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the passages cut into solid bedrock are a colossal and enormous hydraulic ram pump! This hydraulic ram pump is built on a gigantic scale never duplicated in the ancient or modern world. Massive amounts of pumped water was used to supply a series of water locks, up to the Great Pyramid, transporting barges with stones to the building site. With its own pumped water and a series of water locks as a lifting medium, the Great Pyramid supplied its own waterpower to build itself!
Originally posted by Loungerist
The thing is none of the notable problems that stymied modern attempts had anything to do with manpower or zoning. Whether you have 20,000 men,200,000 men,or 2,000,000 men the finite surface area of the stone will only allow a certain amount of men to assist with a block at once. And with some of these blocks weighing upwards of 65 tons all more men would do is create a larger audience to watch these men fail to move the block as we've done in every modern attempt. But even assuming these men were hearty enough to heft weights you'd need a crane for,the number of men is irrelevant to the matter of cutting and setting these stones to such precision that a piece of paper couldn't fit in-between them when placed side by side. Nor does the number of men solve the burrowed tunnels under the pyramid of perfect uniform dimension through solid bedrock at an exact angle. The tunnel is only about 4ft. by 4 ft. if memory serves so there couldn't have been some large number of people making it.
Originally posted by Loungerist
The thing is none of the notable problems that stymied modern attempts had anything to do with manpower or zoning. Whether you have 20,000 men,200,000 men,or 2,000,000 men the finite surface area of the stone will only allow a certain amount of men to assist with a block at once.
Originally posted by Byrd
You might be interested, then, in reading more about the engineering techniques of the ancients (oh... and the stones aren't so perfect that "a piece of paper wouldn't fit between them. Examine them closely sometime.)
For instance, the pyramid was built from the ground up and they left the spaces for the chambers and ramps as they built it from the ground up. Stones were slid along ramps; they weren't hoisted.
Nor are thousands of men needed for moving stones. They had animals, but they also had wheels and pulleys and ramps and carts and sleds and there are paintings showing these in use. And using primitive cranes was quite common as well.
They had a good knowledge of basic math and could do basic engineering calculations (like how much grain in a basket). And they leveled stones and so forth using water technology.
Originally posted by Loungerist
The glaring discrepancy I see with this theory is that we've tried to replicate the building of the Giza Pyramid and failed woefully. Not only did the suggestion that it could be performed with the simple tools proposed fall apart immediately,but even resorting to our tools thousands of years more advanced still couldn't cut it. So the idea would not appear to be an underestimation so much as an acknowledgement of proven fact.
Originally posted by Loungerist
You're not going to use a taut string and then slice and sand a near mathematically perfect surface by hand. At least not with a human hand. The variances in pressure applied by one's arm alone would eventually lead to a lop-sided pyramid.
Originally posted by FallenOne
And what about the Crystal skulls found in Mexico? Weren't they found near the mexican pyramids?
Originally posted by FallenOne
Also...Has anyone heard of Joe Parr?
He did work on prymid shapes and found that whe nplaced on a centrifuge, they gain an impenetraable force feild (where gravity dissapears), and they fly off the centrifuge towards Orion (where the Galaxies gamma rays are emitted towards, since Orion is behind us if you draw a line from the center to Orion). That could be a possible link to why Orion was so important.
Also, anyone remember all the wierd stuff that happened with the Russian and Ukrainian pyramids? The the ions being emitted miles high, and people feeling weird inside of them and even passing out.
And what about the Crystal skulls found in Mexico? Weren't they found near the mexican pyramids?
Originally posted by Loungerist
I've seen pictures and according to archeologists who've studied it in person 16 ton stones were cut to a smooth precision of 1/100 of an inch deviation. They were placed 1/500 of an inch apart. However you describe it in practical terms that's uncanny.
There are all manner of theories for transport up the pyramid. But the fact remains you still have to initially lift the stone first in order to execute any of them. Subscribing to the ramp theory you still have to lift and put a stone outweighing an 18-wheeler onto it first. You then have to find a way to build a practical ramp since the schematics needed would lead to a ramp bigger than the pyramid itself. The spiral ramp theory has similar problems.
And these are very effective to certain weights. However,wheels and ramps are of little use when you cannot unearth the object you wish to transport with/on them.
Then there's the little matter of the ground supporting your apparatus once 40 tons hits it. There are weight restrictions of highways due in part because a vehicle over 40 tons has a good chance of literally sinking into the concrete. Some of the pyramid blocks are 70 tons and were moved across sand,not pavement.
Not to mention that according to archeologists wheeled vehicles did not exist in Egypt until well after the Great Pyramid was built.
Possibly no pulleys either.
And to my knowledge there is no evidence of any kinds of cranes and they are only speculation to explain the lifts.
I don't know when those glyphs were dated but if they're the ones I'm thinking of they are not depicting the construction of the pyramid. They are depicting some other presumably much later project.
Until you're faced with the prospect of having to set a 20 ton block into exact position once it's on the structure itself. And do so without leaving so much as a chip on it's surface.
And there's still the problem of the ramps being worn down or crushed by the weight as well unless,again,the ramps rival the pyramids for construction. And if they do,then where are they? Maybe this is where "water technology" comes in as I'm not sure what you mean. I only know that to date no technology has worked.
And that's really where the proof lies. In modern attempts we were forced to abandon the theories and resort to machines. We used machines as soon as we started in order to lift the blocks just to keep the project going.
