Are Von Neumann Probes the Unifying Theory of Ufology?

Doing some reading tonight on the The Physics of Extra-Terrestrial Civilizations, I found it interesting how some rather impressive physicists and astrobiologists suggest that an advanced civilization would explore the galaxy. Perhaps von Neumann probes are the answer to many of things people report seeing, including strange lights....

A dead moon rather than a planet makes the ideal destination for Von Neumann probes, since they can easily land and take off from these moons, and also because these moons have no erosion.

Doesn't this explain a lot of things? (not Roswell.. but....)
Are we being visited by von Neumann probes?

Excellent thread.

Von Neumann probes would be one of the cheapest and most effective means of exploring large areas of space.

Once you've created the first generation, the rest are essentially free.

Considering how much farther we've sent unmanned probes than we have sent ourselves, it seems likely our first contact with an alien technological civilization would not be with them, but with their own unmanned probes.

Von Neumann probes are a viable idea at first glance.

But anytime you begin to look seriously at the possibility of von Neumann probes, the next logical step is that you would then have to overcome Fermi's Paradox.

In 65 years, nobody has been able to solve the paradox.

But Fermi's Paradox doesn't rule out Von Neumann probes at all, in fact Von Neumann probes offer a possible explanation for why we don't see alien civilizations all around us. Perhaps most of them stay at home, and send their machines to do their exploring for them. Perhaps civilizations (at least those that survive) tend to grow into a steady state where expansion and colonization dont have so much appeal.

It's also possible that an alien civilization might learn to encode itself in the machines themselves, in which case there would be no need for massive engineering projects like a Dyson Sphere. Perhaps they have spread far and wide, but their very nature makes them hard to spot.

[edit on 11/27/05 by xmotex]

In addition to what the previous poster wrote, I suggest that Fermi's Paradox is not (and has never actually) been a paradox. A paradox cannot be a paradox if it's based on a false assumption.

Fermi asked "where is everybody?"

The fact that the evidence of extraterrestrial existence and visitation has been concealed and/or suppressed by the world's governments skews the basic premise of Fermi's supposed paradox.

In July of 1947, Fermi may have been able to answer his own question with a walk through the brush near Mac Brazel's farm. Maybe he could have looked up into the sky and seen them. Maybe he could have read through pages of classified government documents that give locations such as Wright-Patterson airfield, the Nevada Desert, or elsewhere.

My point being that Fermi's paradox is no more proof of the non-existence of extraterrestrials than the apparent "lack" of physical evidence. People almost unanimously believe that the government is hiding at least some evidence and knowledge of extraterrestrials. Until we know what that is, we cannot rely on Fermi's paradox to draw any conclusions.

Last quick thing.... maybe Fermi's paradox is just clever disinformation?

Hmm... I still wonder what the astronauts saw on the moon? von Neumann probes?

I still wonder about the lights over Phoenix and Gulf Breeze and Hesselden... von Neumann probes?

What about the many other sightings of unexplained, yet apparently intelligently controlled craft? von Neumann probes?

Interesting, isn't it, how our own scientists suggest that such probes would "awaken" during major technological advancements in a society and we have reason to believe that a significant increase in sightings occured immediately after our world entered the nuclear age...

hmm...

Mind bender of the day:

What if WE are the Von Nuemann probes?

Think about it... we could have been seeded on earth with the understanding that, eventually, the processes of dna interacting with/responding to this environment would have produced intelligence. The initial self-replicating molecule (the original dna strand or whatever type of rna it evolved from) could have been designed and planted hear.

So... does a von nuemann probe have to be mechanical?

does a von nuemann probe have to be mechanical?

I don't see any reason why it would, although I think that it changes the focus somewhat if we are, in fact, such probes. Or it just means that whoever created us as a means for exploration is very, very patient Perhaps that would also explain, however, the belief that extra-terrestrial presence and control on our planet, e.g., the draconians. They (or some similar race -- I personally don't believe that a race of dragon people run us) may have seeded our civilization and have returned to make sure we don't misue the technology we are given or develop on our own... and to make sure that when they want us to fulfil whatever purpose they intended for us, rather than decide to rebel against our creators.

I'm not sure I buy into it, but it's certainly an interesting theory

Wow, I've never thought of these thigns before... very interesting concepts! Especially at the end with the type IV+ civilizations, how they mentioned escapeing the universe... I've always thought that UFO's do not operate in the same "world" that we do, and perhaps they are the scouts of another dimension. Excellent thread, and some good stuff to really think about.

Yes, the idea is somewhat fascinating and makes a lot of sense to me. Given the time it would take to "explore" the universe in the conventional sense, why wouldn't an advanced race engineer machines to seek out natural resources, replicate themselves, and rather than "explore", spread out and "monitor" likely places where intelligent life might develop.

What if that is the case? Lets assume these are machines designed to "awaken" when they sense that a race has evolved to a technological degree that warrants attention. When our planet ever so loudly announced that it has nuclear weapons, the probes awoke, contacted the "homeworld" and then the actual 'scouts' came.

The machines may also have left markers for the scouts -- maybe in the form of crop circles?

There are so many aspects of ufology that this would explain, it's hard to state a complete theory... but the real question is this -- if these are machines designed to take notice of certain things and feed off of natural resources, then they are physical objects that can be captured and examined.

How do we catch one?

Bueller? Bueller? Anyone?