Is Bush The Anti-Christ? (from ATSNN)

Originally posted by redmage

Originally posted by masqua
It is the wolf in sheeps clothing who is the greatest danger. The one who is a destroyer while promoting peace. A liar and deceiver who would sacrifice his or her belief for personal gain, profiteering from death and misery.

I'm not saying he is the Antichrist but if I were to use your definition I'd definately agree he was.

Thank you for reading carefully what I had to say.

Would your description of a truly terrible antichrist, using benevolent heretics' biblical quotes as a measure, be made differently?

I am not responsible for Christians nor G.W. Bush because I am neither Christian nor American citizen. I am only saying what I believe would be the worst kind of antichrist: one who, while wrapped in a cloak of Christian piety would contrive to destroy millions and benefit from their loss.

OBL fits that bill as well, except he's no Christian. He does wear a peaceful religion as "sheeps clothing' while conniving to murder millions. Same deal, right? But, at least OBL does not try to deceive us with smiles, kisses and candies.

If Americans think that G.W. Bush (or Cheney ) is a fit for the description, then it is their duty to stop him. If they do not, that is also their choice to make. It certainly would not be up to any citizen of another country, unless that country was directly attacked. They are then forced to act in self preservation and faith is secondary to incoming bullets, imho.

The reason I do not see G.W. Bush as an antichrist is that I don't believe he is entirely responsible for his actions. He seems to be reacting to 911 in an honest attempt to forestall any other terrorist attack. There may be those around him who whisper things in his ear, and, because he wishes only to protect his country, he may act on their bad advice.

Perhaps it is Cheney, or Rummy...or the Pat Robertsons who rail against anything unChristian, that sets his course of action?

I see G.W. Bush during his speeches and look in his eyes. I see a genuinely nice, but frightened man, putting on a brave front. I don't see purposeful malice in him, I really don't.

But, who is in the shadows...?

If Americans think that G.W. Bush (or Cheney ) is a fit for the description, then it is their duty to stop him. If they do not, that is also their choice to make.

If the people in the US say they have to stop George Bush because he is the supposed anti Christ I will die of astonishment, with a look on my face that says WTF?

masqua, if your trying to "take an impartial view", consider what you are saying.

Do you really think anyone in Bush's staff is a spawn of satan, LITERALLY?


I see a bush hater and nothing more.

Interesting thread. One link you all should check out is this:

www.bushisantichrist.com...

Long but worth checking out and does shed some light on a few things.

Sasqua, when you say:

"The reason I do not see G.W. Bush as an antichrist is that I don't believe he is entirely responsible for his actions. He seems to be reacting to 911 in an honest attempt to forestall any other terrorist attack. There may be those around him who whisper things in his ear, and, because he wishes only to protect his country, he may act on their bad advice. "

Trying to make it sound that bush is innocent and only acting on 'bad advice'? I'm sorry but that's just silly. Have you guys considered that bush was complicit concerning 911? The bush family as a whole is shady and corrupt. I fear the connections to the engineering of 911 go FAR deeper into our governement and upper echelon elite than -any- of you could ever imagine. There are threads on this all over the place. (Some I have posted as well) Look them up.

Back to the subject at hand.. Is bush antichrist? Sure wouldn't surprise me. The afformentioned link is a good place to start. Look it up and keep an open mind.


I've posted this before but going futher.. Check this out..

www.theforbiddenknowledge.com...

A long read and deep but it really sheds some light on Bible prophecy and how God judges and deals with iniquity. (And nations that have turned their back on Him) Maybe bush is telling the truth when he says "God is speaking through me". Just not in the way he would like. In the Bible God uses -both- the just and the unjust (evil) to serve his greater (often incomprehensible) purposes. God uses evil for the benefit of mankind. Unfortunately for bush however, after he's done serving his "purpose", he's not going to like what's going to happen to him on judgement day. Bottom line? Just like hitler, the antichrist will rise in deception and the majority of people will not realize it until it is too late. I've been beating this drum on here for quite awhile now and no one seems to get it.. why?? Are you guys really that dense? Reqardless of whether or not bush is really the antichrist or if we are truly the "last" generation to live, you all need to become spritually aware and see bush for what he really is.




[edit on 12-10-2005 by TxSecret]

i can not imagine that Bush is THE anti-christ (if there is truely one single antichrist) Bush is a puppet... and before you start screaming cheney, remember that cheney is too, and if you dont understand that, then your not a very good conspiracy theorist.

as for the fact that the KJV doesnt mention an specific single person as being the anti-christ, considering how much King James had the bible altered, (partly to aid in his fight against the vatican when he was pressured to turn over the knights templar, and partly to aid in his fight against celtic druids in ireland). i dont think it can be taken on it's word.. and again, if you dont know how badly the KJV has been tampered with, then your not a very good conspiracy theorist.

