Can David Cameron be the next prime minister?

Just a couple of questions here and that's are British people ready to vote for a conservative government or do we still remember what John Major and Margret Thatcher did to the country?

That's a bit unfair about Maggie, some people do think she did an alright job. I'm not too sure, as that was before my time. I have a feeling that Cameron will be the next Prime minister for some reason.

What is the current conservative stance on the British military?

Well you can never say never I suppose but I doubt it very much.

For the tory party to win the next general election they need a record swing to get an overall majority and 'win'.
Still.
There is absolutely no sign of the UK 'feeling' anything like it did in 1997 (which had a 'swing' incidentally which would not be enough) never mind the greater heights actually required.
Face it, it isn't going to happen.

If they continue at the rate they 'progressed' last time they will take over 100 years to end up with an overall majority, as Ken Clark helpfully tried to tell them.

Basically I think that they aren't prepared to listen to the demands of and scale of the task that lies ahead.
They think the gimmick of 'Blair-lite' sufficient.

Labour are now currently 12% ahead in the polls, again.

The general election isn't until 2009/10 and by then Cameron won't look so 'fresh'.
Don't forget that large parts of the available 'talent' he has for his shadow cabinet have been around for a long time and hardly look 'fresh', 'inspirational' or 'new' either.
(Best leave that kind of nonsense for the Daily Mail to spout)

I have a feeling Cameron will end up like Hague and the others; he'll start with well meaning words of change and yet end up changing nothing of substance and in fact worse, retreating back to appealing to the tory core vote with no policy of relevance or substance changed and certainly no real appeal beyond the aging, reactionary and out of touch tory faithful.

The really interesting thing will be what happens when Cameron fails to deliver the record swing needed and the government tories want to see.
What then?

The Tories plan will be something like this (The same as it has been since 97)

1 Get new leader
2 Vow to win next election by responding to what the people want
3 Fail
4 Have leadership crisis
5 Repeat process

Ach. I'd rather that the Tories didn't get in. David Cameron I think has a wee bit of a harry hoofter face about him. Expect some sleaze to come about through this slippery customer.

You're joking aren't you? He's slimier than Blair. ..cant stand him. They might have had a chance if they had elected Ken Clarke but with Slimy smug git Cameron NO CHANCE

Ken Clarke is about as much use as a chocolate tea pot. I don't belive Cameron can do it but the protest vote that went to the lib dems this year could swing back to the tories.

In saying that if Gordon Brown is the next Labour leader then Cameron could stand a chance as Gordon brown is more useless then well ken Clarke!

Originally posted by Bengals for the superbowl
Ken Clarke is about as much use as a chocolate tea pot. I don't belive Cameron can do it but the protest vote that went to the lib dems this year could swing back to the tories.

Labour lost the protest vote, not the tories. In fact, the tories gained sits this time around as did the Liberal Democats - it was the Labour party who lost the votes on protest. [Iraq.]

If anything, such a young leader and the fact his ideas are not that right wing [from the looks of it] that many older members/supporters might swing to UKIP and the like.

I find this hilarious that you guys can slate someone whom you've never met, never heard speak and probably have no idea what his policies are!!

First for the post about the damage that Maggie did (note i'm leaving Major out cause he was useless). As I recall, Labour had left the UK as the sick man of Europe - a 2nd rate country. So bad, that we had to have an EU rebate to stay afloat! Through this, and breaking the backs of the unions that were bringing the country to a halt, the UK is now one of the richest countries in the world! Plus, even if you didn't like her, at least you knew what she stood for. When she made up her mind, that was it. Wishy washy Blair changes his mind depending on waht the papers are saying about him.

Now onto Cameron. If he is soo bad - why does the latest MORI poll show him as a clear lead over Gordon Brown in the next election?

So to alter the topic slightly? Did you vote in the last election - and if so who'd you vote for? Cause you really cannot bleat about the state of our country if you didn't even bother to vote.

Originally posted by Humpy
I find this hilarious

that you guys can slate someone whom you've never met, never heard speak and probably have no idea what his policies are!!

Really? Shame mate, his constituency happens to be Witney and mine happens to be Banbury, both parts of the Oxfordshire region. I've met him, spoken to him and watched his career since around 2001 when he won Witney.

Originally posted by HumpyFirst for the post about the damage that Maggie did (note i'm leaving Major out cause he was useless). As I recall, Labour had left the UK as the sick man of Europe - a 2nd rate country. So bad, that we had to have an EU rebate to stay afloat! Through this, and breaking the backs of the unions that were bringing the country to a halt, the UK is now one of the richest countries in the world! Plus, even if you didn't like her, at least you knew what she stood for. When she made up her mind, that was it. Wishy washy Blair changes his mind depending on waht the papers are saying about him.

