Chemicals Crystallize, Come Out through Skin?

My daughter came home yesterday horrified by what she'd learned at her school's "drug awareness" campaign. One of the worst things:

Crystal meth does not break down in the body - the crystals get pushed through the bloodstream to the capillaries, then work their way out through the skin. And it's itchy. She saw pictures of addicts with raw flesh down their arms from shoulder to fingers, where they had scratched to get the crystals out. Also, addicts collect the crystals excreted through their skin, and resell them.

Gross as that is - my question is this:

If crystal meth is excreted in this way, what about all the other chemicals we are exposed to every day? Do any of them crystallize or get together in the body to form compounds that crystallize, then come out through the skin? I'm thinking Morgellon's disease, maybe as a later stage effect.

Has anyone heard of this happening? Who would tell us if it did? Not the AMA, I don't think.



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soficrow,
I have been searching to find something to substantiate what your daughter was taught in the drug awareness class. Unfortunately, I have never heard of this before nor can I find any information that Crystal Meth is not metabolized by the human body and needs to be secreted through the skin.
I am inclined to beleive that what may have been shown was the effects that crystal meth has on the user.
Increased metabolisms
Decreased pain sensation
Decreased personal hygine (spel)
During withdrawl, the user does experience pain, and and the raw flesh that was shown, may have been caused by the users scratching the skin due to the pain as well as the itchiness that is caused by the deteriorated hygenes.

Effects of crystal meth:
Beneficial effects

* Increased awareness and alertness
* Greater motivation
* Increased thinking and brain activity (short-term)
* Weight loss (may also be an adverse effect, depending upon circumstances)
* Heightened sexual stimulation

[edit]

Adverse effects

* Compulsive fascination with useless repetitive tasks (see Punding)
* Severe psychological addiction
* Depression
* Amphetamine psychosis
* Erectile dysfunction (see "crystal dick")
* Long-term cognitive impairment due to neurotoxicity
* Tooth decay ("meth mouth")
* Damage to immune system
* Persistent anhedonia with chronic use
* Death
en.wikipedia.org...

The human body excretes compounds through the sweat glands of the skin, including, disgustingly, urea. That is why there is regular clear sweat from most anywhere on the body, and stinky sweat that turns shirt underarms yellow (for all you bastards out there who don't bother sweating, and all the ladies, who, as we know, don't sweat, but rather 'glisten').

So I'd say that its possible, and even sounds vagulely familar.

A meth addict might also constantly pick at and scratch their skin when they are in a bout of 'tweaking', where they get obsessive-compulsive and highly focused on one particular, irrelevant thing (and thus will take apart their television in a methodical way peice by peice, or stereo, etc). That might explain the rash also.

Originally posted by soficrow


My daughter came home yesterday horrified by what she'd learned at her school's "drug awareness" campaign. One of the worst things:

Crystal meth does not break down in the body - the crystals get pushed through the bloodstream to the capillaries, then work their way out through the skin. And it's itchy. She saw pictures of addicts with raw flesh down their arms from shoulder to fingers, where they had scratched to get the crystals out. Also, addicts collect the crystals excreted through their skin, and resell them.

Gross as that is - my question is this:

If crystal meth is excreted in this way, what about all the other chemicals we are exposed to every day? Do any of them crystallize or get together in the body to form compounds that crystallize, then come out through the skin? I'm thinking Morgellon's disease, maybe as a later stage effect.

Has anyone heard of this happening? Who would tell us if it did? Not the AMA, I don't think.

I HAVE heard of this too... though I never thought hard enough about it to question it's validity.

Nygdan makes some relevant points. Yes, certain compounds are secreted through the skin... though I usually thought it was small molecules, such as the Urea that Nygdan mentioned, other things include acetic acid, lactic acid, etc.

It certainly could happen...

With respect to other chemicals... I would imagine that depends on the chemical nature of the compounds... things like urea and crystal meth do readily crystallize... perhaps there's something to that... though this is entirely speculation.

I have heard, and seen, cradict addicts do this with their skin, insesent itching. IF you ever seen Chapelle's Show, the crackhead on the show is constantly itching. I wouldn't be surprised if this happens to methheads.

All chemical compounds have molecular geometry. These structures are very important part of chemistry as the structure explains a lot about these chemicals.

There are different forms and names that go along. A linear structure would look like a line with two spheres at the end and one in the middle; a trigonal bipyramidal would be two pyramids stacked at the bases with atoms at the at the corners and one in the center of the base, etc, etc...

As for crystals....I don't know as much about...

You can see some of these crystals with the naked eye, such as the brass on some doorknobs, others take a microscope to view, such as copper.

