Why sinners hate God.

Originally posted by LoneGunMan
First mistake of christianity is the fact that it is based on something so negative as a crusifiction. It has had negative vibes from the start. Everytime I tried to understand it it made me feel terrible inside. Like I was doing something unatural. It has been a horrible exprience for mankind this negative religion. Millions upon millions have been killed tortured and burned for it. Alas though it is finally showing signs of dying.

The story of the crucifixion, has within it the deepest truth. When one does not resist, but accepts deep suffering, one is free.

The story is the archetypal resistance of the moment, followed by such deep suffering that this resistance collapses. Extreme suffering reaches a point when a human can no longer resist it, and must accept it. It is at this point, when a person accepts the moment, what is, that he is free.

We can see Jesus resisting what is when he says, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?". This resistance then collapses when he says, "Not my will, but Thine, be done".

We are never truly in this moment. We are usually in a false mind-made created future, or lingering in the past. The ego has a deep sense of insufficiency, and it desperately needs the future in order to have an identity. Accept this moment, the ego dies, and you are free.

Why oh why do you guys keep saying I am going to hell? Was it not you that took about nine million women and burned them at the stake for being witches? How could your religion do such a horrible thing and state I whom has a rede that states: Harm none, do what thou wilt? I am the one going to go to hell for not repenting?

You people are still waging wars in the name of god. My people never started a war, yet you state we are evil, and yet you do not even understand who and what we are.

I believe if there was such a thing as hell, it would mostly be filled with Christians! Love is the law, love is the bond. The Lord and Lady always forgives.



[edit on 21-10-2005 by LoneGunMan]

LoneGunMan,
Why oh why do you guys keep saying I am going to hell? Was it not you that took about nine million women and burned them at the stake for being witches? How could your religion do such a horrible thing and state I whom has a rede that states: Harm none, do what thou wilt? I am the one going to go to hell for not repenting? You people are still waging wars in the name of god. My people never started a war, yet you state we are evil, and yet you do not even understand who and what we are. I believe if there was such a thing as hell, it would mostly be filled with Christians! Love is the law, love is the bond. The Lord and Lady always forgives.

No sir, I did not murder millions of people that was done by the wicked Catholic Church. You also have your numbers mixed up. The millions who were tortured and burned by the Catholic Church were Bible believing Christians! Witches, pagans and others were also murdered but in far fewer numbers. The Catholic Church is not Christian it is a church built on power and control. The Bible says that the Church of Rome will hold the seat of power for the Great Whore who rides the Beast. This whore will build a universal world religion that will absorb all the religions of the world into one vile abomination. My spiritual heritage does not run through the Church of Rome. I defy and hate the Roman Catholic Church (not to be confused with hate towards many of its followers) for all the evil it has committed and the false teachings it proposes.

My Christian forefathers spilled their blood so that I could have God’s Word in front of me now in the form of the King James Bible a Bible that the Church of Rome tried desperately to destroy. The true church of Jesus Christ is built on the martyrdom of millions of Christians whose only crime was to love God above all else and proclaim salvation by faith in Jesus Christ alone.

You are right to assume that many professing Christians will indeed burn in Hell forever:

Matthew 7:21-23
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

If you want the truth concerning the Church of Rome go to this link and read about, “Foxe’s Book of Martyrs”.

www.chick.com...


A True Christian
In These Last Days,

James

Originally posted by Machine
The millions who were tortured and burned by the Catholic Church were Bible believing Christians!

I must expose my ignorance at this point. Which millions of tortured and burned Christians are you referring to?

Originally posted by Machine
The Catholic Church is not Christian it is a church built on power and control.

...sounds Christian to me.

Originally posted by Machine
The Bible says that the Church of Rome will hold the seat of power for the Great Whore who rides the Beast.

No it doesn't. You are interpolating what it says, and taking it out of the proper historical context at the same time. It refers to mystery Babylon (the pagan mystery faiths) and the city on seven hills, which very well could be a reference to Rome, but anti-christian late 1st century pagan Rome, not the Catholic church.

It might also be a reference to Seven Hills Ohio.

Originally posted by Machine
This whore will build a universal world religion that will absorb all the religions of the world into one vile abomination.

The mistake you are making is interpreting Revelation as something yet to be fulfilled. It was written in the late first century about events that were happening at the time, with an expectation of an eminent apocalypse that never materialized.

Originally posted by Machine
Jesus told people they were in danger of going to Hell far more often than anything else He did while on Earth.

No he didn't.. he preached love, compassion and tolerence more than anything else.. you must have skimmed over all the parts where he doesn't sound like a judgemental lunatic.

