Jesus Never Existed. End of story.

Originally posted by skep
Kenshiro:
If your proof of jesus is that he was mentioned in the Kuran...well you ain't got much. The Kuran, best I can figure, was written much like the bible, by committee, over several decades by people who didn't know each other or any of the principal characters.
The best information we have is that there is no evidence that jesus was anything more than the construct of a tax collector called Saul, name later changed for proprietary reasons by people who didn't know him.
There is as much evidence for the existance of jesus as there is for the exiatance of the exodus...absolutely NONE!
skep

WOW, I must have pushed a button there!
You may want to take a look at eudaimonia's premise here that only the Bible supports the supposition that Christ existed. This is a very common mistake and my showing that Jesus is mentioned in other texts was to show eudaimonia that he was basing his theory on an incorrect myth.
You mention that the (Koran) was written by committee several decades after the fact. Can you support this? Were you there? Yes, the Koran has been edited a few times throughout history but that does not support your statement.
As for your statement that Jesus was just a construct by somoen named Saul, care to back that up? It has been pretty well investigated that the New Testament was written by several people so, your statement that it was all done by one person is going to need a great deal of proof to back it up.

Since the Bible as well as the Koran are unreliable in your eyes and cannot not be used to substantiate the existance of Jesus being a real person. What would you accept as proof? Here is the reason that I am asking. Can you prove the Leonardo DaVinici, Plato, Socrates or any great figure of history ever really and truely existed? Or are all these historical figures just creations of some writers' minds? I mena, can we really and truely be 100% positive that the writings of these people were actually done by them and not by some other person or committee?
Enquiring minds want to know
Edited to add:

There is as much evidence for the existance of jesus as there is for the exiatance of the exodus...absolutely NONE!

Are you so sure about there bering no exidence of the exodus? I am going to assume that you are refering to when the Israelites left Egypt, if that is the case then you are mistaken. There is evidence found in Eqypt that does indeed support the Exodus (myth). What most archelolgists debate on this subject is the exact timing of the Exodus and under what conditions it occured. There is a new school of thought that all foreign workers (read slaves) were released and driven out of Egypt during the times of Tut. This was done due to the severity of several plagues that had occured. Plagues which were common to the Egyptians of that time.
Kindly refer to the below link:
www.bibleandscience.com...

Heck even the modern day Egyptians beleive in the Exodus of the Jewish people back during the days of the Pharohs. They have even filed a law suit to recove all the gold that was "stolen" by the Israelites when the left Egypt.
www.rense.com...

[edit on 15-12-2005 by kenshiro2012]

Originally posted by dnero6911
I would have to say, you obviously haven't researched Jesus very well, because believe it or not, he said the exact same thing you just did...

i was going to point out the same thing.

Originally posted by eudaimonia
Look inside yourself. Change your ways and you will change others. Love is the ultimate truth.

thats funny, because i'm pretty sure somebody else said pretty much the same thing....let me see, what was his name again?

oh yeah.....jesus christ.

All sins are forgiveable except one, denying Christ. So please notice the small red dot now affixed to your person similar to a laser targeting device.

As you go screaming into the lake of fire please remember these profound words.........

"I told you so"................

and Christ is the son of God Almighty

This post is rediculous. Please research or atleast use common sense before posting. Jesus existed. Whether or not you choose to believe he was the son of God or a prophet can be debated, but the actual human being named Jesus walked the earth. The church and Jesus are not necessarily the same either. I see church as a big building, with a guy reading his interpretation to a book that I can read on my own, and then he asks for money. Its a business. Research on your own. Read the Bible. Hell, read any book. Its obvious you havent read many...

Originally posted by thermopolis
All sins are forgiveable except one, denying Christ. So please notice the small red dot now affixed to your person similar to a laser targeting device.

As you go screaming into the lake of fire please remember these profound words.........

"I told you so"................

and Christ is the son of God Almighty

why isn't threatening eternal damnation grounds for a warning?

