are we afraid of what the bible tells us?

Why do people want to interpet only parts of the bible? They pick and choose what they want to believe. They believe in the new testament but not the old. They believe in Jesus but do not believe in what the bible plainly tells you about him. They say you cant take the bible litteral, but then they say that Jesus is the lord. We dont know that Jesus exsisted, the only proof is in the bible. So how can you credit one portion and not the other.I know this is a touchy and hard subject for people to grasp. It is hard to argue especially when you have to take great leaps of faith. I have started this thread because of my prior thread "jesus was not black".

There i made my arguments with use of the literal sense of the bible. Taking the stand that you cant understand what the origin or the teachings of Jesus where without reading the whole bible beggininhg to the end. Yet all i really got in response (with only a few bright exceptions was) "you are taking the bible literal", "i was taught", along with many other replies. When asked if they had read the bible many would not answer , instead choosing to ignore the question.....

my question is as follows........
ARE WE REALLY AFRAID OF WHAT THE BIBLE TELLS US

Originally posted by plague
Why do people want to interpet only parts of the bible?

If someone read the entire bible I'm sure they would interpret all of it. It is the interpretation of the different parts that differs. It is extremely difficult, though not impossible, to read something without interpreting it.

They say you cant take the bible litteral, but then they say that Jesus is the lord.

People that believe that Jesus is the Lord do not say that you cannot take the bible literally. Rather, they believe that some parts should not be taken literally, while others should. In light of this, your argument of espousing the idea of Jesus being the Lord countering the symbolic interpretation of the bible, does not work, because the person may be choosing to literally interpret the parts of the bible which say that Jesus is the Lord.

We dont know that Jesus exsisted, the only proof is in the bible.

What about the extra-biblical historical accounts of Jesus, such as Josephus, Tacitus, Pliny the Younger, The Talmud, and Lucian?

What about the Nag Hammadi library which contains more than 10 texts with sayings of Jesus, and descriptions of his life?

Are these not valuable sources of information, or proofs of Jesus' existance? Choosing to believe only in the bible, and discrediting extra-biblical information about Jesus, is no differint than picking and choosing which parts of the bible to believe.

So how can you credit one portion and not the other.

Is giving credit to portions of the bible done by interpreting them literally?

I know this is a touchy and hard subject for people to grasp. It is hard to argue especially when you have to take great leaps of faith.

Agreed

There i made my arguments with use of the literal sense of the bible.

And I've made mine...

Taking the stand that you cant understand what the origin or the teachings of Jesus where without reading the whole bible beggininhg to the end.

The same can be said with the texts in the Nag Hammadi library concerning Jesus. Remember we must credit all portions of information about Jesus, not just pick and choose which ones we want to believe.

ARE WE REALLY AFRAID OF WHAT THE BIBLE TELLS US

When reading the Bible a person may indeed be fearful, because they cannot bear to deny themselves, take up their cross, and follow Jesus. They wish to change, but cannot make the sacrifices that are needed. I don't think we can assume that 'we' as a collective are afraid of the bible, but certainly there may be cases of individuals.

I'll ask everyone a similar question if they don't mind:

Are we really afraid of what the Nag Hammadi Library tells us?

[edit on 8/12/2005 by AkashicWanderer]

I'm certainly not afraid of what the bible tells us since I think its semi-historical fiction and allagory at best. What does scare me are the people who actually believe it is litteral truth and then use it to justify oppression, hatred and discrimination of others.

You can study the Bible for yourself, either by reading for yourself and consulting any of a variety of commentaries, or you can look in a newspaper or the commercial phone listings provided by your phone company and attend free Bible study courses at churches in your area. You can also attend Bible classes at many universities. There are even free Bible study courses on the internet, but I know nothing of these, personally.

Google Search: Bible Study Classes

i was not discounting the other writings about jesus.. i was stating that i dont think you can believe in jesus but not the new testamentand i dont think you can except the new testament without the old testament.....alot of this is in reference to my other post "jesus was not black" ..where i waqs trying to point out that the bible was geared very much toward the hebrews and that if you read the bible begining to end you would get this...no i dont think that every single thing is "rock solid truth" and yes it does leave room for interpretation but on a whole i believe you can read it for what it is.....

i find that alot of people want to fast foward to the jesus part ..if you do this you miss the whole point of jesus and him being the messiah.......i however think hes a prophet as god states in deuteronomy

