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OP/ED: A Version of the Origin Of Racial Tension In Sydney And Australia

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posted on Dec, 15 2005 @ 10:13 PM
After world war 2 Australia decided it needed to boost the number of emigrants if the country was going to survive and grow into a major power. Projects like the snowy mountain hydro electric scheme bought many europeon people into the country along with major industries like Australia's steelworks in Newcastle and Wollongong. These emigrants were called "New Australians" or "wogs" by the previous inhabitants. These NA's were employed into low skilled and factory labour, the dirty jobs as such that no-one else wanted. These migrants worked hard doing double shift and triple shifts and even though noone wanted these extra shifts the hard work ethics of the NA"s was ridiculed and scorned by others.

Enclaves soon sprang up around these industries in low cost housing areas. For example in Wollongong, a large industrial city one hour south of Sydney often called "Wog City" by residents and people all over Australia, These NA's were forced by situation to buy housing in areas like Cringila and Port Kembla and Warrawong that immediately surrounded the steelworks. The housing was low cost because of the proximity to the steelworks and the heavily polluted area that no one else wanted to live in. NA's fruit and vegetable stores and corner shops soon sprung up in these areas and became meeting places for the NA's to chat and gossip.

As the emigrants worked hard the money came in. Many of the NA's didn't drive and saved every penny of their money. Soon newer houses sprung up. Huge Italian, Eastern and Greek style housing of the like Australia had never seen before. The Ango Saxon Brits frowned on these huge "monstrosities" as they were called, jealousy ran rife. Children were born and started schooling. But they were wogs. The poor ones. White Australia scorned the NA's and the children were not allowed to mix with the Previous emigrants, the Brits. The children were laughed at because of their funny names, like Zoran and Lupe and Snezana and Zvonko. They were laughed at because their dress code did not conform. Australian children wear school uniforms and the NA's childrens were always slightly different. A blue shirt instead of a white one, long socks instead of trendy short ones. Sneakers instead of shiny black shoes, Long baggy dresses handed down instead of neat cute short ones.

Such minor differences earned the NA children such derision from the Brits. teasing began, your dads a dirty wog. Your dads a garlic muncher. Your mums a black witch. It was encouraged by the brit parents, the NA's were not invited to parties for fear of difference and did not extend invitations for fear of shame of their mothers wearing the traditional black mourning outfit. Many of these children could not speak english, more terms for more derision. And it worked both ways. the NA's were discouraged from mixing with the loose morals of anglo sax society.

The children were a minority at the time, many classrooms in middle class areas only had a sprinkling of NA's. These children were always left out and not socially accepted. Mothers groups scorned the parents of these children. Class meetings went unattended by parents who could not speak English. P&C clubs were left empty of these NA's as the parents did not speak english and the fathers were too busy working their "dirty jobs" in double shifts and triple shifts. No efforts were made to reconcile the races. The countries of origin were a mystery to the Brit children, the education system only taught British history.

As time went on and the children grew more ostracised from the Brits they naturally looked to other children in similiar positions. They formed groups where it was not uncommon to find Greeks, Italians and Yugoslavs all "hanging out" together. They understood each other, they knew what it was like to be the object of the Brits ridicule. Silence grew between the races. As the children reached teenage years the separation went further. Traditional heritage was kept and romances between the races discouraged highly.

Children followed their fathers into the low paid positions and the manual labour. But they wanted more, they had seen their fathers working hard all their lives, only never to gain the respect of the Brits. Here and there in pockets a few children mixed.

Game parlours and pool halls became the "hangout" for these children. Brit parents would not allow their teens to go there, its a bad place that. As the seventies marched on and turned into the eighties drugs became more prevelant and the drug trade was seen by some NA's as a way of earning good money fast. They had seen their parents work all their lives, be overlooked for management positions and still slave away at the same job they started off in. Soon the NA's took much of the drug trade off the Brits, manyvof the NA's would not indulge themselves but had no compunction against selling the products to the Brits. The pool halls and pinball parlours became a rife money making expedition.

