NEWS: Taliban Drug Lord Extradited To USA

A drug lord, Mr Baz Mohammed with links to the Taliban has been extradited to the USA to answer charges of conspiring to smuggling $25 million of heroin into the USA and onto the streets, in an operation he called "Jihad". Mr Mohammed called the smuggling "Jihad" because he said that they took the Americans' money and at the same time the heroin was killing Americans. Mr Mohammed controlled opium poppy fields in the Nangrahar province of Afghanistan and used Pakistan and Afghan laboratories to turn the poppies into heroin.



So now the USA is going into other countries and arresting citizens to extradite to the USA to face charges. Umm this is wrong. USA laws are not other peoples laws. This changes the whole state of world politics. This man has probably never set foot on US soil. Yes I realise the crime is serious and heroin is a problem the whole world faces but the ramifications of this one case is incredible.

This is one minefield insidiously planted that all citizens the world over should be wary of. Where does this line get drawn.

Looks like Baz Mohammed is a popular name in the Nangrahar province. While researching this story and reading about the poppies in the area I stumbled across this article below ragarding a Mr Baz Mohammed's death in a scuffle with police over Opium poppies.

Opium Poppies Defy Ban.
At least one person has been killed in Nangrahar province.
In February, in the Khogyani, Wazeer and Agam districts of Nangrahar, authorities had to flee from uprisings by local residents, who threw stones and in a few cases shot at police.
Mohammad Hassan, a resident of Akhundzada village of Wazeer district, and village leader Haji Dawa Jan from Agam district, told IWPR that the authorities had come to uproot the poppies but were turned back. “The local people opened fire on them and the authorities were unable to retaliate, so they fled. They haven’t come back since,” he said.
The military commander in Nangrahar province, Lieutenant-General Hazrat Ali, denied that his men were afraid. “We are definitely going to uproot poppies this year, because this industry disgraces us before the whole world and blocks aid from other countries. Anybody who disobeys will be responsible for the consequences,” he warned.
Also in February, one man, Baz Mohammad, was killed and two others were injured when residents clashed with police attempting to uproot poppies in Shinwari district, also in Nangrahar locals told IWPR.
Mirwais Yasini, director-general of the government’s counter-narcotics department, denied that Baz Mohammad was shot in a scuffle over poppies, but confirmed that two people had been injured. He added that Karzai’s ban has been respected in some provinces and even in parts of Nangrahar.

I am also noticing an increasing trend of calling The United States of America, just the "United States" . Once it was called USA or America, it has only been recenly that everywhere you look it is now "US" or "United States"

I agree Mayet. I was thinking the exact same thing just from looking at your headline. It reminded me straight away of the United States extraditing a former Russian cabinet member on charges of committing fraud...in Russia.

NEWS: Switzerland to Extradite Russian Nuke Chief to U.S.

This is really not an avenue the World should be going down. The United States opposed the International Criminal Court for the very same reasons Mayet and myself have in this instance. Consolidating the World's judicial process into one place, with one agenda and with one point of view doesn't allow for true justice. Insofar as it suborns other nations to the will of other countries.

This behaviour is not unprecedented by any stretch of the imagination but it is a behaviour that should be stopped. The United States has no authority or mandate to solely police the World and they shouldn't even try.

[edit on 24/10/05 by subz]

you two are funny, oh smuggling drugs into our country and we have no right to stop it? since when? you act like this is new and only by the US.

ps: the US is a party to the ICJ, dont make up facts.

[edit on 24-10-2005 by namehere]

I read the article Mayet supplied, and this is what I see:

Mohammad, who was arrested in Afghanistan in January, was extradited on Friday.

I don't see anything wrong with this. The article doesn't state who arrested him; are you implying that the USA arrested him: The United States has no authority or mandate to solely police the World and they shouldn't even try.

By that logic, do you think it would be wrong for the US to arrest bin Laden?

Or are you against extradition treaties between countries in general?

Btw, this

Insofar as it suborns other nations to the will of other countries.

isn't happening. Both Mexico and Britain won't extradite criminals here who may face the death penalty.


[edit on 24-10-2005 by jsobecky]

Mayet,

I notice that this is your second post this week complaining about a Heroin smuggler being arrested.

Is there something you need to tell us?

Originally posted by namehere
you two are funny, oh smuggling drugs into our country and we have no right to stop it? since when? you act like this is new and only by the US.

How about stop it entering your country by arresting those in America who import it? The United States doesn't have jurisdiction over crimes committed outside United States territory. This Drug Lord has never set foot in the United States hence he has not broken any American law. That enough reasoning for you?

The United States can help the Afghanis capture this guy, they can also help the Afghanis try him by providing evidence of his crimes. But they cannot try him in an American court if he hasn't broken any American laws in America.