I have had the opportunity to donate clothing, food and other items as part of my Christian works but this is not my primary calling at the moment.

So.. that'd be a resounding 'NO'. Seems you are not as moral as you claim to be.. it is suppose to be deeds that count not hateful rhetoric.

Each member in the body of Christ has special gifts, talents and callings. I have been blessed with good communication skills and a bold spirit.

No you haven't.. you have talent of persecuting others which you seem to get off on. Good comunication skills? Show me all the converts you've created here.

Less than 1% of all Christians do the type of work that I and many other Christians do so it is definitely an area that is understaffed.

No it's not.. there are people called priests, ministers, missionaries, monks, nuns, evangalists and televangalists etc. With all the sick, starving and homesless people in the world it should be obvious that these are the areas that are understaffed. 'Let them eat Jesus.'?

People need to hear the truth and I’m thankful to God that I have the chance to be one of many who tell them. It’s impossible to preach the gospel and not offend some people but all Christians are required to do just that.

There are many others here who 'spread the word' without managing to offend anyone.. but then again they've been 'blessed' with good communication skills and are not filled with hate.

I have also found that those who are most offended seem to have a high rate of eventually turning from their sinful lives and accepting Jesus Christ as their LORD and saviour.

Pretending I believe you for a sec.. it's probably a matter of converting to your kind of sinning instead. Pride is claiming over all other believers that you speak for their god.. G.W.Bush did the same thing.. people have been slaughtered in honour of his delusions.

I believe, and the Bible asserts, that this is because deep down the Word of God convicts their soul and conscience. When an unrepentant sinner is forced to acknowledge his or her sin it cuts them deeply and they often respond in anger.

Don't kid yourself.. people get 'angry' because you are frequently judgemental, patronising and insulting. Even now, without even knowing me, you are inferring that I am a sinful person. That in itself is offensive because I find the way you condemn and persecute others repugnent and immoral.

[edit on 22-10-2005 by riley]

Originally posted by riley
'Let them eat Jesus.'?

ROTFLOL! Thanks a lot. Now I have to clean merlot off my keyboard.

Spamandham,
I must expose my ignorance at this point. Which millions of tortured and burned Christians are you referring to?

Most people are very ignorant of this historical fact. They try to tie Christians in with the murderous Roman Catholics and the dark period of the inquisitions. There’s far too much to explain to you on this important subject so I’ll leave some links and a quick summarization of what happened.

The short answer is this; Catholic Rome was built on pagan philosophies with Christianity mixed in. This religious system became all powerful and had a hand in everything from politics to control of the common man. Catholic Rome guarded that power with extreme brutality as the historical record proves. Anyone who got in the way or attempted to subvert that power was quickly labeled a heretic and treated accordingly.

The vast majority of these, “heretics” were Bible believing Christians. Great men of faith like, “William Tyndale” who was captured under the authority of Catholic Rome and held for 500 days in a damp and dark dungeon tower without proper food or clothing. He was then strangled and burned at the stake in 1536 his last words were, “Lord, open the eyes of the King of England”. His crime, he was making Bibles in English so the common man could read God's Word!

Entire sects of Christians were wiped out by Catholic Rome in its vain attempt to destroy God’s people and any opposition to its authority. The last great gasp of breath from Catholic Rome came when she tried to destroy every English Bible that was printed. Catholic Rome wanted to keep the common people under her, “care” and declared that anyone who printed a Bible that was not in Latin (a language very few but the highly educated knew) was to be considered a heretic of the worst order.

True Christians continued to fight Rome and defied the evil Popes spreading their simple and right Christian message of faith through belief in Jesus Christ alone. You see spamandham Catholic Rome wanted to keep its charge under firm control and the best way to control a people is to keep them ignorant of God’s truth. The only thing these poor people knew was what Rome told them. If Rome said, “You can rape a women and have your sin cleared for $1.50 given to the Pope” then that’s what many believed. Rome became filthy rich off of the invented concept of paid indulgences.

If you commit a sin you simply paid Rome money and your sin was forgiven! This was only the tip of the perverted Roman Catholic iceberg. I could tell you of many other great perversions of the Roman Catholic Church but time and nausea prevent me at the moment.



Start your inquiry here at the very famous, “Fox’s Book of Martyrs”.

www.ccel.org...

Then read this:

www.williamtyndale.com...



A True Christian
In These Last Days,

James

Riley,
(concerning Jesus preaching about Hell) No he didn't.. he preached love, compassion and tolerence more than anything else.. you must have skimmed over all the parts where he doesn't sound like a judgemental lunatic.

