World opinion of America based on Iraq's future.

If in the future Iraq rises to be a great leader of middle eastern nations. Bound with new freedoms and democracy. How do you believe this would take effect on world opinion of America?

Now i know that there are those out there, who have from day one of their life on this earth, absolutely dispised America. And irregardless of anything Americans do or don't do, they will always have the ultimate hatred towards it as an existence on this planet.

That being said -

I am mainly looking for peoples thoughts and opinions on how they might be swayed or unswayed in their opinions of the United States if they find that Iraq unites behind their newly found opportunities and rises to become a great nation.

Prior to the war,.....Most nations (i'm not saying all) could have agreed on concerns with Iraq's tyrant leader. Especially after gasing the kurds in the north and then invading its neighbor Kuwait. The US highlighted WMDs as the main reason for removing Saddam and his regime. As we all know, none were physically found. Whether there were WMDs and Saddam just had all the time in the world hid them well......or whether the CIA was just completely on Crack will always be debated. As will the justification of the war entirely.

Obviously, the US made alot of mistakes along the way. However with Iraq now coming out in record numbers to build and institute a new governing body,...you have to admit,....there may be a great chance that they are on their way to somthing better. Curtainly better than it is now. Just how much better remains a mistery.

The United States has really gone into the dumps with many nations around the world because of this war. Iraq for the longest time has been viewed as a depressing story with all its conflicts with the west, the US, and its very own dictator Saddam. If this country finds the ability to now turn into a success story,....do you think the international opinion of the US will turn with it?

Carburetor

Who cares about opinions. The average citizen has no say in what will or will not be done. This isn't the 60's rosy. If we can invade another nation and hone their resources we'll do it,

Originally posted by vincere7
Who cares about opinions. The average citizen has no say in what will or will not be done. This isn't the 60's rosy. If we can invade another nation and hone their resources we'll do it,

Fair enough.

However, in my opionion world sentiment does matter. Nowadays a strong nation builds through it's International relationships from economics, to trade, to science and exploration, all the way to military partnerships. And at a more personal level,....the truely prideful citizens care about how their country and people are viewed internationally. For example...You don't go to some resort hotel in say...Thailand and get a greeting like "What the hell are you doing in this dump?" no you get smiles and elaborate costumes with dancers and some polite Thai lady keeping your drink filled to the rim. By having a favored outlook with their culture, they build a relationship that benefits both.

Why do you think the terrorists find such a great weapon in the media? Because they have the ability to bend and twist the image of Americans. And this hurts the US on an international scale.

What does the 60's have to do with this questons?. And the suggestion that the United States has invaded other countries simply to hone resources is , at this time, a simple un proven fact.

Carburetor

In my opinion, Iraq becoming a great democratic nation could never justify the war on terror, WMDs, going against the UN etc.

Do I think the world as a whole would 'forgive' America? Yes, mostly. In the long term. Especially since the Bush government has done such a good job defending itself so far.
America is a superpower and other countries will need to learn to get along. like you said, its all about the sciene, trade, military relationships.

Originally posted by feebus
In my opinion, Iraq becoming a great democratic nation could never justify the war on terror, WMDs, going against the UN etc.

Do I think the world as a whole would 'forgive' America? Yes, mostly. In the long term. Especially since the Bush government has done such a good job defending itself so far.
America is a superpower and other countries will need to learn to get along. like you said, its all about the sciene, trade, military relationships.

Of course. You have an invested intrest in the US failing in Iraq. Therefore you cant even imagine victory and if there is, you have to find something else to hate the US for.

I dont think the US is worth hating - OK maybe just US Wrestling, but I do think the US political gumbys are worth striking off the Xmas card list.

Regardless of what happens in Irag I hope the US start to look after their own, because the citizens of the US deserve better.

Spend a few less bucks on guns and try fixing stuff in country instead of in someone elses country

Israel will be the leader in the Middle East, or at least wants to be.

Originally posted by feebus
Do I think the world as a whole would 'forgive' America?

Forgive us for what? Doing the right thing? We don't need the world's forgiveness, permission, sympathy, critisism,etc. As long as the U.S., the U.K., Australia and Israel remain allies, who needs the rest of the world!

As for forgiving us! Hah! We didn't do anything to be forgiven of!

EDIT: Not to be offensive. Just being defensive!

[edit on 28/12/05 by Intelearthling]

No, we'll get no credit. There'll be a cottage industry of international press and book writers trying to explain how Iraq turned out well despite Bush and all of the American mistakes though...

I don't see world opinion changing significantly should Iraq become "succesful" (though I admit I do not entirely know what a succesful Iraq would look like- oil rich yet fundamentalist, like Saudi Arabia? or democratic and secular, yet fractured.. like Lebanon? democratic yet fundamentalist, like Iran? there is no precedent for "success" by American-Western standards in the middle east that I can use as a template).