That having been said, i checked the quotes from 1 john (from my english standard version "ESV" [which emphasises straight translation from hebrew]), and "The" does appear, but only in half of the mentioned verses.

Now someone here said "the only true church of christ, is the catholic church"... are you high? the catholics have been abusing the book and the word since it's inception, every crusade was in contradiction to Yeshua's (Jesus's) "parable of the weeds", as was the inquisitions.. and if really know your scripture, then you know that the catholic church is the "symbol of roman idolatry" that Yeshua warned about in the abomination of desolation.

oh hey and since we are on the subject.. "Christ" isnt even a hebrew word.. its old english taken from the greek word Christos, which is a poooooor translation from the hebrew word for messiah, which isnt messiah btw.

Now onto the 666... Delta, who are these biblical scholars for whom you speak of? i have heard nothing of the 616.. other then the michigan area code. from what i have read, 666 is a numerological reference to those whose minds and souls are linked to their physical desires (sin) and are unable to find any sort of true enlightenment, while the 144,000 of the "saved" are those who have attained enlightenment, both numbers are "vibrations" of the number 9, which is the number of completion. meaning that you are either completly saved (144,000) or comepletly damned (666)

ok i think that should incite enough chaos on this thread

Originally posted by Becon of Light

Now onto the 666... Delta, who are these biblical scholars for whom you speak of? i have heard nothing of the 616.. other then the michigan area code. from what i have read, 666 is a numerological reference to those whose minds and souls are linked to their physical desires (sin) and are unable to find any sort of true enlightenment, while the 144,000 of the "saved" are those who have attained enlightenment, both numbers are "vibrations" of the number 9, which is the number of completion. meaning that you are either completly saved (144,000) or comepletly damned (666)

"In May 2005 it was reported that scholars at Oxford University using advanced imaging techniques had been able to read previously illegible portions of an early (third century) version of the Book of Revelation, part of its Oxyrhynchus collection of papyri. The fragment gives the Number of the Beast as 616. Scholars now believe the number in question has very little to do with the devil. It was actually a complicated numerical riddle in Greek, meant to represent someone's name. "It's a number puzzle -- the majority opinion seems to be that it refers to [the Roman emperor] Nero." - source

I'm going to have to lean with the scholars at Oxford on this one.

trust Oxford? yea.. you do that

the Bible is was written in hebrew, then translated.. POORLY, to greek. so dont tell me about some number found on a greek parchment.

Next your gonna tell me that buddha wrote in ancient egyptian

Actually it was written in Aramaic, Greek, and Hebrew. I believe, without bothering to look it up that some of the Hebrew books of the Torah even came from other dialects originally, such as the book of Job, which supposedly came from a story of eastern descent.

Rev. 13: 1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.
10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

The scriptures quoted above are about the Anti-christ & the False Prophet... I do not believe that Bush is the Anti-christ, but I do believe there is a VERY good possibility that he IS the False Prophet.
While it maybe true the bible doesn't say "THE anti-christ", it is certain that the bible does speak of a "beast" who will rise up & rule the earth for a short period of time, he will do this with another "beast" who is his "enforcer"... I believe that Bush is this enforcer, Bush fits the description of the False Prophet much better than that of the Anti-Christ
Bush is the leader of the American "christian" church, he is the leader of the greatest military power in the world & he has the power to bring fire down from heaven. He claims to be a christian(two horns like a lamb) but he promotes death & destruction(spake as a dragon) as the self-proclaimed War President.
Anti-christ OR False Prophet one thing is for certain Bush is NOT what he claims to be because there is nothing "christian/Christ-like" about him.

Originally posted by Raideur
masqua, if your trying to "take an impartial view", consider what you are saying.

Do you really think anyone in Bush's staff is a spawn of satan, LITERALLY?


I see a bush hater and nothing more.

I've already stated that I am not a Christian. To me, Jesus of Nazareth lived and taught religious doctrine, but he was not a direct descendent of the Creator. Nor do I believe in Satan.

That said, G.W. Bush, including his staff, are humans as well, but they are capable of being perceived as 'The AntiChrist' by future generations of Christians if they become responsible for genocide, war profiteering and the like.

If I put on the mantle of my faith, like OBL, twisting the peaceful tenets of his faith in order to do mischief, then I would also be guilty of the same thing...antichrist/antimuslim/antiwhatever. A wolf in sheeps clothing.

As to the accusation (to me) of 'Bush hater' you end with, perhaps you might be better off to sling that elsewhere than in my direction. I don't hate anyone.