Originally posted by plague
i was not discounting the other writings about jesus.. i was stating that i dont think you can believe in jesus but not the new testamentand i dont think you can except the new testament without the old testament.....alot of this is in reference to my other post "jesus was not black" ..where i waqs trying to point out that the bible was geared very much toward the hebrews and that if you read the bible begining to end you would get this...no i dont think that every single thing is "rock solid truth" and yes it does leave room for interpretation but on a whole i believe you can read it for what it is.....

i find that alot of people want to fast foward to the jesus part ..if you do this you miss the whole point of jesus and him being the messiah.......i however think hes a prophet as god states in deuteronomy

I have read the entire Bible, and that is why I know He is the prophecied Messiah. I am strong in my faith and I have put my trust completely in the One who matters most! Jesus Christ!

Yes, I have to admit I did start with the New Testament (ie I "fast forwarded" to the Jesus part!) But then I read the OT as well. You cannot have one with out the other.

The OT prophecied about the Savior, while the NT shouts "Here He is!!!"

has anyone here ever read a book that they thought was really good, but then you get to a certain part and think "why the hell is this in here, it's irrelavent." that's why i think we should abridge the bible, it's got way too much filler.

understanding the bible is tough. try not to analyze it to much thats a mistake to do that..
now a days there is alot of info about the stories in the bible without all the filler in it..
i started with trying to read the bible but it
can quickly become somewhat tedious and confusing..then i started listening to church shows on the Radio, wich eventually led me to watching it on Tv. And now im a Ordained Minister :-)
it took along time to get to this point , but im glad here .

you should watch the church shows on TV. and listen to what the preachers say. go to Christian book store maybe and find the books without all the filler in it.
Heck alot of stuff comes on CD's and DVD's now a days.

are we afraid of what the bible tells us?

Seems logical since it is an individual's fear that serves as the only tool that can be used (perceptionally) to discredit the bible.


[edit on 9-12-2005 by Esoteric Teacher]

first off let me start by thanking you ...just me 2.....
im glad that there are others that believe you cant truly know jesus without the whole tex...begining to end........
i mean he does state that he is there to uphold the teachings of the prophets that were before him...you cant know these teachings without reading the old test. ( or you could read the torra ...spelling could be wrong)......but if you dont read the old test then you cant see the whole picture ..you are just leaving jesus as some one with a great philosophy...there too was once a man with a great philosophy also , his name was ghandi , but no one started a religion around him........which is why if you dont read the old test. you cant see that the religion was set in motion long before jesus was born.....

Originally posted by Briggs
understanding the bible is tough. try not to analyze it to much thats a mistake to do that..
now a days there is alot of info about the stories in the bible without all the filler in it..
i started with trying to read the bible but it
can quickly become somewhat tedious and confusing..then i started listening to church shows on the Radio, wich eventually led me to watching it on Tv. And now im a Ordained Minister :-)
it took along time to get to this point , but im glad here .

you should watch the church shows on TV. and listen to what the preachers say. go to Christian book store maybe and find the books without all the filler in it.
Heck alot of stuff comes on CD's and DVD's now a days.

i dont think the bible is hard to read at all..and what would you consider filler..there are alot of great stories all through out the bible with alot of good messages in them.....alot of people ask this and that about the bible and about god (in the christian / jewish sense of god and religion) where if they took the time to read it they would know these answers...

as for having someone else dictate to me what it means...i dont like that i will not even read the newer made bibles becuz the are already interpeted for you.....its bad enough that some of the meaning is lost in translation and that the they picked and choose which books to put in the bible....but now your going to let yet another person dictate the meaning to you....

also just so you know i do not lay claim to a specific religion or philosophy....just a pure love of god ...i do however love to read up on different religions.....i mean you cant realy believe that god only speaks to one set of people......so to say that the bible is the only authority on god is very closeminded .......yes in the bible he says not to whorship other gods ,but remember he was talking to the hebrews and was trying to set them on a path by telling them there his choosen people do this and this....he knew this as the only way to help them find there way......besides if he went and told them that everybody were "choosen" then why would they care to change????? in the bhavada gita, when arjuna asks lord krsna about other gods and religion, krsna tells him that he is the lord and that he is more powerful than these other gods, but that even though people worship them he will still redeems them because by whorshipping those gods they still whorship krsna because he is the lord and is everything....but then he says to arjuna that that is not his path that his path is thru krsna that is the way he laid out to him...just like he laid the path for the hebrews.........god loves all his children and will come to you when you are ready...he will talk to you in the way you will hear and understand her....the path is always long and hard ...and i believe different for everyone.....