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul

why isn't threatening eternal damnation grounds for a warning?

not that i agree with his posting that, but i think the better question to ask is:

why does it bother someone who doesnt believe it to be a meaningful statement?

Anyone who truely looks inside themselves will find we're all imperfect, subject to pain, illness, injury etc. and just as a most good and loving person may aquire brain injury, for example, and become a danger, after resurrection that person is made whole.

Look inside yourself and you'll find man can't save mankind, let alone spread or enforce love and goodwill to all. That is only possible through God.

The love, that is God, that is inside you, cannot be fully expressed, enacted through our imperfect mortal bodies. We still have to eat (destroy) and build shelters (destroy) for example.

The perfect love God offers us is too big for the small, imperfect mortal bodies we currently get around in but we can enjoy 'tastes' of it to the proportion of the Holy Spirit poured out to sustain us untill His return.

Untill the world is full of people of perfect love, we can't have a world of perfect peace and love. The only perfect person I know of is The Christ, who unlike any other 'enlightened' person throughout history is the only one who could materialize mortal needs without first destroying e.g oil, wine, fish.

If you truely look inside you will be humbled at how incapable of perfection our mortal beings really are and to want or expect that perfection from any other imperfect, mortal human being is not love but judgement, yet without it (perfection) strife and injustice will remain with us. To expect otherwise is pride, vanity and ignorance.

Doesn't TRULY looking inside yourself, tell you that?

Originally posted by snafu7700

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul

why isn't threatening eternal damnation grounds for a warning?

not that i agree with his posting that, but i think the better question to ask is:

why does it bother someone who doesnt believe it to be a meaningful statement?

it just seems like outright hate speech to me

but suzy, i've looked inside myself, i've looked long and hard, and i say that i am imperfect. i did not see god in there though. i also saw that almost all problems that a person suffers come from acknowledge the self. i don't see god, i don't believe in god, and i do believe that though we can't make the world perfect, we can make it a hell of a lot better than it is.

First of all, who needs proof? Believing is an act of FAITH! True Christians need no proof whatsoever, they simply need faith - which sadly you are lacking. However, in the event that you need proof - try reading the Gospels or Psalms. These are written by those who purported to be WITH Jesus during His time here.

Insofar as denying ignorance... Well, in order for me to succeed in such a mission I need to simply deny your post in it's entirety as it certainly embodies nothing but ignorance, not to mention blasphemy.

Finally, I too will pray for your soul as you burn in eternal damnation. It is not too late to accept Jesus Christ as your Savior and repent for your sins.

i've read the bible cover to cover, twice. i see it for its flaws, though it does have some good stuff in it. i just think that if there is a god, then said god wouldn't mind what path we took to becoming a better person.

also, jesus was considered a blasphemer in his time, as was the buddha, and many other great people....

and how do you know that i will burn for not accepting jesus, jesus doesn't seem like that type of guy that would do that if he had the power to...

[edit on 15-12-2005 by madnessinmysoul]

another thing, if i were to say i hope you get reincarnated as a raccoon that ends up as roadkill, you'd laugh it off. now, what do you think i do when i read/hear people saying that they'll pray for my soul while it burns eternally.

also, what type of just and loving being would punish someone for any crime, no matter how horrible, with ETERNAL punishment. that's an infinite punishment for a finite crime. does that make sense to you?

If you've read the Bible cover to cover, as you claim, then you would certainly know that God does not play preference to your "Religion",but focuses on HOW you live. He instructs ALL OF US to live like Christ. We are ALL His children and He accepts ALL OF US back into His flock even if we stray. In fact, the Bible is shared by many religions.

But I digress, to again stay on topic, there is plenty of historical evidence that Jesus DID in fact exist. Whether he existed as a prophet, a fisherman, the Son of God or other is merely a metter of speculation on your behalf. Again, it is FAITH that separates Christians from others as it is their FAITH that Jesus was the Son of God which makes us Christian in the first place.

And THAT, my firend is the END OF STORY!