Gangs were formed. Interracial marriages between the Brit children and the NA's was discouraged by both families. "Your not going out with a wog" "your not bringing a loose moralled Australian home to meet momma". Fine upstanding matriarchial church going Brits turned their backs on many an offspring who had the misfortune to choose a NA as a partner. Many of the NA's were encouraged to go back and find traditional brides from the old country, many marriages were arranged. "I am going back to Yugoslavia and finding a nice woman who has never seen TV before, she will be so grateful that she will come here and marry me and be the proper wife to me forever".

Brit children of the female variety had been taught more equality in the sexes and less traditional roles. NA' women were taught to cook and clean and keep house. But a funny thing happened there, more and more NA children had seen the light, they saw how the other half lived. The girls saw the freedom that Brit children were allowed and started to buck the system. They wanted more, the boys wanted more than to become their tired old father, too tired from working all his life with nothing left but to fall over and die of a heart attack from overwork, leaving a black dressed widow with no english to speak. Fathers had worked hard and many NA's were able to get a better education and the ones that wished to do so worked hard.

The few who crossed the divide were ostracized now by both sides. Romances had both sets of families up in arms. "Your not having a dirty wog baby to that, who know what you will breed". "Your not having a dirty brit child by that how do you know it will be your she has probably slept with half the city". For traditional nations who prided themselves on strict codes and virginity before marriage the sexual revolution had done nothng to bring the races together.

About this time the middle eastern migration began in earnest as families of refugees from war torn areas flooded the country. More differences, girls wearing headresses and boys taught strict moral codes had no time for the sexual revolutionized anglo sax women. The dirty wogs and the loose immoral Brits. The middle easterns were treated the same as the previous Wogs, they were just a new type of wog.

Australia had a code of family migration so soon families were joined by uncles cousins brothers grandparents. Because of lack of money and tradition whole families lived together in one house. Three bedrooms sleeping up to 20 people. Many a bedroom slept mumma papa and offsrping with cousins next door and granparents on the other side. This was frowned on by the Brits. Asians soon came in large numbers too and took control of other areas of drugs, the heroin trade at Cabramatta by the Asian soon grew into horror proportions.

The Europeons and then the Middle Easterns and Asians controlled much of the prostitution and drugs as well. They saw ways to made money out of a need. They were overlooked for standard high paid positions, had large families to fed so they got rich quick.

Then the next gen, this gen, the children of hollywood movies and fast cars, bored youth. By now the separation of the races was signed stamped and delivered. Whole family groups "owned" the drug trade. Unless you were family you didn't stand a chance to get in on it. More friction. The brits were the main buyers of the product, the NA's the main sellers.

Oh there was exceptions on both sides, but thats it small exceptions, by large this was the way it stood. Except for marijuana many of the NA's did not partake of the drugs, fine to sell it but bad bad to take it. The gangs grew from father to son. sometimes three generations being involved. Not unusual to ring a dealer and have his son deliver.

But this was not all over, many of the NA's were still strictly moral but had long learned to keep to themselves. The money started flowing. In a traditional family based culture everyone shared. It was all about family, thats all these people had. As time went on more and more boutique drugs were introduced and to tell the truth yes it was controlled by the NA's because the Brits would often fall victim to the product they were selling. Also the strict family code ensured a cone of silence. You couldn't break in if you tried unless your street credentials went abck to childhood.

This caused further divide, the NA dealers were loooked at jealously as scum by the Brits but what is failed to be noticed is that in business, any business, you can only sell a product that is wanted and desired. The middle easterns were accepted into the drug trade as they had a product that eveyone wanted. At the time most police were white, it became and us and them culture.

So as much as everyone can sit there and point fingers a these NA's for being the drug dealers, Im afraid the finger must also be pointed at the Anglo's that partake and buy the product. These NA people were taught from an early age that money talks in this society. After living with meagre toys as such, the NA children of this gen pride themselves with their fast hotted up cars, spiffy dress sense and national pride to the home country.

Circumstances forced them to be here and lack of acceptance furthered the divisions. This is what children on both sides saw growing up, going back three generations. It all started after the war. A new silent war began that is only just now seeing the products of that war. The riots in Sydney.

It's late in the piece today to start reconciliation, it is something that should have taken place many years before, when it first began. Back then though tensions were still running hot from world war 2. Fear of something new was a large part of our society. The New Australians were called that for just that, they were new.