I dislike politics, but it is needed to give a nation a voice. I particularly dislike crooked polititians, who lie, cheat, pork barrel and basically feed from the public purse to gargantuan proportions. Key word is 'dislike'. I'll reserve 'hate' for whatever I must destroy for self preservation and the safety of my family.

In Canada, Raideur, there are polititians aplenty which I dislike, especially when their greed and stupidity seems to be tearing my nation apart. As a Canadian, it is up to me to do my part to try to keep this nation together. I don't need to go South of the border and start wagging my tongue at American politicians...that's up to Americans.

My only concern is how American politics affect Canada, or other countries who have us as friends...that, I will discuss.

Bush hater? Naw...the government behind the man just scares me a little more than usual.

Originally posted by Becon of Light
as for the fact that the KJV doesnt mention an specific single person as being the anti-christ, considering how much King James had the bible altered, (partly to aid in his fight against the vatican when he was pressured to turn over the knights templar, and partly to aid in his fight against celtic druids in ireland). i dont think it can be taken on it's word.. and again, if you dont know how badly the KJV has been tampered with, then your not a very good conspiracy theorist.

Maybe I'm wrong but from what I understand, KJV is around 90% accurate unlike a LOT of the other translations, not the NKJV the older one. The person that told this to me has become spiritually enlightened and prefers not read any text that has tampered with the word of the Lord. I'm not going to say that KJV is better than all other Bibles (many do) because although the correct translation is important you cannot fully understand the text with your carnal mind anyway, you must have the spirit of Christ upon you.

As for the 666/616 debate, all I know is that 6 is the number of MAN, and that 666 was supposed to be the mark of the beast or the number of Satan, I really couldn't say how they tie together but makes sense that it was 666 to me.

I really cant believe that Bush is "the" Antichrist or the false prophet despite the many similarities, from what I gather in the end times when these biblical figures appear, the world will be a very different place, we are in store for a LOT worse than Bush...just wait.

[edit on 10/12/2005 by JKersteJr]

Maybe I'm wrong but from what I understand, KJV is around 90% accurate unlike a LOT of the other translations

Could you give sources on this? not to be argumentive about it, but from what i have read. james had the book altered to suit his politcal needs.

those needs being 1) rally british support against the vatican who was pressuring him to turn over the remniant of the knights templar, who had found refuge in scotland and northern england after they had been excummincated for herisey and witchcraft

2) to rally the newly formed protestant church to his cause against the pagans of ireland (yes i know.. how can he protect the witches of the templar, and fight the witches of ireland?? CAUSE HE IS KING, thats how)

now wether or not that is true, there are other things to be considered.. like the fact that the KJV is translated from latin, which was in turn translated from greek, which was translated from hebrew

and if the KJV is so accurate, why is the word lucifer in it? there is no word in hebrew for the word lucifer, it is a purely latin construct. and in the places where it appears in the KJV and bibles based off it, it doesnt make any sense as to what is being stated

AND, lets not forget the fact that the KJV is the birthplace of the word "jesus", dont know if you know this.. but jesus wasnt his name.. it was Yeshua.

Jesus is a tranliteration, of a translation. it was taken from the greek translation of the name Yeshua, and then pheneticlly spelt in english (J in old english is the same sound as the modern Y, which is why J sits next to I in the alphabet)

Mod Edit: Fixed Quote Tags.

[edit on 12/10/2005 by Mirthful Me]

No doubt there are small mistranslations, and maybe some made up names, but I haven't heard or read about any intentional tampering with it before in an attempt to somehow skew the actual story.

I guess what I'm saying is I dont see any real evidence that suggests the KJV to be so inaccurate that you cant get the basics out of it. I know someone who has read it several times, and while he knows there are still flaws in it, I ASSURE you he is a changed man and knows what he is talking about when it comes to the Lord and Spirituality, more than any person I have ever in my life met before...just from reading the Bible with a concordance and some other minor materials.

Your right, the basics of the book are pretty tight from version to version, and the KJV isnt totally corrupted.
but it has been tampered with, dont know if you know this, but the bible is suppose to be encoded with alot stuff that is hidden using ancient qabalistic codes, codes which are worthless if the words have been altered, this is suppose to be especially true of the old testament, specificlly the first 5 books, which are also the books of the Torah..
hold on, i will grab my book and look it up... Yes here it is, the Gematria, the Notariqon, and the Temurah. (You can look these up in Aleister Crowley's "liber LVII [48], An Essay upon Numbers" which is available on PDF, for free no less.. if you know where to look :-p )

now i dont know ancient hebrew, and only have a modern hebrew dictionary, so i can nether confirm or deny this, but crowley knew his bussiness, and i am willing to bet that he would not risk his rep by printing alot of fluff and falsehood, say what you want about the man, but he prided himself on "not needing" to lie to people.. he felt the truth was much more fun.