Riley you haven’t read the Bible if you had you would have seen some of this:

www.myfortress.org...

If you don't want to accept the truth of Hell there's nothing I can do for you. However, don't kid yourself, Hell is real and Jesus warned about it many times in the New Testement. Jesus Christ doesn't want you or anyone else to be placed into Hell and eventually the Lake of Fire but the choice is yours alone.

As much hatred as you have shown me on these forums I also pray that you will not fall into Hell. It pains me to think of you in that terrible place of eternal punishment.


A True Christian
In These Last Days,

James

Originally posted by Machine
Riley you haven’t read the Bible if you had you would have seen some of this:

www.myfortress.org...

Yes I have. I was raised on it.. I went to christian schools where we had to familiarise ourselves with his teachings. Yes the old testimant is very violent and promotes genocide and mass rape.. but, going by the NT; Jesus was basically a peaceful man in contrast and I'm sure many christians would agree that his message was love NOT hate. Of course you completely ignore all of his peaceful treachings because your self esteem probably hinges on telling others they are going to hell and that you know better. In a nutshell.. you get off on abusing people without provocation and hide behind a mask of self rightousness to justify it.. how do justify all the stones you are willing to throw at people? If you want to call yourself a christian.. you can't just pick and choose which rules you follow.

As much hatred as you have shown me on these forums I also pray that you will not fall into Hell. It pains me to think of you in that terrible place of eternal punishment.

I've reacted to your continued biggoted assaults on non christians and christians who do not share your idea of god. You have put me and others down, questioned our integrity [based on our creed] and told us we are sinful without having the slightest clue who we are personally.. yet now you are claiming victim? It's call claiming false witness. I think you owe us all public apologies and should repent ASAP.. otherwise



You know God wants you to..

[edit on 22-10-2005 by riley]

I'm a sinner, but i dont hate god

God's my biggest fan, God knows that i can do better, and he knows i want to as much as he wants me to.

God knows that i strive for calm, peace, and to love for those around me.

God knows that as i grow in spirit and remove myself from sin that i try to help others so the same (By example, not by forcing a bible into their hands)

And most importantly.. God is patient with me. God knows i am not perfect, but he likes me just the same, and so he waits quietly for me to arrive in his kingdom, where he knows i will work to help those around me.

i AM a sinner, i sinned today, i sinned yesterday, and i will likely sin tommorow. But i do not hate god for my sins, they are my own, and He is not to blame for them

A quote from an old fransican monk "I do not always know what pleases you my Lord, but i belive the fact that i want to please you, pleases you"

Originally posted by spamandham

Originally posted by Machine
The millions who were tortured and burned by the Catholic Church were Bible believing Christians!

I must expose my ignorance at this point. Which millions of tortured and burned Christians are you referring to?

Originally posted by Machine
The Catholic Church is not Christian it is a church built on power and control.

...sounds Christian to me.

Originally posted by Machine
The Bible says that the Church of Rome will hold the seat of power for the Great Whore who rides the Beast.

No it doesn't. You are interpolating what it says, and taking it out of the proper historical context at the same time. It refers to mystery Babylon (the pagan mystery faiths) and the city on seven hills, which very well could be a reference to Rome, but anti-christian late 1st century pagan Rome, not the Catholic church.

It might also be a reference to Seven Hills Ohio.

Originally posted by Machine
This whore will build a universal world religion that will absorb all the religions of the world into one vile abomination.

The mistake you are making is interpreting Revelation as something yet to be fulfilled. It was written in the late first century about events that were happening at the time, with an expectation of an eminent apocalypse that never materialized.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that simply YOUR interpretation?

Originally posted by Simon_the_byron
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that simply YOUR interpretation?

The references to mystery babylon and the city on seven hills are in the text - no interpretation there. The interpretation is what these things mean.

How would you suggest determining the meaning of an ancient work?

When one believes that they have found the truth, they must know that they believe and not believe that they know.

Both you and Machine assert more than you can possibly know.

Atheists and believers are separated only by a shared ignorance.

Let's not confuse faith with knowledge, whether that be faith in God or faith in the absence of God.

Riley,
Yes I have. I was raised on it.. I went to christian schools where we had to familiarise ourselves with his teachings. Yes the old testimant is very violent and promotes genocide and mass rape..

You only see the Old Testament as a text filed with violence, genocide and mass rape? The Old Testament has five books covering the creation and foundation of the Jewish people, another twelve books about Jewish history, five more on wisdom and beauty, five covering the Major Prophets and twelve covering the Minor Prophets but you only see evil in it?