More should have been done to teach tolerance back then, to share each others cultures in understanding and knowledge. To accept difference was not the done thing back then. Pity help you if you were a gay part aboriginal part middle eastern person, your life was hell. As the numbers grew so did the balance, the minorities together are now a majority in many areas. Generations of divide serve only to further divide. Is it too late to join together as one and be the nation that Australia could be? Has it gone on for too long now? Can we all take a step back and gain the positives from being a multi cultural society? We can only hope.

This is just a condesnsed version of a bigger story. Im sure that many will argue these points of view and so be it, everyones entitled to their opinion. This is mine from living it, watching it and learning it for many many years.

Related Discussion Threads:
The ORIGINS of racist mob violence in Sydney.
The ORIGINS of racist mob violence in Sydney.
NEWS: Racial Riots Erupt In Sydney Australia

[edit on 16-12-2005 by Mayet]

posted on Dec, 15 2005 @ 10:19 PM
very interesting perspective on the situation that is occuring in your country, thanks for sharing and giving us a little of the background of these built up tensions.

posted on Dec, 15 2005 @ 10:45 PM
As stated on the other thread (which I think U linked twice) that U posted on this in, I think U broke it down very nicely Mayet

posted on Dec, 15 2005 @ 10:50 PM
This is the story of America and every other country that has an ongoing, liberal immigration policy. It's called culture clash. It may not be right, but it's human nature. Today, we in America have our vocal, perpetual "minorities" (the term minority having been forever loosed from it's numerical constraints), but I, personally, cannot think of a single ethnic group that has not experienced this kind of discrimination, with the possible exception of the Mayflower passengers and even they had to deal with the natives.

I'm mostly Scotch Irish and Norwegian and I can tell you that the Scotch-Irish have a very long history of oppression dating back to the lowlands of Scotland to Ulster to the Appalachians, where we were constantly harassed by the authorities (read "revenoors," among others). We moved to the hills, so we could have some peace. We are "hillbillies" and the "rednecks"

My great-great-grandfather John Johnson and his wife, the Norwegians, died before my birth and that side of the family was firmly entrenched in the Southern culture by the time I came along, so I'm not sure what their story is. We were never obsessed with ethnicity. We are Americans.

This seems to be the gauntlet that all must traverse on the road to acceptance. Call it an initiation, if you will. It seems to be primal. Maybe, we will rise above such in time, but I wouldn't hold my breath, nor would I throw in the towel and give up the cause of assimilation, but remember that assimilation is a two-way street.

If all else fails, I will retreat up the valley of Virginia, plant my flag on the Blue Ridge, rally around the Scotch-Irish of that region, and make my last stand for liberty amongst a people who will never submit to British tyranny whilst there is a man left to draw a trigger.

--George Washington, at Valley Forge.

One day Donald Trump will discover that he is owned by Lutheran Brotherhood and must re negotiate his debt load with a committee of silent Norwegians who don't understand why anyone would pay more than $120.00 for a suit.

--Garrison Keillor

[edit on 2005/12/16 by GradyPhilpott]

posted on Dec, 15 2005 @ 11:10 PM
Good one Mayet, I'll have to read it in detail later as I'm going to a protest (in Melb.) against the recent outbreaks of violence. I got a text message. Go figure.

posted on Dec, 16 2005 @ 12:42 AM
I think you made too many generalizations. I'm not saying there isn't parts of the country where that has happened (both now and in the past), but from my personal experience just about every Italian, Saudi, Greek, Japanese, Chinese, Vietnamese, Indian ect. I have known has considered themselves Australian above all and hung out together in multi-ethnic groups rather than ethnic based groups. So maybe the generation I'm from is different to past ones, at least where i live. I'm not going to generalize but that is my personal experience, your experience is obviously quite different. It also isn't my experience that people marry into the same ethnic group either since my brother in law is Italian and my sister in law is Vietnamese. I have never felt any ethnic based hostility from my extended family, in fact i hang out with the Vietnamese side of my extended family more than I do with any of my other relatives because I share more interests with her brothers than anyone else in our family.

