WAR: Secret Court Judge Resigns

Originally posted by zappafan1
The significant words in the article are "... apparently in protest".

You're absolutely right. He could have resigned to spend more time with his family. Legal analysts suggest he resigned in protest, but they could be wrong.

However:

Washington Post
A federal judge has resigned from the court that oversees government surveillance in intelligence cases in protest of President Bush's secret authorization of a domestic spying program, according to two sources.
...
Two associates familiar with his decision said yesterday that Robertson privately expressed deep concern that the warrantless surveillance program authorized by the president in 2001 was legally questionable and may have tainted the FISA court's work.

Hopefully we'll find out from the Judge himself the real reason for his resignation.

zappafan1,

Where in twitchy's post does it say

the Republicans own the media

Hmmm?

It doesn't. I believe twitchy is referring to the government. Are you saying the Republicans own the government?

The people may own the vote, but there is a lot of evidence that vote has been fraudulently manipulated recently. We may own the money, which I doubt, but we certainly don't control it. Private banks with fractional reserves quaranteed by the Fed control the money supply.

Whatever you've been doing for 40 years, you haven't been reading carefully before you jump to partisan conclusions.

[edit on 22-12-2005 by Icarus Rising]

Fascism

1. A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.

REPLY: What socioeconomic contols are in place, and by whom?
What censorship, and where, and to whom? This forum is still operational, isn't it?
Racism here is caused by those declaring racism (Jackson, Farrakan, many colleges).
Nationalism: ".... The term “nationalism” is generally used to describe two phenomena: (1) the attitude that the members of a nation have when they care about their national identity and (2) the actions that the members of a nation take when seeking to achieve (or sustain) self-determination.

That's a bad thing?.....

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by zappafan1
The significant words in the article are "... apparently in protest".

You're absolutely right. He could have resigned to spend more time with his family.

Legal analysts suggest he resigned in protest, but they could be wrong.

However:

Washington Post
A federal judge has resigned from the court that oversees government surveillance in intelligence cases in protest of President Bush's secret authorization of a domestic spying program, according to two sources.
...
Two associates familiar with his decision said yesterday that Robertson privately expressed deep concern that the warrantless surveillance program authorized by the president in 2001 was legally questionable and may have tainted the FISA court's work.

Hopefully we'll find out from the Judge himself the real reason for his resignation.

REPLY: I agree. I, too, wonder why he left. I hope he comes forward with an explanation. I wonder about a few other things, though: A) what is party affiliation? B) if he held the same position during the Clinton years (who used the same law(s) .... not to gather info on terrorists, but on political enemies).
C) The law clearly wasn't broken, so why exactly DID he leave?

Originally posted by Icarus Rising
zappafan1,

Where in twitchy's post does it say

the Republicans own the media

Hmmm?

It doesn't. I believe twitchy is referring to the government. Are you saying the Republicans own the government?

The people may own the vote, but there is a lot of evidence that vote has been fraudulently manipulated recently. We may own the money, which I doubt, but we certainly don't control it. Private banks with fractional reserves quaranteed by the Fed control the money supply.

Whatever you've been doing for 40 years, you haven't been reading carefully before you jump to partisan conclusions.

[edit on 22-12-2005 by Icarus Rising]

REPLY: Considering that it is implied by the media that the judge resigned because of something the administration did wrong, I may have mistakenly got the impression that Twitchy was referring to The Left (actually the center) as far as the media goes. Many, many people are in error in that context.

The Republicans couldn't hold a candle to the vote machine the Dems have had for decades, evidence of which has been around for as long. I haven't heard of any Republican districts where 100% of registered voters turned up to vote (that would never happen).

We control our own money (and for most, not very well). The Central Bank controls money/investments for us as a country (and not very well). We've had only two presidents who, rightfully, abolished the Central bank (a Marxist construct), and it should be abolished for good, by Constitutional Amendment.

My reading of 40 years have led me to be a Conservative Libertarian... one who believes in the Constitution and Bill of Rights... AS THEY WERE WRITTEN.
I was a democrat 'till I started working, and realised where all my taxes were going.

