.

Can any of you cite an example of President Bush abusing these powers, to hurt a law abiding citizen?


-- Boat

that is the point,
he is asking us to trust that he wont abuse his new powers...
he already has!

and if you haven't read the articles regarding how these powers have already been abused... usually as retribution towards groups that oppose his actions, and the war in general...
then see the links i have below

for reference, I give some threads that are already discussing''

posted on Dec, 23 2005 @ 01:25 PM
Gee what a suprise huh. The administration doesnt even seems to be discreet anymore. One thing that is getting at me is that the administration is trying to say that the need for speed is the most essential part of why they didnt use the FISA court. When in fact they can "tap" the phones of who they are after and ...then get a warrent from the FISA court...once again a blatant missuse of power...but you know what they say... absolute power corrupts...absolutely.
What i dont get is this: If we are in a war of ideology such as this war against extremist muslims (or whatever term they are giving it this month), then to compromise our ideals, to me, is insane. For if we sacrifice what it is we believe in, even for our safety, would mean we have already lost. Its is imperitive for us NOT to compromise our values of "freedom".
But "freedom" was never the agenda of this administration. Bush once said and i quote "Being a dictator would be alot easier as long as im the dictator". source
Furthermore its insane that bush and company are acting suprised and outraged at this story from the NY times when in fact the news agency had been told to hold the story for over a year at the request of the white house. Gee imaging what that would have done to the bush campaign had the story been run when it was originally reported. Can we say Blatant manipulation of the media for political gains?! Im nobody special and if i can think of this crap then im sure that political stratigists who get paid 6 figures sure as hell think of this and more. "theres no such thing as coincidence in politics" my grandfather used to tell me as i was growing up. and what he said has never been more true then it is now. When will the people of this country realize that enough is enough? when its too late? when we are unable to defend ourselves against a tyrannical govt? when marital law is declared? when?.... But violence only fuels their if we acnnot rise up militantly to fix our govt then how? voting gets us nowhere since lobbyism(legal political bribery) which is flourishing at the expense of the masses seems to be totally swept under the carpet. then What can we do? Well whatever it is we need to do it soon before our constitution just goes completely up in would make a hell of a blunt paper!

posted on Dec, 23 2005 @ 01:40 PM
No worries

Now on the link that you provided.
There is no mention of US citizens being taken to any camps much less than ones in Canada. I would also take what is said on that source with a grain of salt. Here is why, there is a quote as follows:

At that same time President George W. Bush reportedly issued instructions to the CIA to take a no-holds-barred approach when interrogating suspected terrorists and, according to counter-terrorism czar Richard Clarke, used colorful language to impress his attitude upon Clarke and Rumsfeld: "I don't care what the international lawyers say, we are going to kick some ass." The head of the Counter-terrorism Center at the CIA conveyed the atmosphere quite well when he testified to Congress that after 9/11 "the gloves were off."

That is not quite true. The quote was from George Bush that he made on 9/11/2001 directly after the attack on the Pentagon and the WTO.

"I don't care what the international lawyers say, we are going to kick some ass." President George W. Bush, Sept. 11, 2001 (quoted by Richard A. Clarke, Against All Enemies) .

Notice that there is absolutely no mention of interogations of terrorists, detainees or anything else. The President made that statment targeting the people resposible for 9/11.
As for American Detainees in GITMO, the following is from Wiki

The WSJ reports that of the 505 detainees held in Guantánamo, 100 or more are from Saudi Arabia, about 80 are from Yemen, about 65 are from Pakistan and about 50 are from Afghanistan. Two detainees are from Syria.

There is no mention of US citizens. Note, I beleive that there are indeed americans there but... What would you do with someone like Walker otherwise known as the American Taliban?

posted on Dec, 23 2005 @ 01:57 PM
Just because he isn't carting them off to camps, doesn't mean that he isn't going after americans...

labeling innocent americans as threats DOES cause them harm...
here is how...

If you are threat, they can open your mail, and e-mail, as well as intercept your voicemail... how does that hurt, if you are an innocent person, you may ask?

well, they don't send you mail that has been opened. They assume that you will assume that it was not delivered... so after the 5th time you call to ask someone to resend the check they sent, you could be starving... or what about that electric bill that you didn't get... well, you dont need lights, and the lack of power, will tell you that you didn't get a bill you forgot about...

also, the e-mails, could have been business e-mails, that were waiting for order confirmations, or even requests for quotes... all equaling lost money...
and the guys doing the monitoring just think, "Oh, well, mail gets lost all the time... they wont mind"

Yes, i can make these allegations, as they happened to our company during a customs investigation (resolved).
the lost money was considered "cooperation" and there was no recompense that we could file for... and with who?

so, these rules dont have to be carting off Americans to cause them harm, they already have..

another example: A quaker group in new england, was holding a meeting to plan a protest against military recruitment methods at the high school...
they are now listed as threats...
they cannot get a federal job, or a state job due to that...

they are innocent americans...
so it is abuse

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