But again,even if we assume these people were somehow robust enough to heft 40 ton blocks out of a quarry once cut,and even if we skip over the means of transport,we're still left with thousands of blocks cut to laser-like precision.
And you still have a 350 ft tunnel of virtually perfect dimension burrowed through pure bedrock at a precise angle in a straight line with deviation too slight to be percieved by the human eye.
Even if one hypothetically came up with a way to move these stones that actually worked in real life there are still many question marks. It seems to me that if something has proven to fail then the theory would be revised and adjusted accordingly. But here that doesn't seem to be the case.
Originally posted by thelibra
Okay, I'm going to need some credible links showing that these stones were too mathematically perfect to have possibly been worked by human hands. Because at this point, I believe you are either exagerating or are rehashing something you read off of someone's blog.
You've seen gravestones, right? Grave markers? There's a historical cemetary by our house that dates back almost 200 years. Whoever the richest buggers were got themselves a fine granite tombstone, and those things are still, to this day, smooth, glossy, and a perfect surface, with dates from the early 1800's (before the industrial revolution). Are you implying that these stones also had to come from aliens too?
How about all those beautiful stone statues across the world? How could any human being possibly have shaped stone so perfectly?
Give humans a little credit. Just because, in your opinion, we are not capable of extraordinary craftsmanship, doesn't mean it isn't possible.
The greatest artisans were usually the result of generations of father-to-son skills, tools, and secrets passed through the ages. A Pharoah, the people's living image of god, could quite easily command competition of the greatest artisans in the known civilized world. And to those greatest artisans, your words denigrating their ability to create something as simple and easy as a smooth surface would be a slap in the face and spittle at their feet. Ye Gods, man! Did you think that previous to hydraulic saws and lasers we were simply monkeys running around whacking things with sticks?
I can't take much more of this. Unless you
a.) Have credible proof that these blocks couldn't possibly be fashioned by human hands...
b.) Have enough of an engineering background to be able to understand both why and how it is entirely possible to move almost any weight using low-tech tools and materials.
c.) With said knowledge can still demonstrate mathematically how it is physically impossible for such to have been moved.
I've been demonstrating so far on how it's entirely possible, and so far, the only response I'm seeing is the equivolent of "nuh-uh!"
Give me some hard evidence on your viewpoint. Otherwise, trust people who have a bit more math in their background and a slightly better grasp of BCE technological ability. A statement such as "No, it's just not possible because it's too mathematically perfect" carries absolutely no water with me.
Originally posted by Byrd
Which sites and which archaeologists? I'm curious.
I'm curious why you think they have to be lifted anywhere. You can see these same primitive techniques (no modern tools) used elsewhere in the world today. Several statues on Easter Island were erected within the past 20 years, carved out of stone and smoothed by hand using stone tools and moved by very simple means of men and ropes.
Actually, the limestone and all was quarried out of cliff faces. No "unearthing."
And granite can be polished with ordinary sand.
Then there's the little matter of the ground supporting your apparatus once 40 tons hits it. There are weight restrictions of highways due in part because a vehicle over 40 tons has a good chance of literally sinking into the concrete. Some of the pyramid blocks are 70 tons and were moved across sand,not pavement.
Well, the stone was resting flat or on a series of rollers... not on 18 tires. Remember weight distribution from physics and how a large surface area distributes the load until it's much less. 40 tons wasn't being supported on a pencil-point sized area.
Not to mention that according to archeologists wheeled vehicles did not exist in Egypt until well after the Great Pyramid was built.
Very true. But log rollers did.
I'm curious... which ones are you referring to? The National Geographic one that I saw used only ancient technology.
But again,even if we assume these people were somehow robust enough to heft 40 ton blocks out of a quarry once cut,and even if we skip over the means of transport,we're still left with thousands of blocks cut to laser-like precision.
Not hard at all, with water and sand as a grinding material.
And you still have a 350 ft tunnel of virtually perfect dimension burrowed through pure bedrock at a precise angle in a straight line with deviation too slight to be percieved by the human eye.
I'm not sure why this is such an unusual feat. Mining and mining tunnels were common in ancient Egypt:
In fact, they were quarrying stone there as early as the Paleolithic, some 40,000 years ago
Ideas are revised as good data is found
None of this data suggests any miraculous or supernatural or extraterrestrial origin for the stones or anything else... just a lot of hard-working people very dedicated to a task.
Originally posted by Byrd
In defiance of all laws of physics? I find this very hard to believe. Could you give us a link, please?
Originally posted by Byrd
And I would also like to know how he determined where "Orion" was when he ran this experiment and which way the pyramid went. Depending on the time of year, Orion could have been in the night sky while he was doing this during the day, meaning that the pyramid would have zapped down through the ground into the center of the Earth... and hot magma would have emerged. I think we'd have heard about this.
Originally posted by Byrd
The only report similar to this (indeed, the only reports of Russian pyramids) that I find are in Pravda. Pravda is a tabloid and is about as truthful as The Onion.
Originally posted by Byrd
They're fakes. There's a number of threads around here that explain how we know they're fakes and who made them and who planted the story.
Originally posted by FallenOne
I got it from a book called, "The Complete Pyramid Sourcebook" by John DeSalvo. I have no idea on his credentials. In fact everything I posted was from that book.
Originally posted by Indellkoffer
However, I see that it's not a 1960's date and that the author is a For Real Scientist. Were these stories he was just reporting on (as in, "I talked with someone who claimed this") or was he actually speaking authoritatively about this. The reason I ask, is that he's sort of an oddball guy from what I'm reading, and I don't know quite what to make of him.