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NEWS: Motorists That Refuse To Give Their Thumbprint Will Go To Jail

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posted on Oct, 21 2005 @ 08:27 PM
Motorists in Arizona will now be required to give thumbprints to deputies if they are stopped for a traffic violation. In a pilot program motorists pulled over in routine traffic stops were asked to voluntarily provide their thumbprint. Around 67% of motorists stopped declined to give thumbprints but when the new policy comes in: "This will be mandatory. No exceptions. " If people don't want to give the print, "They're going directly to jail. Period."
Motorists cited for criminal traffic violations will have to give their thumbprint to Maricopa County Sheriff's deputies or go to jail.

"This will be mandatory. No exceptions," Sheriff Joe Arpaio said Wednesday. "If they don't want to give the print, they're going directly to jail. Period."

Arpaio launched the new policy Wednesday across the Valley, expanding and toughening a pilot program in which motorists pulled over for routine traffic stops were asked to voluntarily provide a thumbprint. The goal was to catch people who took the wheel with stolen or phony driver's licenses and ultimately to combat identity theft in Arizona, which ranks top in the nation for the crime.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.

I swear, Orwell was only off by 20 years. This country is quickly becoming a police state. Pretty soon they'll be taking our guns away.

What are they going to want next, DNA samples when they pull you over for speeding?

Personally, I think this police department has crossed the line, and I also believe this action is unconstitutional.

Related News Links:

[edit on 21-10-2005 by elderban]

posted on Oct, 21 2005 @ 08:37 PM
Using the nations highways to combat identity theft is pure and utter BS.

I vote yes for this ATSNN story and a big fat NO for this type of police behavior/policies.

The cop in a traffic stop should never be allowed to become the enforcer of some larger, ancillary goal. Power becomes abused. I think this sheriff's policy and attitude displays that. Hopefully his city will fire him quickly.

[edit on 21-10-2005 by smallpeeps]

posted on Oct, 21 2005 @ 08:47 PM
Actaully in most places the cop only asks to see your ID to speed up the identifying processes. if you know the law and can quote it correctly you do NOT need to show them your ID.

THe sheiff might think he is in his rights to do so, but I rather check with a Lawyer first

posted on Oct, 21 2005 @ 09:06 PM
I hope that this law will not be in all the states... so soon it will be a police state in Arizona not in the entire country... And when the National ID will be imposed?

posted on Oct, 21 2005 @ 09:30 PM
Anytime you cash a third party check in a bank, you are required to provide a fingerprint. You leave fingerprints everywhere you go. Mine are on file wth the FBI and with numerous employers. I don't think this is something to get worked up over.

You aren't supposed to quote the aritcle in your introduction.

[edit on 2005/10/21 by GradyPhilpott]

posted on Oct, 21 2005 @ 09:31 PM

Originally posted by Jehosephat
if you know the law and can quote it correctly you do NOT need to show them your ID.

See the key here is quote it correctly and hope you have a sympathetic judge. I know in MI, you give up your 4th ammendmant rights when driving, which is why they can give you a breathalyzer without a search warrant. Being stopped while not not operating a vehicle is another story. I have a feeling this might fall under this category.

Some info

I am very much a layman when it comes to the law though and perhaps I misread it. I know if I was stopped in AZ and asked for my thumbprint I might find myself in jail or if not filing a lawsuite for an illegal search. (EDIT: walking I meant not for driving).

[edit on 21-10-2005 by silentlonewolf]

posted on Oct, 21 2005 @ 09:34 PM
And what huh? None yall gonna do anything about it. I been saying it for awhile now, when they ask for your print, you will cry and argue and protest, but you will give it to them. When they ask for your DNA, you will cry and argue and protest, but you will give it to them. When they take your guns away you will cry and argue and protest, but you will hand them over. When someone fights against them and starts to murder the dictatorial goons to save their freedom, you will cry and plead for their deaths because they are so called "terrorists" and you will not dare, for fear of your "leaders", take any public action or remarks .
And when they finally lock you up for no reason at all just for the hell of it, you will only wish you would have done something a long long time ago to prevent this from happening.

If you live in Arizona, I strongly suggest you organize a public protest to at least let this become public knowledge because I am pretty sure most of those citizens don't even realize it is happening.