[edit on 16-12-2005 by Trent]

posted on Dec, 16 2005 @ 01:16 AM
Well I'd like to think of it as the bigger picture. This is how it was in the sixties, seventies thru to now. I am not sure how old you are now but the picture I have painted started in my childhood, in the late sixties early seventies and before in my parents generation. As said things have changed over the years but this is how it was and why it grew the way it did.

[edit on 16-12-2005 by Mayet]

posted on Dec, 16 2005 @ 01:39 AM
I'm 22, so I wasn't alive back then. So the best I can do is paint a picture of my childhood, in the 80's and 90's. Not that I'm saying everyone would have had similar experiences to me growing up during that time (I try not to make generalizations). I do have some cousins that live in a small town and some of them are bigots (I know because of some of the things they have said to me) but i don't see them much.

[edit on 16-12-2005 by Trent]

posted on Dec, 16 2005 @ 02:03 AM
I wouldn't visit them much either..

Like they say you just can't choose your relatives. Sad though

posted on Dec, 16 2005 @ 02:39 AM
I lived in a samll town after living in a big town as a kid. Loved the freedom and security, was young enough that I couldn't understand the bigotry. But the bigotry was wierd. My ethnic-Lebanese mate got no racism but the kids from the Chinese family that moved in and bought the Chinese restaurant copped it big 'cause they were outsiders and my mate was born there.

When I went back only a few years after moving away all my old firends had turned into closed-minded, small-town bigots stacking the shelves in teh supermarket or working in the sawmill.

Much preferred Bendigo, with its 150 year Chinese history. And Melbourne was awesome for the colours and cultures.

Man, I really thank my parents for exposing me to different cultures as a kid, when I was open and accepting of what I saw.

If nothing else it got me a stunning Khmer wife!

posted on Dec, 16 2005 @ 07:14 AM

Originally posted by fingapointa
Good one Mayet, I'll have to read it in detail later as I'm going to a protest (in Melb.) against the recent outbreaks of violence. I got a text message. Go figure.

pics here:

posted on Dec, 16 2005 @ 07:28 AM
I think its too general too Mayet, & not a realistic picture. I grew up in one of these industrial areas where migrant workers came in droves to live & work. It was us kids who helped make the communities all get together & have an understanding of our new Australians. I remember many many occasions in my own back yard, over the bbq dad made from bricks & a steel plate, the families all around us came over bring offerings from their countries......mostly Italians / Greeks / Maltese & Yugoslav in those days. All of us kids played together, all the families looked out for each other. We taught each other languages & how nice each others food was.

Many many of the people I grew up with & still know have a great appreciation of European culture & food, in fact, many of us prefer it to the Anglo fare that our parents served us up as kids ( you'll remember vegies boiled to a pulp, for example ).

What has happened can be more explained by this article I found......

Thought I'd go have a 'google' and found this info for you:-



As in the Americas the Lebanese first arrived in Australia in the late 19th century and were largely Christians from Maronite Catholic and Greek Orthodox background. They also assumed a similar position on the economic margins as petty traders, were referred to as 'Syrian,' and were often resented for their success. In Australia their Ottoman imperial origin meant they were classified as Asiatic and consequently were kept under close surveillance by local police who were required to report on their activities. (25) The significance of their classification was found in the development of the racialized immigration policy of the day. In the 1880s Chinese exclusion acts were introduced almost simultaneously in the U.S., Canada and Australia. The introduction of immigration policies in settler societies reveals its significance in shaping national identity and composition. In Australia these exclusionary policies of 'purification' culminated in an attempt to repatriate all non-White labor to achieve 'White Australia' at Federation, the birth of the nation as an independent state from Britain in 1901.


Lebanese immigration to Australia can be divided into three periods: the early period 1880-1946; the mass migration period 1947-1974; and the post war period from 1975. The Lebanese born population grew from 1886 in 1947, 24,218 in 1971, 49,617 in 1981. (29) What is immediately obvious in these statistics is the small number of Lebanese that arrived in the early period and even during the mass migration period and the doubling of the Lebanese born population within four years after 1975. The distinction between 'old' and 'new' communities was that the former were more cohesive, recruited largely through chain migration over decades and overwhelmingly Christian, especially Maronite and Orthodox. The social character of these communities was well reflected in the village community associations and churches. The most prominent leaders of the community were successful businessmen and these became presidents of the Australian Lebanese Association which had formed in 1949 soon after Lebanese independence. In Australia, Lebanese identity before 1940 was largely familial and communal before 1940 and became national and communal after 1947.