The reason is that the damage is (was) done in the early stages. America invaded Iraq against world opinion, and even should Iraq become a "success" by western standards, it would A.) still piss off others in the region for that very reason and B.) happen too gradually for any sudden reconsideration in world opinion to occur, solely regarding Iraq. The only way America can rebuild it's image is to do so holistically, in its dealings with the world at large over a long period of time, not simply achieve success in Iraq.

In Europe, after WW2, Americans were greeted with joy the very instant they set foot in each village, liberating them from the Germans. In Japan, while they werent liberating anyone per se (except maybe slave laborers), they were still welcomed because of the nature of Japan's society (ie, the unquestioning obedience of the people to the Emperor, who basically ordered the people to welcome and work with the Americans). It was these initial moments more than the subsequent rebuilding which colored world opinion towards America for decades to come. We've seen those initial moments come and go in Iraq already, and needless to say, they were not as promised.

Personally I think if America is to become a world leader once again, it has to throw itself entirely and diplomatically into the world body, and work with other nations as well as the UN (and change the latter into something more effective, rather than shun it or coerce it from without). This means practicing what America preaches and getting our own house in order first. The response to Katrina affected people's opinions of America just as negatively, if not more so, than Iraq did- after all, many countries have fought unpopular wars, and people around the world know that in that regard they may be "throwing stones in a glass house," but few countries are as vocal and noisy about how the rest of the world should run itself as the U.S., so the real damage is started not on foreign battlefields, but at home, as I see it.

As a side note, world opinion IS important, if only because it helps the US achieve its own aims if other nations are willing to work with the US instead of against it. It also forces other nations to comply with international law and international standards of nationhood if they see the US behind such concepts rather than antagonizing them.

[edit on 28-12-2005 by koji_K]

i dont know where to find it but my teacher read it to the class last semester. it was colin powell talking to the un about how the un and all the countries sign a agreement or treaty(something along those lines with iraq) but anyways back to the un thing. before we starting bombing iraq colin powell ask the un if they will help but all the countries wouldnt. say the us and a couple of other countries helped. Another thing, when president bush sat down with the russian pres. after the terrorist thing with the school in russia. the pres of russia even told bush that iraq had wmds. Yeah maybe theres a chance they moved them or something i dont know. i will try and find the news report and this was stuff on the bbc not on usa news. yeah im young and dont know all the names but i was taught in school and i always figured it was this way; that whoever is the president everyone should respect him, even if they didnt vote for him. so when the next election comes up then vote for the other guy. i dont understand why people get so pissed off at the presidents decision or any presidents.

Originally posted by djohnsto77
No, we'll get no credit. There'll be a cottage industry of international press and book writers trying to explain how Iraq turned out well despite Bush and all of the American mistakes though...

Yeah because its the rest of the world who are wrong and not you bush supporters... Not you few hundreds thousand, the other few billion who must be wrong right?

This is why people hate America, and its foreign policies. To you nothing you can do is wrong, its the whole world who is wrong, and like you pointed out you dont need permission to do whatever the hell you like on this globe. It made me laugh reading your remarks, im glad im not a part of the bush friends co circle jerk.

[edit on 28-12-2005 by HiddenReality]

HReality makes a good point. Who judges our right? When concerned with HUMAN RIGHTS we need to look beyond our borders. The world will only sit back and watch US Imperialism for so long. We are no longer the invincible military force we once thought. Our quagmires in the Mideast are affirming this. The planet is a better place without Saddam no doubt, but he was an international problem, not just a US issue. We all share the planet, so we better learn to get along, and make decisions for the greater good. We are outnumbered, and outvoted. Is this not the reason we have the UN? We formed alliances to ensure we would never overstep our bounds, and now countries who have stood by us for years and speaking out against us. When is enough enough?

One Love

Originally posted by feebus
In my opinion, Iraq becoming a great democratic nation could never justify the war on terror, WMDs, going against the UN etc.

I agree with this on a personal level. I cannot see myself supporting this war regardless of the outcome.

But I think that if Iraq rose out of the ashes and destruction to become a great model of democracy and freedom, the rest of the world would probably think better of the USA than it currently does. And that's not saying much. We haven't been well-liked and truly respected for a long time, so plenty of people would still hate us, just maybe not so vehemently.

Will Iraq rise out of the ashes and destruction to become a great model of democracy and freedom? I highly doubt it and cannot envision it. If that happens, you can expect a public acknowledgment from me about just how wrong I was.

Originally posted by HiddenReality
Yeah because its the rest of the world who are wrong and not you bush supporters... Not you few hundreds thousand, the other few billion who must be wrong right?

