Ray Nagin Saves New Orleans!

place the blame on nagin, thats right....because he is the only one to blame. its his fault the hurricane quickly built up and smashed the city, its his fault that he could have risked lives had he tried to evaccuate everyone and failed to do so in time, leaving numerous people out in the middle of a hurricane with little shelter and probably no supplies that they might have had at their homes. its his fault that FEMA proved itself worthless. blame it ALL ON NAGIN....we need a scapegoat.

Much of what Nagin did immediatly after the storm was mucho helpful however he has made many mistakes afterward.

Nagin used to be CEO of COXcommunications which is the major providor of cable, brodband internet and telephone services in then south/ louisiana.

Hi Mizar,

How's it going down there for you?

From my outside point of view, It appears that Nagin ingnored the potential for disaster, up until the last minute, when it was too late..Then Screamed about nobody helping.
THEN, when he knew everyone was looking, and starting to point at him, he bagan to actually do something..

At this point, it looks like is up to bad decision making again..

What's your take?

I feel that he took certain measures in the direct aftermath of the storm that helped out at the moment but him and his officals did not consider the effects of their actions in the near future. Now we are havign a few problems. I think he has indeed handled the situation in a improper manner . Yesterday he was on the news saying "I dont know if we can rebuild" which infurated me. You cant say that. I duno...

Originally posted by spacedoubt

Maybe we can get everyone a laptop too?

Didn't they loot them from the local Best Buy?

Mizar:

I hate when people say the city shouldn't be rebuilt. I hadn't heard Nagin say it. It's going to be hard to rebuild NO East and Lakeview.

I don't think people outside of the city realize that we have been hearing about the "big one" since our parents were kids and no one really thought it would come. When it did, no one knew how to react. I wonder if any city could handle what we have been through. I'm already worrying about next hurricane season.

Lily

What also bugs me, is the fact that people are still hurtin down there.
They still need the most basic of things.
But there isn't much coverage anymore.
We held a fundraiser just last week ( I sold prints of my photography). Ended up with about 5-600 dollars to send.
Not much, but our corporation matched the funds.
I still think this kind of thing needs to happen for the long term.

spacesoubt:

If you are still interested in the continuing Katrina saga, try local websites. I recommend www.wwltv.com. Katrina is the only story here.

Originally posted by grimreaper797
place the blame on nagin, thats right....because he is the only one to blame. its his fault the hurricane quickly built up and smashed the city, its his fault that he could have risked lives had he tried to evaccuate everyone and failed to do so in time, leaving numerous people out in the middle of a hurricane with little shelter and probably no supplies that they might have had at their homes. its his fault that FEMA proved itself worthless. blame it ALL ON NAGIN....we need a scapegoat.

I don't only blame Nagin, I blame Brown for being clueless and W for putting him there in the first place and then publicly praising him when EVERYONE else could see what a cock-up it was.

Okay, Nagin got Bush to go on telly and tell everyone to evacuate, but he didn't do anything about those who couldn't evacuate themselves and I'm pretty damn sure someone posted a pic of the NO fleet of schoolbusses sitting in a waterlogged carpark.

Still, not so much of a problem given that the Superdome is built to withstand 300 kph winds. So if you can't evacuate, get there and you'll be safe.

But we forgot to leave them little things like food, water, medical supplies, generators or anybody to control these items and co-ordinate the generalised chaos.

And I'm fairly sure I read Nagin saying he had no way of getting those people out. How about them busses, Ray?

Then it took forever for the NO authorities to come together to get back into their city. Why the delay?

Why any of the delay's?

You live in prime Hurricane territory and you're below sea level, why don't you have a play book of contingency plans bigger than an NFL team's?

Cos I can tell you the CFS, CFA etc have fire management plans ready to go in the case of a bushfire anywhere in their respective states. And except for HQ, those are purely voluntary services. Part of those plans includes educating kids about bushfire and constant public awareness programs in various media about bushfire precautions. And bushfires in Australia kill WAY less people each decade than hurricanes kill people in the US each year.

like i said you dont know the full circumstances

could you imagen being responcible for over say 20000 people being outside during a hurricane because your evaccuation call couldnt be met in time and may of them die? could you imagin the feeling of knowing how many people died because you didnt have the police force and aid to make such an evaccuation possible, but called it anyway resulting in many death?

we are unaware of the circumstances that occured, media doesnt cover anything. before jumping to conclusions, put yourself in their shoes.

you have to evaccuate MANY people in the hundreds of thousands probably in a period of maybe 72 hours? i would say you have a big choice to make in organizing this, especially when your help is fleeing the area leaving you and your people to fend for themselves.

Hello playbook.

Why was the help fleeing? Why wasn't the help doing its job?