A good example of this would be glass. You have probably heard some people say that glass is a liquid because certain European cathedral stained glass windows have shown signs that the glass has been 'dripping' and building up at the bottom. This is not true that it is a liquid. It is an amorphous solid which because of the crystalline structure allows it to exhibit these characteristics.

As for methamphetamine, the chemical formula is C10H15N, what kind of geometry and crystal this is I have no idea. But the chemical structure is similar to amphetamine, so research amphetamine and find out anything like this with amphetamine occurs and see if it helps in your search. Or better yet, you can consult your physician or visit the drug section of a rehab center and ask.

Thanks for great info and ideas.

Here we go - some interesting stuff. Seems like the 'tweaking' and skin effects result from a vasculitis that affects the skin. In the past, it was assumed that impurities or contaminants in drugs made their way to the capillaries and then skin, but now, the reaction is considered to be a hypersenity vasculitis (disease/reaction in the blood vessels or blood vessel walls) called leukocytoclastic vasculitis.


leukocytoclastic vasculitis - cutaneous acute vasculitis characterised clinically by palpable purpura, especially of the legs, and histologically by exudation of the neutrophils and sometimes fibrin around dermal venules, with nuclear dust and extravasation of red cells; may be limited to the skin or involve other tissues as in Henoch-Schonlein purpura.
See: cutaneous vasculitis.
cutaneous vasculitis - An acute form of vasculitis which may affect the skin only, but also may involve other organs, with a polymorphonuclear infiltrate in the walls of and surrounding small (dermal) vessels. Nuclear fragments are formed by karyorrhexis of the neutrophils.
hypersensitivity v. (Dorlands) a group of systemic necrotizing vasculitides thought to represent hypersensitivity to an antigenic stimulus, such as a drug, infectious agent, or exogenous or endogenous protein; all disorders in this group involve the small vessels. Types include varieties of Henoch-Schönlein purpura and serum sickness, as well as urticarial v. Called also allergic or leukocytoclastic v. and hypersensitivity or leukocytoclastic angiitis.



Theories of schizophrenia: a genetic-inflammatory-vascular synthesis

"Neurotoxic effects of methamphetamine and coc aine appear to be due to induction of inflammatory genes in small vessel endothelial cells [122,137], thus explaining the vascular damage seen in amphetamine and coc aine abuse that was previously attributed to contaminants of injected drugs [122,138-140]."


...So what's this crud about re-selling the crystals pulled out of the skin? Like, what are they selling - and snorting, and injecting?



Anyway - this seems to confirm the idea that chemicals in the environment have a similar effect - standard allergic reaction.

Agreed? Or no?




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[edit on 18-11-2005 by soficrow]

Originally posted by soficrow
...So what's this crud about re-selling the crystals pulled out of the skin? Like, what are they selling - and snorting, and injecting?

Sofi... thanks for the links

Somehow I missed that point about addicts re-selling crystals pulled from skin... I wouldn't have bought into that. However... I remember where I recently heard this about the stuff recrystallizing... that A&E show 'Intervention.'

Originally posted by soficrow...So what's this crud about re-selling the crystals pulled out of the skin? Like, what are they selling - and snorting, and injecting?

It sounds like a nice recycling method.

Anyway - this seems to confirm the idea that chemicals in the environment have a similar effect - standard allergic reaction.

Agreed? Or no?

Just look at the back of the products you eat and drink. These things seem to be everywhere. Look at the back of a coke can and you will more than likely find phosphoric acid. Phosphates can be very dangerous and phosphoric acids have come under scrutiny of causing bone defeciency; forget about the fluoride conspiracy carbonated drinks are America's favorite consumed food/beverage and it has a chemical which might cause bone defeciency. The same is true for caffeine which may kill you if overdosed on.

Decaffe coffees have been said to cause higher cholesterol than caffeinated.

Table salt is composed of two very dangerous chemicals, Na+2 and Cl- as a diatomic gas (used in WWI). But when combined they greatly improve the status of pretzels, fries and chips, and they both achieve noble gas electron configurations in this ionic bond and it is the only rock humans eat!

I can say that I have had the unfortunate experience of seeing someone do this first hand.

Yes it is true, Meth will do this. Ever hear of the term scab eater?

I don't have too much to add here, but I have worked in a hospital setting before, and spoken to both patients and staff there. I once had a conversation with some psychiatric nurses once about crystal meth, and it does indeed come out through the pores of your skin. Apparently, you can even smell it when it comes out. I met one recovering addict who had to keep taking showers because the smell was driving her nuts.

Very interesting stuff. Thanks everyone.

...So I woke up this morning, went into my files, and wrote this.