After post 1975, the influx of more than 20,000 civil war refugees who were largely poor, sometimes destitute and over half Muslim, transformed the character of the Lebanese community in Australia, especially in Sydney where 75 percent of the Lebanese born population were concentrated. Suddenly an overwhelmingly Christian Lebanese community was confronted with new Muslim immigrants and sectarian identity polarized by the war. The older community regretted what they saw as the passing of the old values. As one prominent businessman commented 'in those days, elders worked their guts out to uplift the Lebanese image and support Lebanon. They sacrificed time, money ... for no personal interests, prestige and status. These days things have changed. Leaders are motivated by personal interests, prestige and status. The "community" is deeply divided and leaderless.' (30)

This is just a couple of paragraphs from a rather large article which can be found here:-

and this view expressed by another forum user somewhere

When Europe split the Ottoman Empire and created countries out of thin air it established Lebanon as a Christian maronite state. It was at first mainly Christain but no more. The Syrian government had ignored international law and only recently withdrew it's occupation of Lebanon. They jointly occupied with Israel but Israel withdraw ages ago in line with UN guidelines. During Syrian occupation they actually trucked in Syrian muslims to increase muslim voters and to dilute Christain voices. Very much a form of genocide if you ask me.

So Europe decided where the lines were drawn and who lived where. Not a good start. You just can't draw lines in the sand.

However over time Christians in the whole of the Middle east have been forced out. Egyptian, Lebanese, Jerusulam everywhere they have gone. Mainly to Australia

Muslim immigration to Austraian has gone on for decades as well. Just that before multicultural policy they had to integrate so no wearing scarfs, protecting beach rockpools etc. Multicultural policy has empowered them.

Turkish immigrants come from a more moderate type of religous country and we have many but few problems.

Refugees are not assessed on their ability to provide for themselves so they are more likely to be economically disadvantaged.

So we have a group of people coming from an anti-christian environment, not skilled to get work and enter a country that has multicultural policy saying it can practise the very culture that got itself in war over, over there, over here!

So we have a problem

posted on Dec, 16 2005 @ 08:11 AM
Its a viewpoint a version. I wish more people had done what your circle did and mix and eat the food and so on. If that had happened then maybe it wouldnt be like this now.

I watched this issue for many years from both sides and all angles. This is what I saw. Im glad your stories different, I bet you are a very racially tolerant person, but many are not, as we have seen. Thank your parents for me, they sound like good decent good people. i really wish there were many people like that from the beginning. Sadly my family for one was not tolerant in fact they and many many many around them were downright snobs and racists. And not just them all of the schools, it was everywhere.... but i said all that, it was a brief version of a set of encyclopedia's sized story.

I dont discount what you are saying about the migration timeline. Theres always been Lebanese here but Im talking mainly about the mass migrations of the 50;s, 60's, 70's and 80's and still going on today. The ones torn apart from the wars in the 60's 70's and forward.

and really Kebabs wern't heard of in many areas before about 1980. I worked in the first ever Kebab shop in the shopping centre of Wollongong in 1984. There was maybe one or two scattered hidden in alleyways and back streets before then but it wasn't until the 80's that the food started roaring.. and how great is the food, all of it.. Baklava, doner kebabs, felafel.. ah greek food, italian food, yugoslav food, Turkish, lebanese........
* mouth is watering....

Brit food and cooking like my mother did is plain boring...meat and three veges, make sure theres one white one green and one yellow/orange vegs for a balanced meal... ouch...

[edit on 16-12-2005 by Mayet]

posted on Dec, 16 2005 @ 08:32 AM
I think you should replace 'Brit' in your posting to white person or white Australian.