What I've been reading/studying over the years has nothing to do with the (possible) error in partisanship.

(edited for content)

[edit on 23-12-2005 by zappafan1]

Sounds as though he was a spineless and gutless worm! We didn't need him there in the first place if he's not willing to stick to his job and follow it through.

The way I see it is, we're not even close to getting through with the war on terrorism and we must stay the course (tighten up if anything) that we're on now.

If there is another reason besides embarrassment for this judges resignation, then I apologize for my first comment, but I sincerly believe he can't take the heat of doing what's right!

Intelearthling: You're absolutely correct. A person of honor is one who does the right thing when no-one is watching (therefore nothing to gain).

Personally, I am leaning towards the notion that Judge Robertson may be the possible leaker of the NYT NSA surveillance issue. Nothing hard to back this notion and definately he merits a 'innocent till proven guilty,' but he is one of a possible few others.

Looking forward to that leak investigation.
Considering the past few years and the number of government leaks, its high time for a Plame-styled leak investigation.





seekerof

Originally posted by Seekerof
Personally, I am leaning towards the notion that Judge Robertson may be the possible leaker.....

Personally, I don't see this. It seems to me that the Administration bypassed the court in the interest of secrecy, so I don't think it would make much sense run the whole idea by anyone on the court. Secondly, I think that if this guy actually did leak the information, he wouldn't get by with a unexplained resignation. He'd be facing criminal charges.

Spy Court Judge Quits In Protest

U.S. District Judge James Robertson, one of 11 members of the secret Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court,

Two associates familiar with his decision said yesterday that Robertson privately expressed deep concern that the warrantless surveillance program authorized by the president in 2001 was legally questionable and may have tainted the FISA court's work.

www.washingtonpost.com...

Yes he is more liberal leaning in the court but you must give him something to be in a secret court process. To me he is the patriot of the year!! To give up a position in fighting a “war-even though the congress has not declaration of war” on terror. The American people should reward principles like that. Anytime you rat on a corporation or government it is seen as not the right time or place to discuss the problem. That is why most problems are never ever taken care of.

Now back to the qualifications of this expert to say rather if this was leaning towards illegality or not this judge should know. Not only a judge but also the judge who gives out tapping warrants. Now what will the bush boys say? I see they even dusted off Colin Powel for this one. When the backbone of your machine starts to fall apart then maybe your focus or purpose in this case defending America should be looked at critically.

I know the media will try to manipulate this, as a blip and nothing important so we go along with what is hip. But running this guys name through the mud which bush likes to do to all his opponents including Mc Cain. I really don’t think it will work this time.

Terrorism is a symptom of the problem. Not the problem Give them something to life for besides killing you. Apparently if they have a brighter future then they would not choose these options. Most of these terrorist, freedom fighters, guerilla troops, are mainly college educated and highly informed about world politics. These are not knuckleheads and goofballs. They do have brains. And they want the same thing we want to practice their religion, raise their children culturally in the way they want (Not what you want) and to provide a decent life for them. It should not be hard to accommodate these ideals under any system.

To me if we became more of a global neighbor instead of vigilante cop. If we start to listen to the problems first and then start to negotiate. Then there would not need to be armed guards in the street like we are in China. People would not be as afraid of America if they did not follow some of their trade and foreign polices.

I am for getting the bad guys but go after the fundamentalist Christians like you go after the fundamentalist Muslims. They both put you in danger!!
Both subjugate freedom, women, minorites, and children equally. But I do not see that in this American society. If I heard some of the things that come out of some of these "Born again" people mouths and put them into an Arab, or Koreans mouth then we would be shouting bloody murder and demading the govenment to censor them.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
Personally, I don't see this. It seems to me that the Administration bypassed the court in the interest of secrecy, so I don't think it would make much sense run the whole idea by anyone on the court. Secondly, I think that if this guy actually did leak the information, he wouldn't get by with a unexplained resignation. He'd be facing criminal charges.