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
Seems logical since it is an individual's fear that serves as the only tool that can be used (perceptionally) to discredit the bible.

I'm curious as to what exactly you mean by that.

I believe that the bible is based on fear. It was designed to keep people afraid. It has been used to turn death, which is an essential part of life, into something to be feared and delayed. It has been used to cover something natural and inevitable with darkness and uncertainty. How clever to make people fear and dread the one thing that no one can avoid. You cover all the bases that way.

The bible has been used to justify some of the most horrendous evil that humans have ever inflicted on each other. It and it's savage cousin, the Koran, are consistantly used to divide mankind so we can be more easily controled and manipulated to serve selfish and unscrupulous men who worship only power. Any truth that might be found in the Bible, and there is some, is without fail twisted and used to bring out the worst in people and then beat them over the head with it.

you should watch the church shows on TV. and listen to what the preachers say.

LOL!!!

Yes, lets listen to the Jim Bakers and the Jerry Falwells. Lets listen to the hypocrites for whom their followers are nothing more than customers. Lets listen to those who enrich themselves by instilling fear in others. Time after time, century after century these same type of people continuously lie and deceive but as long as they sell peoples own misplaced guilt and fear of the unknown back to them, people ask for more. Judging by the shiny cars these people drive and brazen lifestyles these monsters maintain, it pays pretty well.

You religious folks can rest easy though. Mankind is now addicted to fear thanks to these evil men and those like them. Your franchise of control, domination, and ignorance is assured for the forseeable future. You have kept self-loathing alive and kicking by teaching that we are all born weak, tainted, and unpure. If Satan actually did exist (which I don't believe for a minute) he would be mighty proud of the world's religions so far.

No, I don't fear whats in the bible. After all it's just words written by men. What I fear is what people do with what's in it.

There is absolutely no 'filler' in the bible. What may seem as such is only parts that don't yet make sense. So if you choose to dismiss them as 'filler' you risk filling out your own understanding...

I say this as a person who has read the bible several times over. I never cease to find more meaning in passages which before did not reveal themselves, each time I read it.

Yes, I have read the whole bible. I actually took a bible studies class as well.

Originally posted by plague
..where i waqs trying to point out that the bible was geared very much toward the hebrews and that if you read the bible begining to end you would get this...no i dont think that every single thing is "rock solid truth" and yes it does leave room for interpretation but on a whole i believe you can read it for what it is.....

As I pointed out before in your other thread, the Hebrews had most of the first writings.

Now, keep in mind that once there were events just like any other that happened in this world. After those events (floods, earthquakes, volcanoes) there were survivors who's stories were told over and over around campfires. Those stories grow as all stories do, until they are legends.

Now, the hebrews take these campfire stories and write them down (after being told in the oral tradition for hundreds of years) using their iconic writing style. Then this information is translated to many other languages (even though it's not accurate) and so on. Even today we only know 75% of old Hebrew. The translations are not complete OR accurate.

Looking at that as a big picture, you are talking about stories told that eventually made it to print and have been partially translated a few hundred times.

Originally posted by ZeddicusZulZorander
Yes, I have read the whole bible. I actually took a bible studies class as well.

Originally posted by plague
..where i waqs trying to point out that the bible was geared very much toward the hebrews and that if you read the bible begining to end you would get this...no i dont think that every single thing is "rock solid truth" and yes it does leave room for interpretation but on a whole i believe you can read it for what it is.....

As I pointed out before in your other thread, the Hebrews had most of the first writings.

Now, keep in mind that once there were events just like any other that happened in this world. After those events (floods, earthquakes, volcanoes) there were survivors who's stories were told over and over around campfires. Those stories grow as all stories do, until they are legends.

Now, the hebrews take these campfire stories and write them down (after being told in the oral tradition for hundreds of years) using their iconic writing style. Then this information is translated to many other languages (even though it's not accurate) and so on. Even today we only know 75% of old Hebrew. The translations are not complete OR accurate.