Seems to me that you have an axe to grind with British people.


posted on Dec, 16 2005 @ 08:35 AM
Oh no I explained that in my first section. I was talking the British migrants to our country, from the first fleet onwards. See the only native Australians are the aboriginals..

If i have that axe to grind then I'd be grinding myself being of pure brit stock.....

No it was a term used and thats all. you can make of it what you will but no axes here.. I have an aversion to blood especially when its my families.

posted on Dec, 16 2005 @ 09:54 AM
Oh my God! Where do I start?

The Police have ALWAYS run drugs and prostitution. Those, Anglo/Scots police, and their, "right" white, public servant and politicion mates.

It's not surprising they "recruited" wogs as "front men" as not only did they have the intimidation power and promise of a rapid, protected rise to wealth, but quite simply, "wogs" were also more "honourable" than fellow whites, and could be better trusted not to "rip off" their "investers". A great deal of money is made in opening and closing 'gates' and 'markets' without getting hands dirty with the actual 'business product'.
They (wogs) were set up to be profitable for their investors while also being scapegoats and building "Anglo pride" by coping all the you have so well fallen for.

The same thing happened with the Lebonese that were recruited to run amok without the law of the land being applied to them. It was orchastrated from the top to cause racial tensions.

I'm one of those wogs who mixed, and guess what, there were so many of us that did it so well, one generation on, you'ld be hard pressed to pick 'em. Two and three generations on and alot of the kids couldn't name the countries of "their people".

When you "condence" something, you keep a little of all the elements. What you wrote was negative to the extreem.

My VERY large extended family came here in the early 50's, along with many of their European friends and we spread all over the country into many fields of employment, including education, medicine, ASIO and Federal Police.

I've never had a 'wog' boyfriend and the Brits and Scots families welcomed me as family. Infact, I can only think of two family members and one of the families friends, that married fellow 'wogs' and the Anglo spouses are treasured by the whole family.

Yes there are many New Australians who proudly practice and promote their heritage through the generations which wouldn't be the case if they paid a great social penalty for doing so. Why give up great food, work ethics and family responsability when you can share them?

The picture you painted was myopic at best or....(?) You may claim it as 'your' experiance but I can't believe you lack the education and travel to not have become a little more enlightened and balanced in your expressed view. Allowing "exceptions" doesn't get you off the hook.

"Australians" as a whole, mix very well, when they don't have the "right white" politicions and media using their power to make it otherwise, but somehow, as a nation, we've always managed to get over those policy and propaganda hurdles.

I'm afraid your publican, political, media, blood (and a little, bad, personal experiance?) is showing, again, in my humble, honest, concidered oppinion.

posted on Dec, 16 2005 @ 10:48 AM
Thats all fine Suzy, thats your experience and your version. You see it from your eyes, i see it from mine. Myopic that is once again your opinion. Bad experience? hmm where? My daughter I do not call a bad experience at all. I am as proud of her mixed heritage as she is. You are the product of mixed heritage, I concieved and gave birth to a product of mixed heritage... touche.

None of my childhood or teenage years was bad experience but to go into my personal history would take some time and put most people to sleep. Not travelled... hmm was there a spot of Australia I hadn't explored thoroughly many times over before I was 20? ... I think not. Proud to say travel is my middle name. Enlightenment? Ill leave the enlightenment to you thanks, I am happily living my life observing that around me. Lack of education? Hmm no that one doesn't fit their either. I got edumacated but good.

I noticed your wording ATTACK. hmm, instead of seeing someone elses viewpoint and experience, you ATTACK, why is that? Is it because it is different to yours mayhaps?

I'm afraid your publican, political, media, blood (and a little, bad, personal experiance?) is showing, again, in my humble, honest, concidered oppinion.

can you explain that again in English...?

[edit on 16-12-2005 by Mayet]

posted on Dec, 16 2005 @ 11:46 AM

Originally posted by suzy ryan
Oh my God! Where do I start?

The Police have ALWAYS run drugs and prostitution. Those, Anglo/Scots police, and their, "right" white, public servant and politicion mates.

It's not surprising they "recruited" wogs as "front men" as not only did they have the intimidation power and promise of a rapid, protected rise to wealth, but quite simply, "wogs" were also more "honourable" than fellow whites, and could be better trusted not to "rip off" their "investers". A great deal of money is made in opening and closing 'gates' and 'markets' without getting hands dirty with the actual 'business product'.

