the colonisation of space

"I wonder whether man will ever get to these places in the realitic future (in 40-80 years), I mean Mars, Dione, Titan, and Venus. I suppose a serious colony on any one of these planets would neccessarily involve collossal scientific and enginerring organisation to sustain the colony in space... I imagine so for many centuries."


i wrote to a friend the above xtract on the feasibility of the colonisation of space.i am reminded of the failings of the shuttle etc, and so many failed missions in the world's space-history .. that sharpen the reality of serious space-development; what it really costs to put things into space.

to put a space-colony up into space, to my medium physiks-trained eye, does seem quite a demand. i envisage a colony would have to have efficiency and continuum, to serve a function in a way. i suppose there may be elaborate research or something, to origin itself; and project capital/funding for the colony probably wouldn't be difficult, initially .. though if a colony were in situ for something like a century, i suppose more permanent brokerage could be served up.

i, know that NASA and the americans are thiking of the moon and mars; places to colonise there ..

i'm not so sure the science generally, is sufficient. ideas of: pressurised- habitation on mars, for astronauts and coping with the effects of radiation, i guess water, or, lead-lined colony-walls; even in the event these colonies were 'sub' mars-terrea, and protected.

what would be gained on mars or dione or titan or the moon; that could n't be achieved in earth-orbit here , for eg, on the ISS. the prospects of war here on earth and in space, is continuing. how selective is a "REAL" space-colony- idea, from the standpoint of such inequality and denial home on earth. will, a fresh start to life somewhere else in space be any better than the polluted seas and the air we have to endure .. of our world.

MOD EDIT: Changed all the caps-locked writing to normal writing. Please don't post stuff all in caps. Thanks.



[edit on 10/26/2005 by cmdrkeenkid]

Not much I can think to say, but after reading the first part of the post, I do have something to say.

We could not colonise venus, like putting pressurised habitats on the surface, because Venus's atmosphere is so thick, that there is enough pressure to crush anything put on the surface, I believe I read that the atmosphere is equivelent to 200,000ft below sea level here on Earth.

[edit on 10/28/2005 by iori_komei]

A good reason why colonising might come about is the possibility of new elements being found in space.

Say for instance, an material was found that were 50 times stronger than that of titanium. There is a long list of possible uses.

Whether that would be vehicles, defence, weaponry. It could be possible. There is a lot of problems with space which are yet to be solved, but in time, things can only get better.

Unless of course someone decides to start a nuclear war and the people of this world shall be no more. But then of course the solar system is still here.

What a strange thought, all human life ceases to exist. Then Earth will be silent. Not much will happen and maybe in the future, some sort of intelligent life-form crosses space and find Earth.

Governments protect the people ears, from what they don`t want people to know. But life is a journey and instead of holding back information they have they should share with everyone.

Have it be, aliens, a past technologically advanced race. People should have the right to know, end of the day. It is the people who pay for all the research by means of taxes.

It just shows how the phrase "Everyone is equal, but some people are more equal than others," really does come into play.

Who is this hierachy and how has it happened.

For anyone who was bored enough to read this ever changing topical post then thankyou. Just processing a thought I had at this present time.

Originally posted by JohnnyUK
A good reason why colonising might come about is the possibility of new elements being found in space.

Say for instance, an material was found that were 50 times stronger than that of titanium. There is a long list of possible uses.

There will be no new elements to find in space, they will come about in a laboratory, and even then we seem to be nearing the end. Something stronger than titanium has already been found here on earth, diamond. The list of elements formed in supernova is limited as well as materials and elements formed in geological events (I would imagine).

If there is commercialization of Space, then it would be an easy step for colonization. But in order for that to happen the cost of lifting things out of earths gravity well has to be a lot less then the current $100,000 per pound estimate. (I think) But down to about $1000 per a pound or less.

A great way is to have autonomous robots mining the asteroid, for things like.. Iron that really can no longer be easily found on earth without special refining processes involved. Or water, taht can be used for fuel to propel and power spacecraft as they travel the solar system. Imaging the reduction in pollution by putting factories in space.

Currently the only people that can afford to explore and use space are the very wealthy, and powerful world governments. That needs to change and be availible for more people.

and btw, VENUS could be eventually colonize, it would just take a lot of engineering to create living habitats that can survive the heat and pressure, or terraform it

I think Jehosephat is right the only way to begin the colonization of space is through the private sector. Just look at our history. Why did Columbus sail across the Atlantic? To make money! Why did the europeans colonize the America's? To make money! And I think were doing it. Here are a few links on a new generation of spacial entrepreneurs(Bushism).

www.spacex.com...
www.transformspace.com...

And here's a good one on terraforming.

www.rfreitas.com...

Why did the europeans colonize the America's? To make money!

Well, technically the pilgrims who came over from England came here so they could have freedom of religion, and not be persecuted and not live in a "Catholic country".

Well, technically the pilgrims who came over from England came here so they could have freedom of religion, and not be persecuted and not live in a "Catholic country".

Yeah, but the people who sponsored them I think were more interested in the money, afterall the Mayflower wasn't free you know.

Pilgrims Financier Thomas Weston

We assume much. Has it ever occurred to you that of all the sciences, Economics is based upon human imagination alone?

That our current economic system is a matter of faith, prejudice, and class exploitation? And to what purpose?

We imagined this economy. And we can imagine a different one- one with human colonization of space as the end, one with earth-based social justice and peaceful co-operation as the means.

Do not let imaginary constructs such as currency and capital interfere with the organization of megaprojects for survival of the species.