That may well be true, Grady.
Simple and unbacked speculation on my part, though as indicated, there are a few other possibles I am holding back from mentioning.
What I do find ironic is the same that I found with the NYT article when it was released: the timing. Judge Robertson did not resign before the NYT broke the NSA story, he resigned after. Why? Because it would undoubtedly be newsworthy after the fact. Also, being appointed by Clinton, why did he not resign from the FISA court, when the one who appointed him used FISA in defense of the people of this nation?


BlackThought:
As for the Judge resigning in protest, hardly.
According to the article:

.... notifying him of his resignation without providing an explanation.

Spy Court Judge Quits In Protest
Misleading title to article, to say the least.
More media manipulation to advance its own agenda.


And the possible "judge" connection to an associated NYT NSA article, here:

The judge who oversees the secret court that authorizes intelligence warrants - and which has been largely bypassed by the program - also raised concerns about aspects of the program.

NYT: Spying Program Snared U.S. Calls
Judge Robertson equates to "the judge."
Again, timing.
Btw, Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year: The New York Times' Christmas Gift







seekerof

[edit on 27-12-2005 by Seekerof]

Originally posted by Seekerof
Personally, I am leaning towards the notion that Judge Robertson may be the possible leaker of the NYT NSA surveillance issue. Nothing hard to back this notion and definately he merits a 'innocent till proven guilty,' but he is one of a possible few others.

Looking forward to that leak investigation.

Considering the past few years and the number of government leaks, its high time for a Plame-styled leak investigation.

REPLY: Oh.. I assure you that there will be an investigation as to ALL of the recent leaks.
Birdies in my ear indicate that it might be Jay Rockefeller, from West Virginia, who did the leaking; after all he IS on the Senate Select Commitee on Intelligence. We'll just have to wait and see.......





seekerof

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
U.S. District Judge James Robertson resigned from a special court set up by Congress in 1978 to oversee government surveillance apparently in protest of President Bush's secret authorization of a classified program that included spying on the overseas communications of US citizens. The judge refused to comment on his resignation which was tendered to Chief Justice John Roberts. The White House has also refused comment on the resignation, citing Robertson's decision not to comment.

 

abcnews.go.com
A federal judge has resigned from a special court set up to oversee government surveillance, apparently in protest of President Bush's secret authorization of a domestic spying program on people with suspected terrorist ties.

U.S. District Judge James Robertson would not comment Wednesday on his resignation, but The Washington Post reported that it stemmed from deep concern that the surveillance program Bush authorized was legally questionable and may have tainted the work of the court. The Post quoted two associates of the judge.

An aide to Robertson said the resignation letter submitted to Chief Justice John Roberts was not being released. Robertson did not step down from his district judgeship in Washington.

White House press secretary Scott McClellan would not comment on Robertson's reported resignation or the reasons cited for his departure. "Judge Robertson did not comment on the matter and I don't see any reason why we need to," McClellan said.


Please visit the link provided for the complete story.

While it is impossible to know completely what the judge's reasoning was for his resignation...that will likely reverberate throughout the government for generations to come, spawning new laws and interpretations of existing law... That assessment will come to light, I'm sure, in the coming months as a result of a Congressional inquiry.

I love these old threads. Everybody gets all excited about what will be revealed in the coming months. Then nothing else ever surfaces in the main stream media - nada - zip - zilch -

Maybe Judge Robertson's public resignation might as well have harkened that he, MAY have remained in charge of the whole spy operation? I mean, the next time Judge Robertson shows up on this forum is NOW, as the judge who is dismissing one of the cases questioning Obama's eligibility to be President under the US Constitution's requirement for the president to be a "natural born citizen".

On another forum, one of the bloggers hypothesized that the whole issue of questioning Obama's qualification to be President was a "sting" operation intended to flush out terrorists, and Obama's "missing years" were actually spent in CIA training. Who knows?

Related News Links:
www.nytimes.com www.cbsnews.com
www.alertnet.org
www.washingtonpost.com

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WAR: Bush Allowed NSA to Spy on U.S. International Calls
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