Dorlands (quoted above) says "exogenous or endogenous protein" can cause the hypersensitivity reaction in leukocytoclastic vasculitis. Dorland's reference to proteins raises the specter of prions. So here we go again...

Many drugs are known to create misfolded proteins that then become infectious prions inside the body. In my case, an allergic reaction to penicillin at the age of five created a prion called "a-smooth muscle actin" (ASMA), which then infected my blood vessels. In my late teens, my doctor decided I was not really allergic to penicillin, saying, as I recall, that I was "only hypersensitive." He treated me weekly with penicillin injections for "chronic bronchitis" - until I went into anaphylactic shock and a coma from the "treatment." These exposures resulted in my acquiring an incurable and now untreatable disease called fibromuscular dysplasia (FMD). (1)

FMD is one of a large group of diseases that involve ASMA. In fact, FMD appears to be one stage of the disease process where ASMA uses the vascular and immune systems to spread through the body.

Notably, Fibromuscular dysplasia (FMD) is one of the most important mimics of vasculitis. Also see "About primary systemic vasculitis" below.


The important information:

1. Drugs, including prescription medications, can create misfolded proteins, which cause hypersensitive or allergic reactions.

2. The misfolded proteins can become infectious prions and spread through the body.

3. The "hypersensitive response" can involve blood vessel walls, organs, lungs, skin, and more.

4. Once created, these artificial infectious prions don't die because they are not alive; they may become 'inactive,' but retain the ability to replicate on contact with similarly shaped healthy proteins, by transforming them.

5. Infectious prions can be passed on congenitally, and may cause birth defects or genetic mutations.

6. Infectious prions can be transmitted via urine and other bodily excretions, and have the ability to mutate into new strains on exposure to differently shaped proteins, or environmental change.

7. While allergic reactions to medications and other drugs are not the only way infectious prions are created, the process is both known and important.


IMPORTANT NOTE: Although infectious prions can't die, and they replicate by transforming healthy proteins on contact, the reverse also is true - they also can be transformed from their infectious shape into a healthy state when they are outnumbered. Stem cell therapy is the only treatment that can provide enough healthy proteins to outnumber infectious prions in the body, and do so without creating new prion strains.



1. Vascular Effects of Penicillin Allergy

1954 - "A case of vascular-spastic penicillin allergy." Z Arztl Fortbild (Jena). 1954 Dec 15;48(23-24):810-11. KRAUSE I. PMID: 14360179

1981 - Dtsch Med Wochenschr. 1981 Nov 13;106(46):1541-4. [Arterial vascular occlusion in penicillin allergy (author's transl)] Martin M, Becker M, Adjodani B, Zeitler E, Havers L. PMID: 6796371

2. Primary Systemic Vasculitis:

"Although hypersensitivity vasculitis is occasionally idiopathic, there are multiple known etiologies, including medications, infections, malignancy and primary connective tissue diseases.

As described by Mandell and Hoffman,1 vasculitis-induced injury to blood vessels may lead to increased vascular permeability, vessel weakening that causes aneurysm formation or hemorrhage, and intimal proliferation and thrombosis that result in obstruction and local ischemia. Because systemic vasculitis can affect vessels of all sizes and distributions, it has a wide spectrum of clinical features. Knowing the size of the vessels affected in a particular patient is important, since vessel size carries implications for the diagnosis, treatment and prognosis of the disease (Table 1)."

vasculitis - inflammation of a blood or lymph vessel; see arteritis, lymphangitis, and phlebitis. Called also angiitis.

Pure meth is metabolized by the body rather well, and can't even be detected after about 72hours. What you daughter heard was half truth, so propaganda.

If your system can't effectively deal with toxicity via the liver and kidney's then it'll sweat it out. That happens for many synthetic chemicals. It will happen with meth, if the level of toxicity has breached a threshold to effectively deal with it from the liver and kidneys.

So basically, if your system is compromised, and/or you take too much, it'll be shooting out of your skin. I've witnessed this in a woman before. She had bumps all over her body, was rail thin, and a complete wreck, saying, "it's just this thing, don't worry about it"... yea, not touching you, woman.

The thing is, meth is enough to compromise your system in the long run. So it's an eventual outcome for most tweakers who continue to up the dose, and tend to be self-hating, not cleaning well, etc..

Shot up a bad batch and took a hot shower. I broke out in what I assumed to be hives. I could stretch my skin and a hard almost pimple like protrusions would appear. I literally pulled the biggest "piece" for lack of better wording out and still have the scar. Aware of hallucinations that meth can cause; I had a girlfriend confirm what I was seeing and took pictures.

a reply to: soficrow



Yes! You are correct .