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…Reports are in that the Iraqi Islamic Party, a Sunni group, and the Sunni Endowment, an Iraqi government related Sunni group, have publicly endorsed the new Iraqi constitution and urged their followers to vote "Yes" on the upcoming constitutional referendum. In the catalog of big facts that will certainly go in almanacs all round with bold type and a list of important players, but it is not the reason the Iraq war ended Thursday. The reason the Iraq war ended Thursday is the motivations that moved these groups to decide that
It is a constant bafflement to some in the West why the insurgent nations, full of former fascists and religious fanatics, often refuse democratic principles. After all, we think, why not just vote in the crazies you love so much? Why be against majority rule if you can just legitimize your madness with votes?
The answer is, of course, that the people who love to machine-gun other people for reasons regarding only the afterlife are, on the whole, a substantial minority. They are the people who would rather rave and fire machine guns than get jobs. Hence they are always opposed to democracy because they know they are not in the majority; they know that they do not speak for the heart of the common man. Average Joe, Average Abdul is not filled with bloodlust all day long…
And now here is a new oddity. This week, a group of Sunnis became democrats. By accepting the constitution, you ask? No. Not quite. That's not what I mean. A group of Sunnis became democrats because they believed they would gain influence, numbers and real representation by going to the polls and being voted into office by their people!
Notice the dramatic turn of events: the Sunni block has, for the first time, equated democratic participation with real political power. Remember how furiously they denounced democracy as a farce, as unreal, as something that did not transmit real authority? But today they have decided that it does, and they want in on it. Democracy has gained the mantle, ahead of the barrel of a gun, of transmitting real political power to all factions. The most major faction in the insurgency now thinks that it's in their best interest to participate – this is shocking.
US ready to stay 10 years in Iraq: Rice
Washington, Oct. 20. (AP): Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice on Wednesday refused to rule out U.S. troops still being in Iraq in 10 years or the possibility that the United States could use military force against neighboring Syria and Iran.
Rice deferred to the decisions of President George W. Bush and military commanders as Republicans and Democrats on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee pressed her for more specifics on the U.S. strategy in Iraq.
Asked specifically whether the United States would have troops in Iraq in five or 10 years, Rice said: "I think that even to try and speculate on how many years from now there will be a certain number of American forces is not appropriate.''
Lawmakers also pressed her on strategy for dealing with Iran and Syria. U.S. officials have accused Syria of allowing foreign fighters to flow across its borders into Iraq and Iran of supporting the insurgency.
www.hindu.com...
The US Air Force’s senior officer, Gen. John Jumper, stated US warplanes would remain in Iraq to fight resistance forces and protect the American-installed regime "more or less indefinitely."
Gen. Jumper let the cat out of the bag. While President George Bush hints at eventual troop withdrawals, the Pentagon is busy building four major, permanent air bases in Iraq that will require heavy infantry protection.
www.ericmargolis.com...
Administration's Tone Signals a Longer, Broader Iraq Conflict
Over time, President Bush told troops at Fort Bragg, N.C., this spring, "the terrorists will lose their sponsors, lose their recruits, and lose their hopes for turning that region into a base for attacks on America and our allies around the world."
But inside the administration, that belief provides less solace than it once did. Senior officials say the intelligence reports flowing over their desks in recent months argue that even if democratic institutions take hold, the insurgency may strengthen. And that possibility has created a quandary for an administration that desperately wants to equate democracy-building with winning the war, but so far has not been able to match the two.
That internal struggle was evident this weekend, as Mr. Bush returned to Washington sounding less celebratory about Iraq's constitutional referendum - whose outcome is suspected but still unknown - than he did after Iraq's elections last January. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, speaking from London on "Fox News Sunday," was somewhat more definitive: "The Sunnis are joining the base of this broad political process," she said. "That will ultimately undo this insurgency. But of course, they can still pull off violent and spectacular attacks."
Mr. Bush's own way of talking about the future, in Iraq and beyond, has undergone a subtle but significant change in recent weeks. In several speeches, he has begun warning that the insurgency is already metastasizing into a far broader struggle to "establish a radical Islamic empire that spans from Spain to Indonesia." While he still predicts victory, he appears to be preparing the country for a struggle of cold war proportions.
It is a very different tone than administration officials sounded in the heady days after Saddam Hussein's fall, and then his capture.
www.nytimes.com...
Originally posted by Souljah
More or Less Indefinitely!
Washington, Oct. 20. (AP): Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice on Wednesday refused to rule out U.S. troops still being in Iraq in 10 years or the possibility that the United States could use military force against neighboring Syria and Iran.
