Is the Pentagon spying on Americans? YES!!

for the most part i agree with worldwatcher. only thing is i got the impression you believed the war on terror could be won in the first place. if that was the case, there i would say you were wrong. only because terror can be found in any disgruntled/mentally unstable person who has a grudge against the US way of life or government. in fact anyone can become a terrorist, even those you dont expect. that doesnt mean we throw away our freedoms for security. id much rather die then live like a caged animal, following strict rules and laws that if i dont abide by then i get literly caged or simply disappear to some concertration camp. if you want to say, "this president sucks i hope he has a heart attack and can no longer run our country into the ground" then you should be able to. you didnt threaten him saying something like "im going to poison him and make it look like a heart attack" that would be different. how free is freedom, and how free will it be for our next generation?


[edit on 13-12-2005 by grimreaper797]

Originally posted by worldwatcher
And not only are we losing brave Americans and killing innocent civilians, now we're starting to lose the very rights that those guys are dying to defend for us. I rather anyday that an American dies on American soil than in a foreign land.

I think you're over reacting. The current conditions require special measures, but frankly, and I've been around for a while now, I think that I have all the freedom that I've always had. Certainly, there is more opportunity for surveillance than there ever has been and we all submit to those conditions willfully.

I was watching a documentary the other night about John Wayne Gacy and the question was asked how someone with a record of sexual predation could have his serial murders of no fewer than thirty-three young men go unnoticed for so long and one expert responded that in those days, we didn't have the computer data-bases that we now have and that there simply was no way to "flag" a person like Gacy. In today's world, he posited, it would be far less likely.

Now the serial killers of the world will be bothered by that, but frankly, I'm comfortable with that situation. Now, there can be negatives and I will offer my own experience. I once lost my meds from the VA and I had to go back to get more. Now, I don't know what happened, but at the time, I was a student and I had a book bag with me at all times and everything I needed to carry and would fit went into that bag, including my meds. I hypothesized that I had not completely closed the zippered pocket in which I put them and either someone had taken them or they fell out.

I was flagged on the VA computer system for I don't know how long. I may still be flagged for all I know and that has been nearly twenty years. Do I care? No. What ever happened to that bottle of pills, it was unintentional and from then on, I was extremely careful as to where I kept my meds. It is interesting to note that when I had my meds mailed instead of picking them up at the VA and they didn't show up, all I had to do was call it in and everything was cool because mail theft was so rampant.

But the point is that because I had nothing to hide even though I could not prove what happened to those pills, I didn't care if they made me wear a funny, red hat every time I came to the hospital. Nothing was going to come of it because I was innocent.

That's how I feel now.


[edit on 2005/12/13 by GradyPhilpott]

point taken, but while you may not mind being "flagged", I do.

I don't think that as an American I should have my credit checked, my background searched, etc, etc, because of my non criminal affiliations.

and maybe it's over reaction, maybe it's not, but I think this is a big deal.

Originally posted by worldwatcher
I don't think that as an American I should have my credit checked, my background searched, etc, etc, because of my non criminal affiliations.

Well, you do have options. There are quite a few people who go about their daily lives, quite legally, though with some inconvenience, and avoid using those services that leave a paper or a computer trail. It is really quite easy to just blend into the landscape. I know. I've done it.

[edit on 2005/12/13 by GradyPhilpott]

and in related news.

From the Attorney General..
Reauthorize the Patriot Act

Gonzales urges speedy vote on Patriot Act

I guess it it is in response to this:

Concerns over civil liberties threaten extension of Patriot Act


btw grady, I understand and know, but why should I hide, if I live in Free Country? This is the United States of America right? I shouldn't have to fear my government.



[edit on 12-13-2005 by worldwatcher]

Originally posted by worldwatcher

btw grady, I understand and know, but why should I hide, if I live in Free Country? This is the United States of America right? I shouldn't have to fear my government.

Then I say to you, "Fear not!" If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear.

Your credit and background get checked all time in the private sector, the info is out there for anyone to see, what the big deal about the government checking it? Unless you think there should be no credit score or background record for anyone living in the US.

oye vey!!

I appreciate your responses and confidence that you both have in our country's situation, I hope for our sakes you are right, but it seems to me that neither of you ever take the time to consider the full scope of the issue. Perhaps it's the military background, maybe it's something instilled in you guys, but you just don't seem to get it. I won't argue the point though, I think I've expressed my thoughts on the story for now. We'll just have to see what becomes of it now.

dont worry worldwatcher, just as long as you stay at the bottom of the chain, do their slave work, pay taxes so that they can secretly steal them, and dont ever mention or call them on their faults, you will never have to worry about them. they wont bother you if you follow those guidelines.

its all cool till they start cheating you, once you find out and what to do something about it, then you become a target and possibly your a terrorist. but as for those who live in their own little ignorant social bubble, dont worry they wont bother you because you let them get rich, and dont care.

grimreaper,

Do you have any personal experience to add substance to that rant or are you just regurgitating the rantings of lunatics? There are plenty of people who deride the administration and the war every single day. Ted Kennedy comes immediately to mind. There are legal ways to protest what you feel is wrong and there are illegal ways to do so. Those who abide by the law have little to fear and certainly nothing like what you describe.