All I am saying is if they actually do get to the point of taking your guns (i seriously doubt it though) you have two choices to make and the choice you make will set the path for the rest of your life. You can hand in your gun, and your soul along with it because you will never fight again. Or you can take that gun and blow away whoever is at your door trying to steal it away from you. You may die in the process, depending on your skills and how many are at your residence, but at least you would have died fighting for your freedom.

posted on Oct, 21 2005 @ 09:49 PM
Life In The Fast Lane

The citations in question are issued in lieu of arrest, which is provided for by law and has been for years and years.

While details vary from place to place, you can normally be arrested and booked for traffic violations -- depending on the violation, and at the discretion of the officer writing the complaint.

From the source article:
Although Arpaio cannot require people to provide a fingerprint if they are cited for civil traffic violations, he said he can if the citation is criminal.

Criminal traffic violations include reckless driving, excessive speed (more than 20 mph above the posted speed limit) and driving under the influence, while civil violations include speeding, failure to yield or unsafe lane changes.

As the article points out, this only applies if you are being cited for a criminal offense.

It has already been the case for years that if you commit these offenses, you can be arrested, booked and fingerprinted.

Considering the stated fact that Arizona leads the nation in fraudulent IDs and identity theft, I fail to see how getting your fingerprint instead of arresting you and booking you into jail is unreasonable.

The only people being threatened with jail are people who could have already been taken to jail at the discretion of the arresting officer.

Got a problem with the law? Then by all means campaign to change it. The sheriff is acting within his authority in this case. Period.

Too much trouble? Then by all means type out impotent polemics on your computer and basically do nothing about it. Whoop-dee-freakin'-doo.

If you have a Social Security Number and you consider this to be Big Brother, you might want to take a closer look at how much "privacy" you have already had taken from you.

The "outrage" I'm seeing here doesn't seem very well-informed to me.

Yes, there are problems with "Big Brotherism" in this country.

No, this isn't the problem.

My $0.02, your mileage may vary.

posted on Oct, 21 2005 @ 10:23 PM
I totally concur Majic, somehow criminal violations got turned into violations period and that is not what the law says.

posted on Oct, 21 2005 @ 10:35 PM
Oh give it time. Before you know it all humans will be microchipped at birth much like dogs & cats are when you pick them up from the humane society. I know it sounds extreme but we are already tracked like animals with our social security numbers and finger prints. Why not a microchip? I'm sure it will be something that allows us to be tracked via satellite. They'll use an excuse like "It will help us track child predators better".

posted on Oct, 21 2005 @ 10:35 PM
I'm like Grady -- my fingerprints are all over the place already so it doesn't matter too much to me. I think there will be more problems with the system being down when they try to run the print because of too much traffic more than anything.

I remember a few months ago asking the bank teller what the little blue container was by the window and being surprised that it was for fingerprinting for third party checks. But it is a great idea -- it will make someone think twice if they are going to cash a forged or stolen check when they know their print will be on file with the check.

posted on Oct, 21 2005 @ 10:39 PM
Everyone allways talks about getting tough on illegals, well, this is one of the ways to do it.

It has already been the case for years that if you commit these offenses, you can be arrested, booked and fingerprinted.

Hey, thats a really good point. They're sorta doing you a favour by not taking you in to the jail, booking, and then arresting you then, which they'd be perfectly permited to do.

[edit on 21-10-2005 by Nygdan]

[edit on 21-10-2005 by Nygdan]

posted on Oct, 21 2005 @ 11:25 PM
BS, If he wants my print he can suck my honker!

posted on Oct, 21 2005 @ 11:59 PM
Next up motorists will be required to submit to body cqavity searches when stopped and will be filmed while being searched.

I hope they don't come up with mind-melding because that would be next.

Motorists stopped must submit to mind melding and then fill out a 40 page questionaire.

It's SICK! It's all sick. It's just authory's way of telling you, you don't matter. Just procedure matters. I say sue the government and government workers and politicians every chance you get.

posted on Oct, 22 2005 @ 01:34 AM
If there ever was an argument in favor of privatizing roads, this is it. Why do we put up with it? We are always 2 elections away from freedom, but we never choose it.

posted on Oct, 22 2005 @ 01:41 AM
I know they already have approx. 600 empty (but manned) new prison camps already in place in case of a riotous populace and Montana apparantly the worst because of the militia, but maybe the "supposed" Republicans and Democrats (they are one in the same really) should ask themselves the one question that Bush does when he acts like he represents America to the world....................Despite the military and the prison camps waiting on us.............DO "YOU" TRULY KNOW THE RESOLVE OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE?. The Dumbing down of America was a nice touch, but we are not as dumb as you would have us and the world believe. We see what's happening Bush's daddy.

posted on Oct, 22 2005 @ 01:45 AM
Ok, which one of you "skeptics" are going to tell me I'm paranoid, huh?