Rice deferred to the decisions of President George W. Bush and military commanders as Republicans and Democrats on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee pressed her for more specifics on the U.S. strategy in Iraq.
WASHINGTON (AP) -- Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice declined on Wednesday to rule out American forces still being needed in Iraq a decade from now. Senators warned that the Bush administration must play it straight with the public or risk losing public support for the war.
Pushed by senators from both parties to define the limits of U.S. involvement in Iraq and the Middle East, Rice also declined to rule out the use of military force in Iran or Syria, although she said the administration prefers diplomacy.
"I don't think the president ever takes any of his options off the table concerning anything to do with military force," Rice said.
(Link via AP site)
Originally posted by Souljah
...sometime in the early 2050...
Originally posted by Manincloak
"The war is won" ?
Are you familiar with the concept of a quagmire?
The US is going no better in Iraq than it did in Vietnam (a war they lost, just to remind everyone).
The only way US troops are to come back from Iraq, is in boxes.
Either that or a "tactical withdrawl" of all US forces from the entire country.
[edit on 21-10-2005 by Manincloak]
Originally posted by ManincloakAre you familiar with the concept of a quagmire?
Originally posted by Souljah
Yep - I am sure that US Troops will leave "Soon".
Yes I am sure that US Forces will pull out from the Middle East...
...sometime in the early 2050...
Originally posted by Army
It is hardly a "quagmire", what with all the new infrastructure being built and improved. More electricity, more clean water, more medical facilities and medical personnel, and personal freedoms never before known in Iraq.
Originally posted by Army
But let you compare it to Vietnam, and all is lost....of course, if you would bother researching the global impact of our efforts in Vietnam, you would see that we set back, stalled, and eventually defeated Soviet style Communism from expanding at a near unstoppable rate.
By April, the weakened South Vietnamese Army had collapsed on all fronts. The powerful PAVN offensive forced South Vietnamese troops on a bloody retreat that ended up as a hopeless siege at Xuan-loc, a city 40 miles from Saigon, and the last South Vietnamese defense line before Saigon. On April 21, the defense of Xuan-loc collapsed and PAVN troops and tanks rapidly advanced to Saigon. On April 27, 100,000 PAVN troops encircled Saigon, which was to be defended by 30,000 ARVN troops. On April 29, the U.S. launched Option IV, the largest helicopter evacuation in history. Chaos, unrest, and panic ensued as hectic Vietnamese scrambled to leave Saigon before it was too late. Helicopters began evacuating from the U.S. embassy and the airport. Evacuations were held to the last minute because U.S. Ambassador Martin thought Saigon could be held and defended. The operation began in an atmosphere of desperation as hysterical mobs of South Vietnamese raced to takeoff spots designated to evacuate, many yelling to be saved. Martin had pleaded to the U.S. government to send $700 million in emergency aid to South Vietnam in order to bolster the Saigon regime's ability to fight and to mobilize fresh South Vietnamese units. But the plea was rejected. Many Americans felt the Saigon government would meet certain collapse. President Ford gave a speech on April 23, declaring the end of the Vietnam War and the end of all American aid to the Saigon regime. The helicopter evacuation continued all day and night while PAVN tanks reached the outskirts of Saigon. In the early hours of April 30, the last U.S. Marines left the embassy as hectic Vietnamese breached the embassy perimeter and raided the place. PAVN T-54 tanks moved into Saigon. The South Vietnamese resistance was light. Tank skirmishes began as ARVN M-41 tanks attacked the heavily armored Soviet T-34 tanks. PAVN troops soon dashed to capture the U.S. embassy, the government army garrison, the police headquarters, radio station, presidential palace, and other vital targets. The PAVN encountered greater than expected resistance as small pockets of ARVN resistance continued. By now, the helicopter evacuations that had evacuated 7,000 American and Vietnamese had ended. The presidential palace was captured and the Vietcong flag waved victoriously over it. President Duong Van Minh surrendered Saigon to PAVN colonel Bui Tin. The surrender came over the radio as Minh ordered South Vietnamese forces to lay down their weapons. Columns of South Vietnamese troops came out of defensive positions and surrendered. Saigon fell on April 30, 1975. As for the Americans, many stayed in South Vietnam but by May 1, 1975 most Americans had fled, leaving the city of Saigon forever. Finally, despite the fact that the United States military had decisively won most major engagements, and had withdrawn troops from the country two years earlier following a peace accord, the Vietnam War is popularly considered America's most humiliating defeat, with over 58,000 dead and many left severely injured. As for the people of South Vietnam, over a million ARVN soldiers died in the 30-year conflict.