Originally posted by jsobecky
I read the article Mayet supplied, and this is what I see:

I don't see anything wrong with this. The article doesn't state who arrested him; are you implying that the USA arrested him: The United States has no authority or mandate to solely police the World and they shouldn't even try.

That's not my quoted article, why are you asking me?

Originally posted by jsobecky
By that logic, do you think it would be wrong for the US to arrest bin Laden?

It depends what he's accused of I suppose. If they accuse him of carrying out terrorist attacks on the United States then I would first say, prove it. Secondly I would say that he hasn't personally committed a crime in the United States so he should be tried where he might of committed that crime. I assume that would be Afghanistan.

Originally posted by jsobecky
Or are you against extradition treaties between countries in general?

You better ask the United States as it has refused to even entertain Italian requests to try CIA officers for breaking their own laws. Where's the quid pro quo here? Extradition treaties are, yet again, another treaty that the United States only recognizes when its in its own interests. When its not in American interests to recognize extradition treaties it ignores them or states sovereignty.

makeitso I beg your pardon?

Does it occur to you that maybe there are two unrelated different headlining articles of controversy that happen within a week that just happen to contain a common word in them being "Heroin".

*shakes head...and wanders off mumbling about people who should grow a brain ........




[edit on 24-10-2005 by Mayet]

Originally posted by subz
How about stop it entering your country by arresting those in America who import it?

That sounds like the Canadian solution

The United States doesn't have jurisdiction over crimes committed outside United States territory. This Drug Lord has never set foot in the United States hence he has not broken any American law. That enough reasoning for you?

No it isn't enough. He could very well be charged with conspiracy charges, similar to how the RICO statutes were so successfully applied.

I don't agree that one has to physically be in the country to break our laws. And I don't know that this man has never set foot in the US, as you assert.

The Noriega case was very similar; he was tried for drug trafficking and now sits in a Florida prison.

Originally posted by jsobecky
I read the article Mayet supplied, and this is what I see:

I don't see anything wrong with this. The article doesn't state who arrested him; are you implying that the USA arrested him: The United States has no authority or mandate to solely police the World and they shouldn't even try.

That's not my quoted article, why are you asking me?

I was asking you about the text that I had bolded, which you had quoted. I thought that you were implying that it was US agents who arrested this man in Afghanistan. I wanted to see your source.

Originally posted by jsobecky
Or are you against extradition treaties between countries in general?

You better ask the United States as it has refused to even entertain Italian requests to try CIA officers for breaking their own laws. Where's the quid pro quo here? Extradition treaties are, yet again, another treaty that the United States only recognizes when its in its own interests. When its not in American interests to recognize extradition treaties it ignores them or states sovereignty.

We can't point to past deeds to deflect attention from this issue. It happens all the time on ATS, when a charge is levelled, someone invariably counters with the "Unclean Hands" defense. That is why issues never get resolved.

In other words, if you were in a court of law and said that, I would expect the other lawyer to shout "Objection. Irrelevant"., and for the judge to respond, "Sustained".

If the source of Heroin supply can be traced back to the guy he can be charged with a crime in America. He does not, as far as I know, have to physically have been here to be charged with committing the crime on American soil. The situation is somewhat analagous to a person sending a letter bomb or anthrax through the mail to someone in the U.S. That is an offense under American law and the person can be indicted for it, the extradition can be requested, and if granted the person can be brought to the U.S. for trial. Cross border crimes are fairly frequent between Canada and the U.S. and being on either side of the border is no defense from prosecution.

[edit on 25-10-2005 by Astronomer68]

Originally posted by Mayet
So now the USA is going into other countries and arresting citizens to extradite to the USA to face charges. Umm this is wrong.

I love how the author left out the most important fact here.

Mohammad, who was arrested in Afghanistan

(Same Source as base article)

Talk about distorting the news

C.I.A. got angry that they were the not the ones controlling this source of heroin?

Oh well, at least with him gone and the other drug lords shot, Afganistan can be used by the C.I.A, Northern Alliance and friends to produce enough opium for us all - and we got rid of those terrorists too.

:-)

Yay!

Originally posted by shots

Originally posted by Mayet
So now the USA is going into other countries and arresting citizens to extradite to the USA to face charges. Umm this is wrong.

I love how the author left out the most important fact here.

Mohammad, who was arrested in Afghanistan

(Same Source as base article)

Talk about distorting the news

Umm what is it you are implying there shots. The dude was arrested in Afghanistan. So far we don't know exactly who originally arrested him. All we know was that he was arrested in January this year. So what is your problem exactly with my reporting techniques? I don't quite comprehend your point from what you quoted and your comment. What was distorted exactly?

