POLITICS: Japan ruling party proposes having 'real' military

They didn't make mind control; they made a device that can make you move around by screwing with the fluids in your ear.
You can do a similar thing by spinning around really fast and falling to the ground because you are too dizzy to get up.

I think this is a very bad move.
We as a world should be moving to a disarmed status.
Nations should be reducing their armies and weapons and seriously working to form a one world nation.
Yes, I know everyone is scared s**tless about this concept, but if we are to survive as a species, we need to all work together and stop thinking up ways to kill each other.

Here's a rather blunt observation.
1 Japan probably has nowhere near enough people to form a decent Army/Navy/AF capable of protecting much more than Japan.
2 Japan has made rather intelligent robotics and is coming closer every day to a true AI.

I think the outcome is rather obvious,
Japan will build robotic soldiers to fill the ranks of Japan's new military.

To me this concept is scarier than One World Government.
You've all seen the terminator trilogy right?
It is the end for humans once robot soldiers that can think for themselves are built.

[rant]
What seriously needs to happen is for the UN to be reworked and given military power to actually enforce things.
IMO they are like a tree fort clubhouse that relies on the strongest members to enforce the rules.
Since they are the strongest members, they can actively not listen to the UN and no one can do anything about it, (the US war in Iraq)
[/rant]

Originally posted by xmotex
. The Japanese are using modern USN weapons and sensors, where the Chinese are still a generation (or two) behind.

[edit on 10/30/05 by xmotex]

I guess you havent been keeping up with current Chinese Naval tech

China's new destroyers feature Aegis tech

www.worldtribune.com...[/ url]

Or you might have missed their Hi-tech weapons shopping spree in Russia, Eastern Europe, and France.

Like the Russian Sovrenmenny-class stealth destroyers with supersonic nuclear-capable Sunburn [or Moskit] missile systems designed to kill US aircraft carriers they bought.

[url=http://www.afpc.org/crm/crm382.shtml]http://www.afpc.org/crm/crm382.shtml

Between the tech they steal and buy they are Hardly a generation (or two) behind.

Japan has a long history of democracy and freedom now; I think it's practically impossible that we'd see something like the Empire of Japan reemerge. Plus, they would be an important counterbalance to increasing Chinese influence in the region.

I think Japan should rebuild its military.

The two Sovremennys would have a difficult time with Japan's four (with two more building) Kongo class Aegis DDG's, a slightly larger and more heavily armed variant of the US Arleigh Burke class.

The Type 52C DDG's and Type 54 FFG's are just entering service, and there are only two of each. So that's essentially six truly modern vessels in their entire surface fleet. The rest are mostly variants of older Luhu and Luda DD's and Jangwei and jianghu frigates, armed with developments of the old Styx SSM, and most with little or no air defense.

In contrast, most of Japan's surface fleet is quite modern, most surface combatants being armed with 8 Harpoon's each, along with Standard SAM's in nine area AAW ships and Sea Sparrows on most others. Also they mount two Phalanx CIWS on nearly every vessel.

Kongo Class DDG:


Murasume Class "Large FFG's" (really DDG's):


In ten years, as more 52C's and 54's enter the fleet, the Chinese may be in a better position, as for now, the Japanese have a major advantage at sea.

If the fight was within range of Chinese air cover I can see the fight going their way, but on open sea I'd place my bets on the Japanese. Within the range of Japanese air cover, the Japanese advantage grows, with Japan's F-2's (an enlarged F-16 specialized for maritime strike missions) entering the fray.

Again, the idea of Japan as a "disarmed" nation is largely a poliical fiction. Japan has a large, very modern, very well-trained military. Certainly considering the size of their industrial base, Japan's military could be far larger than it is now (they could easily be a superpower if they wanted to), but Japan is already quite capable of defending itself against any likely adversary without US help, with the admitted exception of a nuclear strike.

[edit on 10/30/05 by xmotex]

Or what about their new Type 094 nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarines? Or the (stealthy) Molniya missile gunboat called a "small missile carrier of the 21st century" by foreign experts..

I just think its wrong to imply that China is two generations behind everyone in tech.

China is gearing up their navy much faster then most people think. In any war with Japan China could gear up production to levels that would make Japans head spin.

I appreciate that China is building a large modern Navy.

The fact is though that Japan already has one.

As far as production goes, the Japanese are still enlarging their fleet, and they have a considerable headstart. Also consider that Japan, while a far smaller country than China, has very nearly the same GDP. In fact Japan has the third largest economy on the planet (fourth if you consider the EU as a single entity).

In fact I think that is the most interesting facet of modern Japan: they could easily choose to become a global military superpower - they have simply chosen not to go down that road. It's not that hard to understand - during their run as an imperial power, they controlled most of Asia, but it ended up with their country in ruins. Since WW2 they have chosen to become a global economic power with a military sufficient only for self defense, and become one of the wealthiest most productive nations on the planet as a result. Not bad for an island nation with half the population of the US, few natural resources, and treacherous geography.

Or look at from another view point.

Japan.
Tiny Island.
China with hundreds if not thousands of missiles...

They don't even need to send a boat out there, they can cripple Japan as they build more and more missiles and boost their missile technology. The same way they would against Taiwan.

Not as simple as you make it to be, Odium.
You forget response and those who will give that response.





seekerof

Seekerof, if they used their Navy or Air Force it is likely the response would still have came. However with them nearer to China it would work out better for them while trying to defend...although if they ever do get into a war with one another it is likely it'll be an all or nothing affair for China.