I thought they were recruited because the italian mafia had already proven it knew how to 'play ball' in the US?
I don't think it would've been an 'honour' issue in that sense but in the sense that police and other authorites have been at odds with lower class whites [underdogs vs tall poppies- a subject in itself] since the first convicts were forced to settle.. it's why kids are taught never to dob in a mate and why Ned Kelly was a hero not a villain.

I'd also like to add that the fact that I'm caucasion had the convict stigma to go with it [how long has it been now?]. For some reason some who's ancestors voluntarily came to the 'lucky country' looked down on those [skips] who were forced.. as though that meant they came from 'better stock'. Only a couple of my ancestors were convicts but my point is there is always some negative spin one culture can put on another so it's pointless going tit for tat about who's been more racially victimised.. lt's like somone saying that aussie whites were more likely to rip off investors than italian ones. What do you base that assumption on?

[edit on 16-12-2005 by riley]

posted on Dec, 16 2005 @ 01:18 PM
I think this is a large case of 'stating the bleedin' obvious'. Are we supposed to be surprised by all this? It is the nature of mankind, always has been, always will be.

People simply do not accept 'outsiders', although how they react depends largely on their own social status, with the more educated middle classes generally disguising their xenophobia more successfully.

I am an immigrant in a civilised European country, make every effort to integrate, adopt the language and customs of my host country, yet still I meet hostility most days from certain sections of Spanish society which simply do not, and will never, accept outsiders coming into their country. I have to acknowledge that I am never going to change them. I do not sit shedding tears or feeling sorry for myself. I chose to live here.

Who knows? If my daughter settles here and marries a Spaniard, maybe her children will be accepted in due course, but it will not happen overnight.

The story you write could also have been written about Great Britain. It is quite funny really when you hear racists spouting about being 'pure British', because if you go back far enough, just about every single one of them will have immigrant blood in them somewhere, be it Viking, Jute, Celt, Angle, Saxon, Norman or whatever.

Simply put, as a species, we are very, very slow to accept those perceived as being in some way different, whether that is because they are immigrant, homosexual, disabled, of lower intelligence or whatever.

In order to make ourselves secure within a peer group, we will naturally pick upon a group of people readily identifiable as being different purely and simply to prevent ourselves being the target of bullying.

Nothing anybody can do or say will ever change this. I am certain that, in a thousand years time, somebody somewhere will be moaning about minorities somewhere being singled out for abuse.

posted on Dec, 16 2005 @ 04:22 PM
I may have to retract "crediting" you with education if you couldn't understand my last line but I'm more inclinded to believe your choise to argue things, I did not write, is an example of 'your agenda', which I'm sure you claim you don't have, but the destinct lack of balance of your original post 'view', along with being well traveled and 'educated', would also argue otherwise.

It was very hard to read anything other than 'wogs' are drug lords or do dirty grunt work, from your original post whilest finding no mention of the entrenched, highly corrupt, "Pub culture" almost entirely run by 'Anglos' due to a licencing system that pretty well excluded 'wogs'. Again this is something we got from Government Authorities that knew the benifits of 'forming' 'public oppinions' and listening for dissent, at public watering holes.

As to the U.S. marfia, again, they could not have taken off as well without dodgy imports/exports etc. being 'rubberstamped' by those already in authority along with 'turnning blind eyes'. When it comes to " 'honour' among thieves", a sence of duty and respect for the 'boss' was still more alive among Europeans than the 'skips', who knew well from being sent here to make it easier for the future free 'new chums', that those in authority couldn't be trusted.

I fully agree with English-man-in-Spains post but would point out that somehow in Australia it is less so, probably due to our young age as a nation that hasn't had enough time to forget our counrties of origin and 'fix' a "pure" national pride.

Building an infrastructer 'from scratch' also gave all peoples who came and worked with everyone else, a sence of belonging, along with a choise of every climate and terrain, their homesick hearts could yern for, to be free to settle in.
Yep guys, where I currently live, we have even had two "White Christmas's" in my life time.

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