Some of the most beautiful accounts of sin and repentance can be found in the Old Testament. Great men of God withstood incredible suffering and kept faith in God. The Jewish people struggled with all forms of sin; sometimes they fell sometimes they overcame. The foundation for the coming messiah was laid down in the Old Testament as well. The law was given which gives each of us a measuring stick to know right from wrong. You say you were taught the Bible in Christian schools but I say you were not well instructed.

Riley,
but, going by the NT; Jesus was basically a peaceful man in contrast and I'm sure many christians would agree that his message was love NOT hate.

Jesus Christ had several messages to give His creation when he came down as God manifest in the flesh. I also agree that for the most part He gave His truth in love and compassion. Is it not an act of love and compassion to tell someone who is in danger of Hell that he is in danger? Jesus did this many times because He loved the people and didn't want to see any of them die in their sins. I have never represented Jesus Christ as hateful that is only your gross interpretation of what I’ve said. I told you and the others on this board the truth and for this you hate me. It saddens me that this is your reaction but I have been forewarned by Jesus Himself that this would happen.

John 7:7 (The words of Jesus)
The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil.

John 15:18-20 (The words of Jesus)
If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before [it hated] you. If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you. Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.

In all my work on this forum I’ve only tried to warn you of the damnation to come if you do not repent and follow Jesus Christ alone. For this you hate me?

Riley,
Of course you completely ignore all of his peaceful treachings because your self esteem probably hinges on telling others they are going to hell and that you know better.

I tell you the truth about Hell because I don’t want you to go there. What makes you think that my intentions for warning you about Hell are based on my need for self esteem? As far as the peaceful teachings of Jesus Christ go those teachings are for saved Christians. There’s nothing peaceful about burning in Hell for all eternity! No man has peace with God who is in rebellion against Him and refuses to accept His only begotten Son and God Jesus Christ.

Riley,
In a nutshell.. you get off on abusing people without provocation and hide behind a mask of self rightousness to justify it.. how do justify all the stones you are willing to throw at people?

God alone will make the final judgment on each man and woman I simply relay the message that this judgment will be Hellfire if you do not repent and turn to Jesus Christ alone for salvation. I take no pleasure in the potential suffering of others in Hell. If I did I would simply stop warning everyone about it and quietly giggle to myself knowing that they were doomed. If my desire for you was evil I could carry it out by telling you that you were fine as is and in no need of Jesus Christ. I would say exactly what you wanted to hear and you would be happy. Is that what you want from me Riley? Do you want me to lie to you and tell you that Hell doesn’t exist and you are going to Heaven regardless of what you believe or accept as true?

I do not throw stones at anyone I only obey the commands of my God and warn others that God Himself will throw those stones some day if they refuse His Son Jesus Christ. I do this because I love you and for no other reason, why is this so hard for you to understand? Even the Atheists I associate with understand this. They know that I love them and they know that I believe they are going to Hell if they do not repent and turn to Jesus Christ. They have never accused me of hatred or ill will they simply think I’m wrong however well intentioned I may be. Why do you not think the same about me? Why must you assume the worst of me and take the true sayings of Jesus Christ and turn them into hatred?

Riley,
If you want to call yourself a christian.. you can't just pick and choose which rules you follow.

When have I done this? When have I ever said that some of the Bible is to be followed but some of it is not to be followed? I strive to follow God’s will in my life but I know that I fall short. I also know and have acknowledged on these forums that I’m still a sinner.

Riley,
I've reacted to your continued biggoted assaults on non christians and christians who do not share your idea of god.

Again, where is this coming from? How am I bigoted for telling you the Word of God? As for the non-Christians I‘m only doing what my God has commanded me to do and that’s to warn them. The professing Christians fall under another category. If someone says he or she is a Christian but doesn’t believe the basic core doctrines of the faith then he or she is not a Christian. I can say that I’m a lawyer even though I’m not licensed to practice law or have any training in legal proceedings. Are you telling me that it is wrong to test a person’s beliefs to make determinations as to whether or not they are who they say they are?

Riley,
You have put me and others down, questioned our integrity [based on our creed] and told us we are sinful without having the slightest clue who we are personally..

When have I put you down Riley? If I have put you down I ask your forgiveness, sometimes I type and say things I should not. If you’re upset about the truth of God’s Word would you rather I no longer speak to you about it? I will stop replying to you directly if you would like me to stop.

When I say that you are sinful I don’t need to know who you are to know this is true. God’s Word says that every man is a sinner and His Word is true. So what you hate is not me but God’s Word if you hate hearing this truth.