What cracks me up is people who insist Jesus never existed...yet have no problem entertaining the thoughts and feats of these people:

Plato, Aristotle, Socrates, Thales, Anaximander, Heraclitus, Pythagoras, Alexander The Great, Julius Ceasar, Cleopatra and Mark Anthony, Hannibal (The General, not the cannibal), Ramses I and II (or for that matter, any Egyptian Pharoah, Confucius, etc., etc., etc...

If you're going to pick a historical document apart, why quit at the Bible? How about the Rosetta Stone, Plato's Republic, oh, and add anything (I mean ANYTHING) written in Sanskrit, Sumerian, or Cuniform. (All Pre-Jesus languages.)

They're all lies...right?



[edit on 15-12-2005 by Toelint]

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
another thing, if i were to say i hope you get reincarnated as a raccoon that ends up as roadkill, you'd laugh it off. now, what do you think i do when i read/hear people saying that they'll pray for my soul while it burns eternally.

Honestly, I could care less what you do when you hear that - laugh, cry, pout or celebrate - it's your choice. And No, I would not laugh it off - I would think that you are horrible person for hoping that upon someone. No one here is hoping that you burn eternally in Hell, however, many of us believe that the decisions you have made will lead to that. Not our fault nor our hope, simply your fate as a result of your actions and/or beliefs.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
also, what type of just and loving being would punish someone for any crime, no matter how horrible, with ETERNAL punishment. that's an infinite punishment for a finite crime. does that make sense to you?

Yeah, it sure does. God created man in his likeness and gave us a gift of Free Will. That means that YOU get to decide your fate, not God. God simply honors your choice with the very consequences that he outlined for mankind when He created us. If you repent for your sins and ask for His forgiveness, you will be forgiven. Just remeber, God cannot be tricked, so pretending to repent won't work. remember, it's freewill - YOUR choice. Be prepared to live with the consequences. Despite what you may think, there are things much more powerful than YOU at work here. Choose carefully - choose wisely.

i still haven't been provided with any cited evidence as to the existence of a judean named jesus who died on a cross after preaching a certain form of judaism.

Speaking of fools looking for strength inside of themselves; a weak and powerless human, look to the forum descriptions for guidance in creating threads.
Butt your head against that which you do not believe in theology, not conspiracy, as your thread was not created to discuss conspiracies.

Jesus was a man, a royal man, with direct descendants that go far back. From a historical point of view, he existed. He may have even had some type of other worldly power, but he was man, same as you and me.

The difference is people 'use' Jesus and God as an excuse in Religion, not as a faith to believe in. Kind of like blaming Santa when you cannot get your kid a gift, how many people curse God, but then pray to him at the moment of death. Faith by guilt, or, just bieng a catholic.


There is no end of story, and 2000 years from now, I am sure there will be another religion, and maybe the "god' at that time will be someone who brought a particular type of technology.

Open your mind, along with you heart, and maybe you can find something to fill the void you are attmepting to close.

Originally posted by kozmo
Honestly, I could care less what you do when you hear that - laugh, cry, pout or celebrate - it's your choice. And No, I would not laugh it off - I would think that you are horrible person for hoping that upon someone.

Is that what this means:

God created man in his likeness

Are you giving an example of how God wants us to treat each other?

in 4000 CE
someone will happen upon an ancient monument to a noodly deity
they will read from the saucy book
and wear pirate regalia

that's my prediction for the next superreligion

[edit on 15-12-2005 by madnessinmysoul]

Originally posted by thermopolis
All sins are forgiveable except one, denying Christ. So please notice the small red dot now affixed to your person similar to a laser targeting device.

As you go screaming into the lake of fire please remember these profound words.........

"I told you so"................

and Christ is the son of God Almighty

I found this rather appalling. Just because this Orc expressed doubts on Jesus existing, (and there is evidence that he didn't) Mr Fundie Christian damns him for being an Orc. Lol, your intolerance and rage burns through your reply. And you just further strengthen his case.