Chakotay while I see the wisdom in your words I can't help but think that it doesn't help us right now. I mean we can strive for the society you invision but right now we are here stuck in a place were personal wealth and power are the driving forces behind humanity. But I believe there is a way to get there by just using what drives humanity now.

www.fishnet.co.nz...

i read this book called road to the stars, it was written in 78 or something

with the technology in use today, and a whole lot of money and effeort
it said it is possible for humans to coloinize the entire galaxy within 200,000 years or so

they did this by launching a "ark" type generation ship or something, and then it went to a habitable planet

a lot were sent out at the start from earth, then when they get to their planet, they as soon as possible build a new one, or a couple and send i out, until the entire galaxy is been populated

it would take a fair effort

I think one of the best reasons in the future to inhabit space will be mining. There is a platinum asteroid that is worth about $5 trillion or $6 trillion, as well as an asteroid that has more steel in it than all the iron on Earth.

Gold, Platinum, Iron , Nickel you name it its all out there in spades. Its access to near infinite raw materials.

As we get better tech to get into space cheaper and Earth's resources cant handle peoples needs space mining will take off.


[url=http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/solarsystem/reason_07_000723.html]http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/solarsystem/reason_07_000723.html[/ url]

You are quite right ShadowXIX in fact studies carried out by John S. Lewis who is a professor of planetary sciences and codirector of the space engineering research center at the University of Arizona-Tucson. States that a typical Amun class asteroid will be worth around 20 trillion dollars on the global metals market. Here's a link on how asteroid mining might work.

science.howstuffworks.com...

Originally posted by ShadowXIX
I think one of the best reasons in the future to inhabit space will be mining. There is a platinum asteroid that is worth about $5 trillion or $6 trillion, as well as an asteroid that has more steel in it than all the iron on Earth.

You would think that the private organizations trying to get into space would think this is a good deal? Imagine trying to get the volunteers to go out there for that long just to get things set up...

Sounds like fun!

Originally posted by danwild6
You are quite right ShadowXIX in fact studies carried out by John S. Lewis who is a professor of planetary sciences and codirector of the space engineering research center at the University of Arizona-Tucson. States that a typical Amun class asteroid will be worth around 20 trillion dollars on the global metals market. Here's a link on how asteroid mining might work.

science.howstuffworks.com...

Interesting link thanks Amazing amounts of money

I really think some thing like this is going to spark major space travel. Look at when sea travel across the Atlantic first took off. Those early trips were long , dangerous and cost a fortune, sound alittle like space travel now? They weren't going for the sake of exploring, national pride or to better mankind it was to make money plain and simple by finding stuff like gold and spices. People like the Conquistadors might have said they were going to convert natives or to explore the New world but the truth was they risked going for the promise of riches mainly Gold.

Originally posted by Jehosephat
and btw, VENUS could be eventually colonize, it would just take a lot of engineering to create living habitats that can survive the heat and pressure, or terraform it

I reckon that eventually some conservationist groups will be arguing against doing this. Probably with about as much success as they swing over governments at present too.

Originally posted by Frosty

There will be no new elements to find in space, .

The list of elements formed in supernova is limited as well as materials and elements formed in geological events (I would imagine).

I dont agree with this, I highly doubt every single element ever formed in the entire vast universe happened to land on this little speck on nothing we call earth.

The model of the universe does not even work if the elements we had on earth and can see were everything in the universe. Estimates of the amount of matter present in galaxies, based on gravitational effects, consistently suggest that there is far more matter than is directly observable.

Scientist sometimes call this dark matter but its really just a term of expressions of our ignorance of whats in the universe. Astronomers don't know what it is, but they know it makes up about 23 percent of the universe.

The universe is far too big and the amount humans have explored far too small to rule out anything yet.

im no expert, but i tell wat i know

in the start, the only element was hydrogen

it fused to make helium, and so on.

they fuse in side of stars and in supernovas and stuff.

after iron, the elements have a tendency to undergo fission more readily then fusion, i think.

im not real sure

any way the reason that the highest elements, such as 112 and so on,
dont exist in nature because they deacy to faast they are so unstable.

what use would a element 230 be any way? it would be so dense.

the other mass in the universe is thought to be "dark matter" which could be just huge lumps of coal in intergalatic space, that we cant see or detect otherwise.

Originally posted by ShadowXIX
I dont agree with this, I highly doubt every single element ever formed in the entire vast universe happened to land on this little speck on nothing we call earth.

I agree with frosty however. We can synthesize just about any element right here on earth. What we might find however is exotic molecules and maybe even new isotopes of well known elements. We will probably synthesize stable superheavies(the theoretical "island of stability") way before we find it on another planet.

Originally posted by sardion2000
What we might find however is exotic molecules and maybe even new isotopes of well known elements. We will probably synthesize stable superheavies(the theoretical "island of stability") way before we find it on another planet.

Wait so our best Scientists cant say what dark matter is but you know for sure what we will find?It is impossible to speculate which specific supernovae created the heavy elements that ended up in a specific solar system

Heres something to think about

Powerful and unpredictable flares of energy called superbursts strike beneath the surfaces of a few special neutron stars--the dense, spinning corpses of stars that died in supernova explosions. Orbiting telescopes have spotted seven superbursts so far, spouting intense x-rays for hours. Even more compelling than the fireworks is the root cause: a thermonuclear flash of heavy elements, burning in ways that might occur nowhere else.

link

We have no clue what is really going on in the hearts of things like neurtons stars. They could create new elements since they are burning in ways that no other star can, and we could never recreate the exact conditions of neutron stars here on earth. Well unless we can create gravity machines that can make a cubic centimetre of matter weigh billions of tons here on earth.