That was down to the Labour Party? I find that rather amusing, since much of what happened during the years the Labour Party was in power was due to the fact the Conservatices had made pointless laws and alterations which caused a lot of harm. Look at the pension crisis we are in now and who lowered the age to 65 when it was actually 70.

To be honest, Blair has done a much better job than most people ever has for this Nation and although I am not a Labour supporter, many of his ideas did help but for the last 30 years this Nation has gone to hell and back.

Originally posted by Humpy
Now onto Cameron. If he is soo bad - why does the latest MORI poll show him as a clear lead over Gordon Brown in the next election?

And? To argue he is good on the basis he is better than someone else is a joke and I am sure you are aware of this. Someone can be bad for this Nation, but not be as bad as another person and the last poll I had seen showed them both being in the 30's...which to be honest, isn't a clear winnder but a hung parliament.

Originally posted by Humpy
So to alter the topic slightly? Did you vote in the last election - and if so who'd you vote for? Cause you really cannot bleat about the state of our country if you didn't even bother to vote.

I did vote, for "Your Party". [Independent.]

Who did you vote for?

Originally posted by Humpy
I find this hilarious

that you guys can slate someone whom you've never met, never heard speak and probably have no idea what his policies are!!

- I hope you are not suggesting that no-one can take an opinion on any politician they have not ever personally met!?
(In view of your Blair criticism I take it you would claim to know Tony Blair well then?
)

Well it's quite true that Cameron is a new face........but a new face surrounded by many many very old very failed clapped out tired old tory faces.
Talk about surrounding success with failure!
William Hague, IDS anyone......er.......anyone?

......and lets remember the public have just had 'new'.
New needn't be so great a quality and in any case there's a long long way to go until the next general election and his overall inexperience may well show him up badly between now and then.

It is also worth considering that perhaps after so long with Tony Blair maybe the public aren't going to be in the mood for yet another so 'new', so 'young' etc etc politician.
Maybe Gordon Brown's well know, slightly older (he's not exactly ancient himself) and much more experienced attributes will appeal so much more to our (aging) population by then?

As for their policies?
Well they might surprise us, afterall they have spent the last 8years supposedly 'listening' (God knows to what cos it certainly hasn't done them the slightest good come election time).

But I bet when the time comes we see yet another procession of policies as familiar as they ever were.

Plus, even if you didn't like her, at least you knew what she stood for. When she made up her mind, that was it.

- Sorry but I like democrats who welcome and respond to expert advice and the public who put them there and for whom they are supposed to be looking out for.
'Conviction' politicians have a nasty habit of being a little lucky at the start and then progressing on to being plain old disasters when that luck runs out and their 'one trick pony' approach no longer works.

The tory party ditched Thatch because enough of them could see what a disaster she has become for them and the country.

Wishy washy Blair changes his mind depending on waht the papers are saying about him.

- "Wishy washy"!?
Examples of that please, I'd love to hear what significant changing has gone on solely due to the papers here.

.......and does this "wishy washy" idea work with Iraq?
Cos if you are going to try and paint him as some sort of spineless coward over-responsive to the press here and the national public mood you are going to have a job explaining that one to me!

Now onto Cameron. If he is soo bad - why does the latest MORI poll show him as a clear lead over Gordon Brown in the next election?

- The last 2 polls had the tory party in the lead by 1 & 2% points.
The one before that had Labour leading by 12%.

It's showbiz, pure and simple.
Cameron was the wall to wall political news for a little while (and even with that barely crawled past Labour in a few of the polls).
Let's see how it goes and whether they keep it up.
Now is far to soon to get any idea, no-one is seriously thinking about an election no matter who is given as an option.

As 2007 turns into 2008 we'll start to see.
When the election comes in 2009/10 it will be even more obvious.

That's a long long time away.

My own view is the tory party have made yet another huge mistake in ditching their leader so soon after the last general election.
IMO he should have stayed on, copped the flak for making the enormous changes they need to make and given his successor the inevitable 'bounce' in the polls much closer to the general election.

Watch the 'new leader and not Tony Blair' bounce the hugely experienced (and previously extraordinarily successful Chancellor) Gordon Brown gets when he is the wall to wall political news and is elected by the Labour party as the new leader in a few years time (which will not be wasted, it will be done sensibly and with maximum effect near to the election).