And if you are interested in liber LVII, or other works of his, you can find a large collection of them on limewire.. and will likely be on kazaa or what ever you use, if your not comfortable with that, then search the web and you will find them, they are public domain and you should be able to find it for free

And on that note, i will not make further comment on the validity of any version of the bible on this thread as it is a thread about bush being the anti-christ and not about the tampering of the good book.. and yes it is a good book, just dont take it to literally

[edit on 13-10-2005 by Becon of Light]

What is wrong with you people if bush is the Anti-Christ then Im Donald Trump. Just because you don't like what Bush is doing it doesn't give you the right to call him the anti-christ if Kerry won the election he'd proply pee his pance when katrina came aloing. Besides that Bush is a very Religious christain guy. Think first before you start a thread like this get your facts strait. I back bush 100% our courty has benifited from him after what a wreck Clinton was being a stoner and what not I'm glad that we have some one who knows what they're doing.

ok once again, i do not think that Bush is the beast, but that having been said.. revelations says the beast will be very loud in proclaiming himself to be christian.

Regardless of that, who are you to say that bush is such a great christian? do you have the power to see into another mans soul? can you look into his heart and proclaim before God and Man that G.W.Bush is really the good christian boy he claims to be? no you cant.. so dont even try to tell me you can.

All you base your proclimation of his faith on his what he has said, and that he attends church services. well.. he doesnt have the greatest track record with regard to all that comes out of his mouth, and if he wasnt chrstian, he could say he was all day and no one could really prove otherwise.

As for attending church services.. i dont know of anyone who attends more regular services then priests do... PRIESTS.. you remember.. those guys for whom we make jokes of lil boy touching about. So dont waste your energy trying to tell us who is or isnt a good christian... Pat Robertson is supposedly a good christian

Oh and Geek.. if you knew your history, you would know that Bush was fairly well known for his partying, amung other things he was said to have a taste for coc aine.. so dont bash clinton for smoking some weed when your boy was sucking up the nose candy

[edit on 14-10-2005 by Becon of Light]

This is a good question with many implications. It could be anyone who is in a or holds a powerfull position in govt. or scoicety. It is really impossible to know for sure. I would look for the antichrist to come out of the U.K. I believe the Bible makes a reference to this question, but I do not recall the Book of which it is in. IMHO, when he comes a lot of feces is going to hit the fan. I would look for him to really be getting his game on when Isreal has it's back to the wall and it appears it is going to be wiped from the face of the earth. I just hope I do not see it in my lifetime but the signs are really starting to add up. The hurricane that hit the Gulf Coast, the recent earthquake in on of those 'stans, and the great flooding happening all around the world.

Where did this rise in mumbo-jumbo like the Rapture and the ant-christ come about in the US? For us Europeans, either secular or religious, it is all quite baffling and slightly scary (you guys have got a lot more guns than anyone else).

Did you watch the Omen series too much when you were kids, have nightmares about it, get all muddled and somehow come to think that it was a documentary or something?

As for attributing super-human powers to Bush: ah come on, he has trouble finding the sofa in his own living room.

Truth is Luke, most americans have a great interest in such things.. but in the land where church and state are seperate, the athiest is king, and it is difficult to have such conversations without tweaking one of them out.. if you have watched american news much as of late, you might know that a man in california sued the state to have "one nation, under god" removed from our pledge of allegiance.

but the truth of the matter is, that even all this debate was part of the prophesy. did not Yeshua (jesus) say that there will be those who do not claim to be of his church, but know his word better then those who do make the claim. as one who does not claim to be a christian, but a student of his words, i know this to often be true (Now dont all you christians get in a huff, i know alot of you know your stuff).

Personally, i think all this is very good.. debate inspires thought, thought leads to observation and investigation. Observation and Investigation are two things sorely lacking in the average american's thought proccess (I say that AS an american). Personally, i dont care what anyone belives.. so long as their beliefs are based on their own thoughts and research... nothing makes me crazier then to hear someone say "Well i was raised to belive..."
yea.. and the hitler youth was raised to belive that Adolph would lead them to a perfect world on blond haired blue eyes supermen.. so dont count on what you were raised to belive

Come on guys Bush is pretty down to Earth haven't you seen how well he treated the hurricane. Clinton Heck if he were still president things would be worse down there. You guys are wrapped up in hating bush that you are to blind to see the truth.Bush is a good man. One more thing what evidence do you have that bush was doing the nose candy after all beacon you accursed me of the same thing and I still don't like Clinton The only reason we didn't find weapons in Iraq was because little old Sodom had enough time to move it to a new location I'm guessing maybe Syria or some were out of the county besides that we gained an allie out of the hole Iraqi deal.

[edit on 15-10-2005 by geekboy]