This is why people hate America, and its foreign policies. To you nothing you can do is wrong, its the whole world who is wrong, and like you pointed out you dont need permission to do whatever the hell you like on this globe.

Very true. Very sad, but true.

If i may add a little humour to this, here is a comparison of my stereotypes of America before this Government and after...

Before:

Rocky!
Fighter Jets smoking red, white & blue over American football games!
Universal Studios!
Disney!
White picket fences and big houses for cheap!
Cheap Petrol!
Statue of LIBERTY, NY City, yellow cabs!
Holywood
NASA
Brave WW2 allies.

After:

Super size me : Obesity problems.
President Bush: American's can't speak english
Government: Lies, damn lies and statistics.
News Reports of frontline US troops: Do they interview the rednecks on purpose?
American Media: Smoke screen. I think the best example of this was a report at the start of the Iraq war. On BBC + SKY + ITN + Euronews long detailed reports of US casualties and a major battle. FOX + CNN - A girl had fallen into a frozen lake and was saved by her grandad

And finally, the famous we're right and we don't care what you think attitude.

It's amazing the difference one president can make.

I think the Bush Administration has done a TERRIBLE job defending themselves, there are so many things they could have explained better. They don't have to let Bush speak all the time, saddly I feel embarrased sometimes for us Conservative-republicans when he talks. He isn't Charismatic, he isn't well learned, he doesn't have a broad Vocabulary, I'm sure he writes his own speaches.

Take a look at those that are in business only for themselves, and not for the Idea. Car Salesmen, Lawyers, and polititians. There are more I'm sure, but those are the main Selfish examples I can think of. They are here for themselves, and there are very few Lawyers that believe in right and wrong. There are few Salesmen that believe making the customer happy will bring them back, keeping a customer for an extra sale. There are few polititians that care much about the country, other than to do a satisfactory job in the eyes of The People. I believe Bush is one of these few. He was lucky enough to beat Kerry in the 2004 elections, even after people saw that he wasn't your typical president. He's no stereotype. The selfish are deceiving. You might think that someone has your best interests in mind, because they agree with you, but others might say they are going with the flow.

I feel sorry for Bush, two countries have been torn apart during his campaign. America, and Iraq. Though I think his actions, and intentions will come into light not until after we see some turning point in the middle east. Then America will slowly come back together... Conservatives, learning something now from Liberals about Etiquette, and Moral policies... Liberals, once the product of this war has emerged, seeing that things are not black and white. We will all be able to look back and say we learned something.

But, I also believe there will be no chance for this to happen, as I believe Russia, China, and North Korea are preparing for their own "Anti-Terrorism Campaign." I'm sure there will be claims such as, Western Civilizations Are the Real Terrorists. The time between "Winning the War" and emerging of the Victories Product, would be a perfect time for these countries to launch a Shock and Awe Assault, or even go so far as to launch WMD's during celebration of an Acclaimed Victory. Saddly, no one might ever see the result of a Democracy being established in Iraq.

I think the Bush Administration has done a TERRIBLE job defending themselves, there are so many things they could have explained better. They don't have to let Bush speak all the time, saddly I feel embarrased sometimes for us Conservative-republicans when he talks. He isn't Charismatic, he isn't well learned, he doesn't have a broad Vocabulary, I'm sure he writes his own speaches.

Not only does the above have nothing to do with the topic, but its amusing that you probably think having a charismatic lying president who does the intern is so much better then a straight talking man.

Anyway, I don’t think world opinion of the US will change very much weather Iraqi becomes a success or not. Iraq is not the reason for US hating its only an excuse, therefore Iraq wont be the solution for it.

I, for one, would rather have an educated, charismatic, caring man who cheated on his wife, than a dimwitted hillbilly napoleon any day. All politicians are crooks. This is not new news. Left, right, democrat or republican; Its all two sides of the same coin. If we have to choose between the two regardless, I choose the one who doesnt lie to start wars, doesnt strip our freedoms in the name of security, and doesnt sound worse than my validictorian's speech in high school. You can argue about his politics all day, but Bush is a buffoon. If you would rather have a buffoon that wont let gays marry, and will outlaw abortion than thats your choice, but to say that Clinton wetting his whistle even compares to the lies the current administration is pushing is just silly.

I apologize for being a bit off topic, but it enrages me to compare this lying crook to the last one. At least the last one had a reason other than power and greed...He just wanted a little nookie...

[edit on 28-12-2005 by DaFunk13]

DaFunk13 whatever floats your boat, I don’t want to get into all the “lies” of this administration so I’m just going to leave it at that.

I think we will still be know as the country that is always stickin its nose in thers buisness's. We just havent pissed off the right country yet