Originally posted by Mayet

Originally posted by Mayet
So now the USA is going into other countries and arresting citizens to extradite to the USA to face charges. Umm this is wrong.

Umm what is it you are implying there shots. The dude was arrested in Afghanistan. So far we don't know exactly who originally arrested him. All we know was that he was arrested in January this year. So what is your problem exactly with my reporting techniques? I don't quite comprehend your point from what you quoted and your comment. What was distorted exactly?

Read your own statement again Mayet you clearly implied the US arrested him in his own country and that was not the case as I see it.

but it is nice to see you now admit you were wrong or at least you are now implying you do not know who arrested him.

Umm Shots that was my opinion ..I stand by my original opinion.

You accused me of distorting news. and even reiterated and highlighted your comment by adding cutsey little thumbs down. you questioned my journalist abilities on an article, yet now I find all along it was my opinion comment that you took issues with? You questioned my journalistic integrity and put a thumbs down so publicly on a piece over a comment that was supposed to be exactly what it was ....a comment?

shame on you Shots, it is you that gets the thumbs down All three of them too.

You wish to question my opinion and comment go right ahead but don't bring my journalistic content into question over an opinion placed in the correct spot.

Next time you wish to remark about me leaving important facts out, how about I just cut and paste the whole source article for your satisfaction, then you cannot accuse me of leaving anything out....... sheesh shots.........

Originally posted by Mayet
Umm Shots that was my opinion ..I stand by my original opinion.


shame on you Shots, it is you that gets the thumbs down

All three of them too.

No I think it is the other way around, it was not me that left the most important part of the story out, that was you. You are entitled to your opinion and I am allowed to point out the flaws in those opinions am I not?

SOOOOOO many journalists commented during the afghan mission, that we were paying people to help us, that we should be destroying...

They commented (very prophetically) that we are giving money to warlords that have no loyalty, that would just as soon take our money, and buy guns to kill us with... this man doesn't even do that... it cuts into profits... so why not just sell the drugs we pay him to grow, right back to us, and double his profit. A despicable man true... but one that I am sure we shook hands with when we put him on the payroll...

Garcia said Mohammad was arrested in January in Kandahar by Afghan drug officials and ordered extradited by Afghan President Hamid Karzai on Oct. 13. He said it is the first time an Afghan has been sent to the United States for prosecution.
Source

Now unless you have lost your ability to read you can clearly see it was not the US that arrested him.

Originally posted by shots
No I think it is the other way around, it was not me that left the most important part of the story out, that was you. You are entitled to your opinion and I am allowed to point out the flaws in those opinions am I not?

Left the most important part of the story out? Distorted the News?....Shots.... the dude was extradited to the USA that would mean he was arrested elsewhere. In this case lets look at it... he wasn't arrested sunning himself in the Bahamas was he, of course he was arrested in Afghanistan.....

You didn't point out the flaws in my opinion. You insinuated and still are that my reporting in this matter was a failure. Left something out? Distorted news? you keeping jacking on about that.......What is this most important part of the story that I left out? Looking back on it I think I summed the source story up quite well in my intro if I say so myself.

You didnt point out flaws in opinion at all, you clearly pointed out that the author of the piece did not report on the item correctly, you clearly stated that the author of the news thread had distorted the news.... Which was a deliberate attempt to degrade the piece written. If you had just made a comment about my comment I would have no issue but when you cloak it in insinuation by calling out my reporting abilities then I have issue.

Now if you don't mind enough of the pettiness already...Im going back to hunting down some good stories...have a nice day


[edit on 25-10-2005 by Mayet]

Originally posted by shots

Garcia said Mohammad was arrested in January in Kandahar by Afghan drug officials and ordered extradited by Afghan President Hamid Karzai on Oct. 13. He said it is the first time an Afghan has been sent to the United States for prosecution.
Source

Now unless you have lost your ability to read you can clearly see it was not the US that arrested him.

Pfft...

The Afagan Army and Police Force, just like the Government, are owned by the U.S. if they didn't like how things were going there they have the ability to remove them.

It might as well be a colony for christs sake.

Mayet, its the modus operandi shots uses. He is that bereft of intelligent debating skills that he feels a compulsion to degrade your integrity before he attempts to put forth his disagreeance with your opinion. If he doesn't agree with you he will try to call into doubt either the relevance of the entire story, your ability to write a submission, your source or your own intelligence. In this case he tried to undermine your journalistic competency when in actual fact he objected to your opinion.

He is more than welcome, as you make out, to believe his own opinion. But what he fails to grasp is that he is not allowed to make statements like he did about you. You didn't leave anything out of your story, if shots wanted more he is more than able to follow the link posted by yourself and read the story in its entirety. The onus is also on himself to find out additional facts on the matter if he wants to read them, its not on you.