Looking at that as a big picture, you are talking about stories told that eventually made it to print and have been partially translated a few hundred times.

so what you are saying that is in books of moses where he goes and conmunes with god are handed down campfire stories.....you know when god gives him all the rules on how to govern his people and how to perform ceromonies and so on??..but ok ill go on and bite ..lets just say they are campfire stories... they are still at that point in time being retolled by the hebrews in thier tradition therefore definetly making the beginning of the bible geared toward the hebrews......now since many of the "campfire" stories are referenced all thru out the rest of the bible..either by mention of the act or the person or people in the act or there decendents this would surely continue to make the bible hebrew biased........

now if these are handed down stories ..how do you not know that the hebrews were not the ones who handed them down????? yea maybe moses did borrow the stories of adam and eve ...maybe he borrowed the great flood....but did you ever notice how the bible actually started to make sense when abraham was introduced....like maybe some one while compiling the stories decided that they needed a better begining then what moses had which would have started with abraham...funny how all three religions accept abraham as the founding father ...not adam ..or noah ......

Originally posted by plague
Why do people want to interpet only parts of the bible? They pick and choose what they want to believe. my question is as follows........
ARE WE REALLY AFRAID OF WHAT THE BIBLE TELLS US

Of course. It requires each individual to make a choice. To either accept Christ or reject Him. Along with the acceptance comes a responsibility, to listen to the Holy Spirit and begin to change from the inside out. You must reject sin and choose to live for God and with God.

It also requires people to not play stupid. By this I mean when you hear about Christ and how He died for your sins, you are faced with the most important choice of your life and you either believe it or not. A person can no longer say, "I didn't know about Jesus".

This also isn't a generic thing, each individual must choose to accept Christ. It's an act of your will.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
has anyone here ever read a book that they thought was really good, but then you get to a certain part and think "why the hell is this in here, it's irrelavent." that's why i think we should abridge the bible, it's got way too much filler.

Would you please tell me the filler parts? I am not asking to try to embarrass you but I am asking because not one word in the Bible is without meaning. If it's in there it's for a reason and there is something to be learned.

[edit on 9-12-2005 by dbrandt]

i think in most cases people regard everything except the part about believing in jesus and you go to heaven as filler.....you know kinda like they think just because youve heard his name and said this is my saviour that means your a christian and your going to heaven......kinda like sitting around on your couch and doing nothing but still expecting to get paid.......

Originally posted by plague
i think in most cases people regard everything except the part about believing in jesus and you go to heaven as filler.....you know kinda like they think just because youve heard his name and said this is my saviour that means your a christian and your going to heaven......kinda like sitting around on your couch and doing nothing but still expecting to get paid.......

I feel the need to clarify something. Believe is a good word used to use if you are describing your relationship with Christ, but there is something to be careful of because Matthew 7 says:

7:21
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

7:22
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

7:23
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity

There are people who believe Jesus existed but they are not saved, they even think they serve Him, but don't.

If you believe Jesus then you have to believe what He said concerning everything. He said we are stuck in a sin nature and as such committ sins. We are seperated from God because of this and destined for hell. When a person understands that and believes this then accepts the foriveness found in Christ that is when salvation occurs. Salvation is an acknowledgement on our part that we need to be saved from this sin nature and our sins. It's believing that Jesus is who He said He is, the only way to salvation and eternity with God. He said we have to be born again or we will not see the Kingdom of Heaven. Being born again is an act that God performs from the inside out.

After someone is saved we are to grow in our relationship and in the knowledge of who God is. This "filler" in the Bible is part of what does that. There are many things to be learned from this "filler".

Originally posted by dbrandt

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
has anyone here ever read a book that they thought was really good, but then you get to a certain part and think "why the hell is this in here, it's irrelavent." that's why i think we should abridge the bible, it's got way too much filler.

Would you please tell me the filler parts? I am not asking to try to embarrass you but I am asking because not one word in the Bible is without meaning. If it's in there it's for a reason and there is something to be learned.

[edit on 9-12-2005 by dbrandt]

to begin

well, i think the entire book of revelations should be cut out simply because it seems more like a guy took a hit of acid after eating some shrooms and wrote down what he saw than a religious text.

i think most of deuterotomy's frivalous laws should be cut (ie regulations regarding slavery)

the story of sampson is pointless, just kick it out.

the flood narrative can be removed, the original that's in the epic of gilgamesh is so much better

the first few chapters of genesis should go

you could take the 4 gospels and cut out anything that isn't mentioned in 2 of the 4, weeding out innaccuracies and shortening it at the same time.

cut most of the letters, just because they're bigoted, inconsistent, and the beginning of the corruption of christianity.

get rid of jude and job

and in my personal opinion if you removed anything attributing any improvement to the earth to any divine influence it would make everyone more self reliant.

those are just a few of the things i'd cut

and also, how many times does jesus say that he's who you claim he says he is? and how do you know that people didn't deify him posthumously?


[edit on 10-12-2005 by madnessinmysoul]