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[edit on 14/12/05 by The Surrealist]

A terrorist isn't just an Arab with a towel on his head, & a bomb in his backpack, at least not what the US will use as the only definition. They will eventually use that as a definition of terrorism, along with bank robbery, computer hacking, peaceful protest marches, you name it, it will be defined as a "terrorist action". Even comments like this one, will be seen as a seditionist, or traitorous comment, which could potentially be seen as turning people into terrorists if you listened to it, or I was standing on My soapbox & saying anti-government speeches.

This is what I meant about calling "terrorism" & "terrorist's" the "Straw Adversary" in all of My other posts throughout ATS when talking about the NWO & how they will treat us as American citizens.

The thing is, that "terrorism" & "terrorist" is such a broad ranged definition. It is not just Abdullah with a backpack & a bomb, at least not by the US Federal Government. The reason I say this...? Well, when you get things like the Patriot Act, & the "Lone Wolf Terrorist" clauses, you restricted our US Citizens rights that were given to us in our Constitution. Not only this, but when the President of the US declares part of our Nation a Natural Disaster, FEMA steps in & declares Martial Law.

What is wrong with that, you ask? Well...seeing how FEMA get's control of the US or whatever part of it that's had a flood, hurricane, sinkholes, etc, they literally suspend the US Constitution totally. You have NO rights, as a US citizen.

The "War on Terror" & events like 9/11 are all leading towards an eventual stealing off all of our American freedoms. The way they're going to steal it away from us totally, they are in the process of taking it away now, with people letting them willingly, is the "War on Terror".

Your Government has spied on you for years. Yawn, old News.

Ummmm... Who cares?

Personally, I am GLAD the Pentagon takes domestic threats seriously.

Originally posted by msnevil
Your Government has spied on you for years. Yawn, old News.

I agree

There are enemies of the US both Domestic and foreign. If they spied on someone like Timothy McVey alittle more alot of lives could have been saved.

Originally posted by worldwatcher
I wish people would read before commenting. If you took the time to read the article or even the paragraph, you would see that number of 1500 is relating to incidents not people.

Please read the full 3 pages of the article before formulating an opinion and making a comment.

I read the article and really I have but one comment which is 'So, what else is new?' They have been watching and following and monitoring since who knows when, the only difference now is that recent 'anti-terror' legislations have given the carte blanche to do as they please to the people that pay their salaries.

While I may be in the minority here on ATS in regards to the our military spying on us, others are paying attention so there

please read:
Early Warning

The database includes three categories of incidents: The first are actual, seemingly valid potential terrorism tip-offs. The second category of incidents are anti-war and anti-military protests by civilians. The third are security incidents with only the most tentative terrorism connection.


The second category of "incidents" -- those based on surveillance of anti-war and anti-nuclear groups, as well as students and others protesters -- should be disturbing to any Americans who care about civil liberties in this age of counter-terrorism because they indicate that military intelligence and local law enforcement agencies are routinely watching lawful protests.

But it is the third category of incidents that is the most numerous, the most revealing and the most corrosive. The hyper vigilant homeland security types probably wouldn't be monitoring the web sites, intercepting the Emails, and sending undercover agents into meetings of lawful and peaceful Americans if they had not accumulated this mass of self-perpetuating "threat" reporting that does little more than pad a database to suggest domestic dangers by sheer repetition.

Do people even read anymore?


[edit on 12-14-2005 by worldwatcher]

finally the government is doing something worthwhile...i don't need these crazy domestic terrorists and activists(and we all know they are one in the same) attacking us because of the inability of the fbi and local law enforcement agencies. wtg goverment

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[edit on 14/12/05 by The Surrealist]

Originally posted by worldwatcher
We have open borders to the North and South and every year the Immigrant population both legal and mainly illegal continues to rapidly grow. But our government doesn't see that..

Oh but I think they do, I think they're very much aware of that.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
The current conditions require special measures, but frankly, and I've been around for a while now, I think that I have all the freedom that I've always had.

You've been around, but obviously you haven't played alot of chess. I'd reckon whoever is behind all of this is placing the pieces, and before you know it, check ... mate.

[edit on 14/12/2005 by SwearBear]