How many schoolkids are (or were) there in NO who catch the bus? That tells me how many I can get on busses and get out of town.

Remember Aliens, remember the tannoy announcement saying "You have x minutes to reach minimum safe distance"?

Well Hurricanes are tracked 24 hours a day and if you're the authorities you know where it is every second of every day and where it is projected to go, that gives you several hours warning. So all you do is say the last bus leaves at xx time, which, given the possibilities of breakdown, puts the last evacuees we will take outside the hurricane zone by xx time. It's called systems management. Any film producer can tell you how it works.

And if I can't get them out, then I put them in the world's largest bunker and supply them with basic needs, such as food, water, generators and medical personnel.

Hello playbook.

thats the thing...the help was fleeing and not doing its job. dont ask me ask them. ask nagin and youll get a similar response. he doesnt have the power to force people to help. now let put it under the circumstances of lack of help.

they had a certian amount of time, but keep in mind the numbers they would have to evaccuate under the little help they had. think about the massive amount of people outside that you tell "yea well its too late go home because we cant evvacuate anymore of you in time, its getting too bad out now" think about how angry they would be at the moment you said that. now say you move them to the bunker (which in fact was the superdome) where do you plan to get this sudden amount of large supplies when the stores have locked up and left? where? no one is coming in to give them to you. and you cant get them from 99% of the stores. you definately dont have the supplies now.

after that i find a pretty similar story to what actually happened, minus the people they evaccuated. and those that werent evaccuated would try to file some sort of lawsuit because some were evaccuated while others had to stay, they would want to know why they werent all evaccuated. if they knew everyone couldnt get out in time why risk lives by bringing them all out there when they could be relatively safe in their home with supplies they might have already had.

Originally posted by grimreaper797
thats the thing...the help was fleeing and not doing its job. dont ask me ask them. ask nagin and youll get a similar response. he doesnt have the power to force people to help.

It's called Dereliction of Duty and cops can be charged with it, too. It's called "reasonble standard of care" and "negligence". One of which the government, and thus its organs, owes you and the other is the crime they are charged with when they fail to provide it.

they had a certian amount of time, but keep in mind the numbers they would have to evaccuate under the little help they had. think about the massive amount of people outside that you tell "yea well its too late go home because we cant evvacuate anymore of you in time,

Hello Superdome. "Sorry, that was the last bus to leave. The rest of you will have to take shelter in the Superdome, WHERE I WILL BE JOINING YOU, where we have food, water and medical personnel. Not to mention Family Services..."

Are you reading what I post?

its getting too bad out now" think about how angry they would be at the moment you said that.

See above

now say you move them to the bunker (which in fact was the superdome) where do you plan to get this sudden amount of large supplies when the stores have locked up and left? where?

Hello playbook. Do you know what Forward Planning is? How many days warning do you have when a Hurricane flattens Cuba?

Mayor: "Hmm, what are the possibilities that it might hit us?"

Lackey: "I don't know, boss. Let me call the storm centre."

Mayor: "What are our precautions?"

Lackey: "Let me call the police chief, the fire chief and the CMO and check the playbook and get back to you."

What it appears happened:

Mayor: "Is my private jet fuelled and ready to go?"

no one is coming in to give them to you.

Why haven't you already got them?

and you cant get them from 99% of the stores. you definately dont have the supplies now.

So the US has no compulsory requisition policy?

after that i find a pretty similar story to what actually happened, minus the people they evaccuated. and those that werent evaccuated would try to file some sort of lawsuit because some were evaccuated while others had to stay, they would want to know why they werent all evaccuated.

I realise Americans are fundamentally stupid and ungrateful people, but some of them might be thankful you saved and LOOKED AFTER them.

if they knew everyone couldnt get out in time why risk lives by bringing them all out there when they could be relatively safe in their home with supplies they might have already had.

But they weren't relatively safe in their homes, were they?

And, in case you haven't noticed, not all US residents own homes, let alone live in one.

And every evacuation guide tells you what to carry. So you give a list of what people should bring to the Superdome. Like toilet paper, tinned milk, bottled water and biscuits. and a couple of blankets if you can.

Then you have the Fire Departemnt bring in its barbecues and emergency lighting and you lighten the load a little for those sheltering. Provide a few acoustic guitars and soon you'll have choruses of Kum-by-ah distracting the people from the howling winds outside.

If you live in a Hurricane zone why does the city not a have an emergency management department of its own? One whose job it is to co-ordinate this kind of stuff?

All I saw was blame being shifted around after the horse had bolted.

Four people were involved here, everybody, anybody, somebody and nobody.

Everybody was responsible, anybody could have taken responsibility, if somebody had taken responsibility nobody would have had to resign.

But NOBODY took responsibility.