Originally posted by xmotex


In fact I think that is the most interesting facet of modern Japan: they could easily choose to become a global military superpower - they have simply chosen not to go down that road. It's not that hard to understand - during their run as an imperial power, they controlled most of Asia, but it ended up with their country in ruins. .

Long gone are the days of WW2 when Japan could invade China. Trying something like that now and in the future would be suicide for any nation Military Super powers included let alone Japan.

Japan tried being a Global military power and failed thanks to a achilles heel they have being a tiny Island with no real amount of any natural resources . A achilles heel and they still have added with their now rapidly aging population and falling fertility which = shrinking workforce. Why do you think they want to make robot workers so bad? This will prevent them from being a real Military Super power in any near future I can invison.

Originally posted by mrjones
They didn't make mind control; they made a device that can make you move around by screwing with the fluids in your ear.
You can do a similar thing by spinning around really fast and falling to the ground because you are too dizzy to get up.

I think this is a very bad move.
We as a world should be moving to a disarmed status.
Nations should be reducing their armies and weapons and seriously working to form a one world nation.
Yes, I know everyone is scared s**tless about this concept, but if we are to survive as a species, we need to all work together and stop thinking up ways to kill each other.

Here's a rather blunt observation.
1 Japan probably has nowhere near enough people to form a decent Army/Navy/AF capable of protecting much more than Japan.
2 Japan has made rather intelligent robotics and is coming closer every day to a true AI.

I think the outcome is rather obvious,
Japan will build robotic soldiers to fill the ranks of Japan's new military.

To me this concept is scarier than One World Government.
You've all seen the terminator trilogy right?
It is the end for humans once robot soldiers that can think for themselves are built.

[rant]
What seriously needs to happen is for the UN to be reworked and given military power to actually enforce things.
IMO they are like a tree fort clubhouse that relies on the strongest members to enforce the rules.
Since they are the strongest members, they can actively not listen to the UN and no one can do anything about it, (the US war in Iraq)
[/rant]

IF The Japenese build robots all the united states has to do is EMP them and viola we have destroyed at least half of their army.

The robots will somehow fault because they don't have instincts or human decisisions. (IF you have seen that movie Stealth than you know what I mean, also if you have seen I, robot or any other robot science fiction movie I guarantee it says something about robots not having instincts and stuff)

Here's a rather blunt observation.
1 Japan probably has nowhere near enough people to form a decent Army/Navy/AF capable of protecting much more than Japan.
2 Japan has made rather intelligent robotics and is coming closer every day to a true AI.

Japan has a population of 128 million people, more than twice the population of the UK and a bigger economy. They have more than enough people and money.

Also, as previously stated, Japan has a first rate military. The only thing that inhibits it is lack of power projection and a pacifist constitution. Hence why each branch is called a "Self Defence Force" not an Army/Navy etc

Long gone are the days of WW2 when Japan could invade China.

Well I can't dispute that, but it says more about moden China than it does about Japan. China was in chaos when Japan moved in the last time, unable to mount an effective opposition. The same is not true today. As far as what it takes to become a superpower, it mainly requires advanced technology and industrial capacity, things Japan has in spades. They simply don't seem interested in global or even regional dominance. Good for them, empires are a thing of the past.

[edit on 10/31/05 by xmotex]

I say we all need to put our big guns to the ground and go back to hitting each other with sticks to solve our problems.

Originally posted by Conspiracy Theorist06


IF The Japenese build robots all the united states has to do is EMP them and viola we have destroyed at least half of their army.

No need for even a EMP Honda spent more then 100 million to develop Asimo (One of Japans most advanced robots) and its about as smart as a lobotomized cockroach. You could push Asimo over with a slight push with one hand and keep it down with one foot and little effort. Asimo also runs out of energy after 45 minutes.

A untrained human with a gun is about 100 times more effective as a killing machine then even the most adavanced robot out of Japan and they dont cost hundereds of millions of dollars to develop and have run times measured in minutes.

The idea of Japan using a robot army is quite funny. Humans are cheaper,more effective and the planet already has what 6 billion plus of them already made.

So if Japan builds up a military force, should they have nukes? That makes a bit of a difference.

Originally posted by jsobecky
So if Japan builds up a military force, should they have nukes? That makes a bit of a difference.

I think no country, not even the United States should have nukes. Its not even fair for the other team. I also think that whoever launches the war should have to fight on their own territory. Basically since the terrortists struck first on the U.S, they should have to host the war.

I think this is a signal that Japan is uneasy with nukes on it's borders and may cause them to build a nuclear deterent as well.

Time will tell.

This is kinda scary, but I remember there was a prophecy that said,
something like, Beware of Japan. That they pretend to have an allience with America. And in 2005/2006 they will Rebuild their army claiming to be helping America. This is the Great Deception. They will claim that their missiles are pointed towards Russia and China... but they all will be pointing their missiles at America. This will lead to the 3rd World War.

This was predicted Years ago... now I am alittle scared.

Even better, where2hide, is they will pretend to point the missiles toward Cuba. Then guess what, Cuba is only like 4o miles away from floida and they could easily make a shift in direction without the U.S knowing.

The North Koreans want a nuclear reactor for power, but then they will just take it apart and use it for missiles.

Also they will strike california and they will launch the nukes at L.A and San Francisco.