Oh, people will get bent out of shape, but they'll eventually get over it, will stop scrubbing themselves raw while huddled in a shower corner while sobbing, and they'll assume that such a scene is as natural as can be. Then, the screws will be tightened some more.

posted on Oct, 22 2005 @ 02:47 AM
Welcome to Orwellian Utopia, got Soma?

They already have my prints from FBI background checks for the DoD to cashing big checks at the bank, one more set doesn't mean squat to me. They have us marked already in dozens of ways, unless your a hermit.

AZ Criminal violations for which people will be fingerprinted include:

• Driving more than 20 mph over speed limit
• Reckless driving
• Hit and run
• Drag racing
• Driving with suspended/canceled/ revoked license or plates
• Failure to stop for school bus stop signal

The excuse/reasoning behind this is to crack down on illegal aliens with fake ID's.

Migrants may be arrested along with smugglers under new AZ state law

Pinal County revamping jail to hold illegal aliens

War Is Peace · Freedom Is Slavery · Ignorance Is Strength

Being cynical and sarcastic, cause I have yet to see the McCouch-Tater Army mobilizing to make anything right of the plethora of wrongs. I saw earlier that someone raised a great question. Is the internet just a vent that erodes a call to action? Meaning: as long as we can whine and cry, we won't do anything physical.

ASU campus: smoke'm if ya got'em. Cough, cough, dude, your freaking me out you lamer...go chill. It's all fake news, no fear man.

ASU Web Devil - Playboy ranks ASU No. 1 party school

Don't count on the future generation in Arizona changing anything.

[edit on 22-10-2005 by Regenmacher]

posted on Oct, 22 2005 @ 04:49 AM
This whole thing brings many other things into play.

First of all, I don't know about the rest of you, but I have never had my identity stolen, even though I have lost my wallet several times, I don't ever pay for any of that extra protection offered when I get a new credit card, I give all sorts of personal info over the Internet, call me stupid, maybe I am, but, I take my chances. Also, I don't know anyone, or know anyone who knows anyone, who knows anyone, etc... who has had their identity stolen. So, although I'm sure that the crime does occur, it is not of the magnitude that the government wants us to believe. I think that it is just one more way of trying to get the public to give up more civil liberties in exchange for a temporary, false sense of security. (This was just a couple of cents I had to put in.)

The rest, more factual, I think. First of all, the person who wrote that the local police have no business trying to enforce something that is above and beyond their call of duty is absolutely right. Also, the person (djohnston(?) I think who wrote that if you know the law, you don't have to show any ID as long as you know your rights under the law, I'm pretty sure is also correct. My boyfriend has worked many years in the legal field, and is very knowledgeable about the ins & outs of the law. (I don't know as much, myself), but I can tell you a couple of things I have learned for sure:

One is that if you get pulled over for something like a tail light out, minor speeding, "driving in a manner not reasonable and proper" (I wonder who thought that one up?), etc... and it is a regular traffic stop where you would just be issued a ticket and be on your way, the cop DOES NOT have the automatic right to search your car. He/she must first gain consent from the driver. If a cop asks if you will consent to a search, most people are intimidated, and say, "yes". But, if you say no, you don't consent, and you're not drunk or anything like that, all the cop can do is let you go. They get all indignent, and try to persuade you that if you have nothing to hide, why not, etc..... but just insist that you do not consent and they can't do it legally.

But the other thing that this terrible new Arizona law (if it's really legal) means, is that whenever a driver is taken to jail, their car automatically is impounded. When that happens, the cop "must" do an automatic "inventory search" to make sure that nothing is missing when the car in taken to the impound. Well, that is a nice way for the cop to either plant something in your car if he suspects drugs or something and finds none, or to go ahead and search to his hearts content without your consent.

This is all very bad. The cops must be stopped. This must be taken, and taken soon to a higher court. Otherwise, there aren't many more, if any stops on the way to a real Police State.

posted on Oct, 22 2005 @ 04:52 AM
(accidental double-post - forgive me?)

[edit on 10/22/2005 by CyberKat]

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