Romans 3:23
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Riley,
yet now you are claiming victim? It's call claiming false witness. I think you owe us all public apologies and should repent ASAP.. otherwise

I have been accused of having evil intentions on this forum so in that sense I am a victim. This is not an uncommon experience for Christians who are trying to reach the lost and warn them to turn away from their sin and turn to Jesus Christ.

You say that I’m a false witness for claiming to have been mistreated on these forums? Do you understand what the sin of bearing false witness is? If I was to say something that wasn’t factually true about myself or another person then that would fall under the category of bearing false witness. When have I committed this sin on these forums? Please cut and paste that portion of anything I’ve typed on these forums to prove your point that I have committed the sin of bearing false witness.

Why do I owe you and everyone else on these forums an apology? What have I done to everyone on these forums that they deserve an apology from me? Is it because I tell you the truth? Should I apologize for trying to warn you and others about Hell? If your house was on fire and I warned you to get out would you want me to apologize to you for warning you to get out of a burning building? Should I repent for warning you that you were about to burn up in the fire?

I don’t understand your logic here Riley. I can only speculate that you are angry with me without any real merit but only for the fact that I have warned you about Hell. As I said before in this reply, if you no longer wish me to respond to you directly just say the word and I’ll never quote you or respond to your words again.


A True Christian
In These Last Days,

James

To all of those that believe anyone that does not believe in a certain mesiah. Why would you think a God that is everything, that understands everything, that made us the way we are, a forgiving non-egotistical God, make its children go to hell forever, not getting out on good behavior, no way to learn the mistake they made. Eternal hell for not beliving in Jesus Christ? First how could a sane person follow an ago maniac that would do that to humans? Second where do you think this idea of a God that would punish you forever not for your deeds but the fact that you do not believe in Jesus?

:bnghd:

Originally posted by Simon_the_byron
Both you and Machine assert more than you can possibly know.

With this statement, you've joined the ring of those who assert what they can't possibly know. How do you know that neither machine nor I can know what we assert?

Originally posted by Simon_the_byron
Let's not confuse faith with knowledge, whether that be faith in God or faith in the absence of God.

Personally I do not need faith. I have knowledge, of the Devine if you opened the spitual side of yourself through meditation you could know the same. An athiest just has not ever plugged themselves in spiritually.

I have faith.. faith in the knowlege that i have cultivated. faith in what i feel when i am calm and quiet enough to hear and feel the rythmes of the cosmic forced, faith that i have given honest thought and consideration to that which i can not say that i know as fact.


the problem isnt one of faith, but of blind faith... faith is good.. but faith should be backed by research, study, and an honest relationship with the divine, and if you havent done these things.. then your faith is blind, and your blindness will lead you further into the darkness of ignorance.

Originally posted by BobDylan
This really has to be said again because it's making a fool of everyone who posts on this site.

I'll repeat for the 10000 time

STOP USING BIBLE QUOTATIONS TO BACK UP CHRISTIANITY

Have you any idea how ridiculous it is using a CHRISTIAN TEXT , written by CHRISTIANS to promote and glorify CHRISTIANITY to back up arguments about the orgin of Christianity and the existence of Jesus.

It's idiocy on a massive scale and it scares me to bloody death that some people cannot see that....USE A BIT OF COMMON SENSE FOR F***S SAKE.

Do you not appreciate how scary it is for people who don't beleive in Christianity?

It's damn terrifying because we are living with around 2.1 billion people on the planet who have faith and belief that a book written by MEN...a couple of thousand years ago is 100% fact and not open to question.

I've had enough of politeness and from now on I'm just going to say it as it is. Skipping around and being polite has gotten us nowhere because they just throw back the same old Dogma....again and again and again.

CHRISTIANITY IS BASED ON LIES, PROPAGANDA, POWER,CONTROL AND WEALTH AND IF YOU CAN'T SEE THAT THEN YOU ARE A SERIOUSLY DELLUDED INDIVIDUAL WHO NEEDS TO SORT THEIR S**T OUT SHARPISH

There you go, no quotations to back it up and no links to badly designed websites just a plain and simple statement based on good old fashioned COMMON SENSE.

From now on if ANY Christian uses the Bible to back up their argument then this will be reposted.

"One book to fool them all".......Tolkien knew the score methinks

this is true. the curch excluded alot of books when they were considering what books to put into the bible. sever other gosples of the other deciples and the gosple of mary .(jesus' wife...yeah i said it. you gonna start a crusade on me?) the thing is while the bible is a great historical book, theres so much that has been left out deliberatly to control the masses.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Your audience? What is this, another performance? A contest? A battle? A war? Your audience? Oh, brother!

You know 'God's truth', do you?

It's actually a war with many battles. Each has to make a choice. Which side are you on , God's or satan's