Did you vote in the last election - and if so who'd you vote for? Cause you really cannot bleat about the state of our country if you didn't even bother to vote.

- I voted, I'm not telling you who for and yes I feel entitled to gas off about the state of the country if I feel in the mood.




[edit on 22-12-2005 by sminkeypinkey]

Originally posted by Humpy
I find this hilarious

that you guys can slate someone whom you've never met, never heard speak and probably have no idea what his policies are!!

.

Right and you have a briefing and dinner and number ten each evening then do you? If not then how can you slate someone you have never met?

I realy hope that the Tories never get into power again, Thacher absolutly killed off my city(Liverpool). Before Maggie got into power Liverpool was a thriveing city, but then she closed down all the docks and factories. Which caused a massive recesion in our city, which 20 yrs later is just starting to recover, she did nothing to help the working classes of this country. If you haven't noticed i despise her more then any one else in the world, after what her polices have done to my famaly.


The problem being with Camron is that i see alot of Thatcher in him, i belive him to be a wolf in sheeps clothing. So David Cameron

I am not a fan of Tony Blair but he, and Labour, have done more for this country the the Tories ever done.

Originally posted by picklewalsh
I realy hope that the Tories never get into power again.

Lets be fair, we can't judge a party from the ''then'' rather than the ''soon to be''.

Thatcher did indeed cause alot problems especially to the working class, I wasn't around then but I've heard the ''horror'' stories and I agree she wasn't overly successful leader, but remember that was then, and this is now with a different leader in a different Britain with different ideals.

Originally posted by picklewalsh
The problem being with Camron is that i see alot of Thatcher in him, i belive him to be a wolf in sheeps clothing. So David Cameron

I'm curious as to what aspects of Thatcher, Cameron reminds you of?

As an example that he is not like Thatcher:

BBC News: Cameron vows to defend 'free' NHS
Mr Cameron ditched the previous policy of subsidising patients to go private and criticised Margaret Thatcher's tax breaks for private medical insurance.

I know, scary isn't it, a Conservative saying that the ''old ways'' were wrong.

Lets be fair, we can't judge a party from the ''then'' rather than the ''soon to be''.

True, I just find it very hard to forgive that party, but you are right we musn't tar them all with the same brush.

I'm curious as to what aspects of Thatcher, Cameron reminds you of?

It,s nothing that he has done, its just something about him, a gut feeling if you will. I just keep expecting him to say 'This Mans not for turning'.

It's incredible.
A handful of comments and a swift bit of slick PR and suddenly some people imagine the tory party (which currently has no policies at all) is 'electable'.



Why on earth should anyone trust that Cameron (and that pack of clapped out living dead old tory 'shadow cabinet' he has surrounded himself with) have really changed?

What on earth is that supposed to be based upon, a few words.......from Cameron alone?!

Even if you are prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt why go for 'Labour-lite' when you can have the real thing (and not have any worries about all those old tory tendencies creeping out again)?

Let's see how it looks after the rows to flesh out his ideas (the Telegraph, Mail and Sun are already starting to make quarrelsome noises).

Let's not forget we already have seen some of his old ideas - he was a speech writer for Michael Howard and co-authored the last tory election manifesto.

In any case let's tune in to reality; the next general election is still a long way off.

[edit on 5-1-2006 by sminkeypinkey]

I am a huge fan of Cameron, but the next election is in 2009/10 and ALOT can happen between then. Its too early to say or judge the new Tory party. A party does not become electable within afew months.

[edit on 5-1-2006 by infinite]

Considering the NWO will be in power by then, does it really matter?

The smokescreens, U-turns and drift towards 'new-Labour lite' continues -

The Conservative party has announced a U-turn on student finance - now saying that it supports student tuition fees......

.....party leader David Cameron told sixth formers that if universities were to be well funded, the money had to come from somewhere.

Mr Cameron also pledged that there would be no return to the 11-plus exam or any expansion in grammar schools......

......The party's education spokesperson, David Willetts, also suggested that the voucher-style "pupil passport", providing state subsidies for private schools, which had been the party's election policy, was no longer on the agenda.

On higher education, Mr Willetts said policy detail had still to be determined, but that the party's previous opposition to student numbers rising above 50% was no longer a fixed commitment.

news.bbc.co.uk...

- Of course a couple of lines in a speech is a long long way away from an actual proper policy - and one which would appear to conflct with earlier talk about selection - but nevertheless one has to ask why anyone would take the vague claims of this crowd (basically on trust) when you can have the real thing without any of the risk?